Rumor: Cleveland Trade / Shawn Marion

[NoraG1]

If they get Marion, they'll be real scary.

I don't think they will be any scarier then they are now. I think Marion is a good rebounder and a pretty good defender but alot of teams made 'upgrades' this year and it has not necessarily made them better.

[greg683x]

If they get Marion, they'll be real scary.

I don't think they will be any scarier then they are now. I think Marion is a good rebounder and a pretty good defender but alot of teams made 'upgrades' this year and it has not necessarily made them better.

True, but a lot of the teams that made those upgrades, already had noticiable flaws to begin with.  Philly got Brand, but has no outside shooting.  Houston got Artest, but still if someone sneezes half the team is injured.  You can make an arguement about Detriot, but the benefits of that move dont come right now, they come when AI's contract comes off the books.

[NoraG1]

From RealGM headlines: Multiple team sources have told Brian Windhorst of the Plain Dealer that the Cavaliers and Heat have not discussed a Shawn Marion trade.

[cordobes]

I think the Cap situation is worth noting in regards to this trade.  If the Cavs give up Wallys expiring deal and Varejeo for Marion and they dont win a title this year, whos to say that Marion would actually resign with Cleveland after this year?  Or if they could even afford him?  So theyd lose Marion, Varejeo, and their expiring contracts, what would that leave for the 2009 season?  Unless they could make some HUGE slam dunk deal in the 2009 offseason to fix the loss, they could actually have regressed as a team going into Lebrons free agency.  Which would probably all but sign his ticket out of Cleveland.
(...)

But the same can be asked about Varejão. If he keeps playing like this, he'll probably opt out.

Very true, so if youre going to make a trade, wouldnt you want to make one thats not going to put you back in the same position?  Cleveland could possibly get a player thats as good as Marion, and STILL be able to keep Varejao for the remainder of the season at the very least.

In the current deal, they could have lost all three players by the time next year rolls around.  If they get a player who is at least under contract until 2010, even if they couldnt resign Varejao this offseason, they still got something to show for Wally expiring deal.

Well, everything is possible, but who? A player as good as Marion just for Wally's expiring? I doubt it. And I don't think that's it's a sure thing they'll have more chances of re-signing Varejão than Marion.

[Schupac]

Greg683x - Roy Hobbs beat me to the quotes (Cheers, Roy!).  And I want to reiterate I'm not taking away from Marion's ability.  He can play 4 positions and he brings a very unique skillset to the game.

But I lived in Phoenix in the time leading up to his leaving, and the local papers often jabbed at him (often unfairly, but with a basis in reality) for his attitude.  A lot of people think, if not for the Suns being absolutely ROBBED (in my humble, and correct opinion) by the referees in that San Antonio series a few years back, they would have gone on to win it all.  The ring would've kept Marion quiet and maybe Shaq would still be in Miami, and Phoenix might have a pair of rings.

But ultimately, his bickering in the locker room was the catalyst that killed the fun suns and gave us the new suns.  And I can't seem him succeeding in a situation like in Cleveland where not only would he be asked to fit himself into a system that revolves around one player, but he'd be doing it in a market less loving than Phoenix, in a region less pleasant to live in (I live in Ohio now... my lord I miss Arizona), and for a team that is under constant media scrutiny.  Or rather, one player is.

It takes a special kind of athlete to be able to thrive as the second star in an environment where they know they aren't it.  These guys have spent their lives being the Alpha dogs.  It's different for a career role player, they grow into that position.  I think that's part of what has made Cleveland's road so difficult, and their front offices job so hard.  And it's why they still do not have a defacto #2.

Just my 14 cents.

[greg683x]

Well, everything is possible, but who? A player as good as Marion just for Wally's expiring? I doubt it. And I don't think that's it's a sure thing they'll have more chances of re-signing Varejão than Marion.

I doubt that theyll be able to find a player as good as Marion for just Wallys deal also, I was just illustrating the fact that its early and who knows what might come up later on in the season when some teams fail to meet expectations and thee ahem stuff hits the fan.

And Youre also right about the chances of resigning Varejao as compared to Marion, but again, like I was saying, if they couldnt resign Varejao, its better to lose him and have a quality player you got from Wallys deal, instead of losing Wally and Varejao....and then turning around and losing Marion in the offseason.

Like you said everythings possible.  I guess when it comes down to it, my point is I think it would be too early to make a move like this if I'm Cleveland.  I'd at least wait until they play a tougher part of their schedule and see how they hold up.....and I'm sure thats what theyre going to do, if this deal is gonna happen, its not gonna be tomorrow, so we're all taking this and running way too far with it, including myself.

[greg683x]

Greg683x - Roy Hobbs beat me to the quotes (Cheers, Roy!).  And I want to reiterate I'm not taking away from Marion's ability.  He can play 4 positions and he brings a very unique skillset to the game.

But I lived in Phoenix in the time leading up to his leaving, and the local papers often jabbed at him (often unfairly, but with a basis in reality) for his attitude.  A lot of people think, if not for the Suns being absolutely ROBBED (in my humble, and correct opinion) by the referees in that San Antonio series a few years back, they would have gone on to win it all.  The ring would've kept Marion quiet and maybe Shaq would still be in Miami, and Phoenix might have a pair of rings.

But ultimately, his bickering in the locker room was the catalyst that killed the fun suns and gave us the new suns.  And I can't seem him succeeding in a situation like in Cleveland where not only would he be asked to fit himself into a system that revolves around one player, but he'd be doing it in a market less loving than Phoenix, in a region less pleasant to live in (I live in Ohio now... my lord I miss Arizona), and for a team that is under constant media scrutiny.  Or rather, one player is.

It takes a special kind of athlete to be able to thrive as the second star in an environment where they know they aren't it.  These guys have spent their lives being the Alpha dogs.  It's different for a career role player, they grow into that position.  I think that's part of what has made Cleveland's road so difficult, and their front offices job so hard.  And it's why they still do not have a defacto #2.

Just my 14 cents.

Thanks for the info man.  I really didnt know it was that deep in regards to Marion in Phoenix.  I tend to pay a looooot more attention to what goes on in the East than in the West.

TP for the piece of mind.

[Gomesfan]

Real Gm is now saying that "sources" are saying this rumor is untrue.
http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/56033/20081216/report_marion_trade_rumor_not_true/
This may meen it is actually true, who knows?

[thedawg]

Why are you guys all so worried about other teams?  I think the reason Celtics are so good is because they are so good, not other teams bad!  I really don´t care what Cleveland does as long as we keep up what we are good at, playing basketball and beating teams. 

PS:  I do not rule out LeBron for Celtics in 2010.

[Schupac]

Greg683x - Roy Hobbs beat me to the quotes (Cheers, Roy!).  And I want to reiterate I'm not taking away from Marion's ability.  He can play 4 positions and he brings a very unique skillset to the game.

But I lived in Phoenix in the time leading up to his leaving, and the local papers often jabbed at him (often unfairly, but with a basis in reality) for his attitude.  A lot of people think, if not for the Suns being absolutely ROBBED (in my humble, and correct opinion) by the referees in that San Antonio series a few years back, they would have gone on to win it all.  The ring would've kept Marion quiet and maybe Shaq would still be in Miami, and Phoenix might have a pair of rings.

But ultimately, his bickering in the locker room was the catalyst that killed the fun suns and gave us the new suns.  And I can't seem him succeeding in a situation like in Cleveland where not only would he be asked to fit himself into a system that revolves around one player, but he'd be doing it in a market less loving than Phoenix, in a region less pleasant to live in (I live in Ohio now... my lord I miss Arizona), and for a team that is under constant media scrutiny.  Or rather, one player is.

It takes a special kind of athlete to be able to thrive as the second star in an environment where they know they aren't it.  These guys have spent their lives being the Alpha dogs.  It's different for a career role player, they grow into that position.  I think that's part of what has made Cleveland's road so difficult, and their front offices job so hard.  And it's why they still do not have a defacto #2.

Just my 14 cents.

Thanks for the info man.  I really didnt know it was that deep in regards to Marion in Phoenix.  I tend to pay a looooot more attention to what goes on in the East than in the West.

TP for the piece of mind.

Hey, right back at you for some intelligent contributions.  And of course, I have no firsthand knowledge.  Only what I read.

[FanInTheSouth]

Well, everything is possible, but who? A player as good as Marion just for Wally's expiring? I doubt it. And I don't think that's it's a sure thing they'll have more chances of re-signing Varejão than Marion.

I doubt that theyll be able to find a player as good as Marion for just Wallys deal also, I was just illustrating the fact that its early and who knows what might come up later on in the season when some teams fail to meet expectations and thee ahem stuff hits the fan.

And Youre also right about the chances of resigning Varejao as compared to Marion, but again, like I was saying, if they couldnt resign Varejao, its better to lose him and have a quality player you got from Wallys deal, instead of losing Wally and Varejao....and then turning around and losing Marion in the offseason.

Like you said everythings possible.  I guess when it comes down to it, my point is I think it would be too early to make a move like this if I'm Cleveland.  I'd at least wait until they play a tougher part of their schedule and see how they hold up.....and I'm sure thats what theyre going to do, if this deal is gonna happen, its not gonna be tomorrow, so we're all taking this and running way too far with it, including myself.

Good points.  It would be awfully stupid to make a move now for Marion instead of waiting to see what came available at the trade deadline.  You never know what you can get, just ask the Lakers.

[cordobes]

Well, everything is possible, but who? A player as good as Marion just for Wally's expiring? I doubt it. And I don't think that's it's a sure thing they'll have more chances of re-signing Varejão than Marion.

I doubt that theyll be able to find a player as good as Marion for just Wallys deal also, I was just illustrating the fact that its early and who knows what might come up later on in the season when some teams fail to meet expectations and thee ahem stuff hits the fan.

And Youre also right about the chances of resigning Varejao as compared to Marion, but again, like I was saying, if they couldnt resign Varejao, its better to lose him and have a quality player you got from Wallys deal, instead of losing Wally and Varejao....and then turning around and losing Marion in the offseason.

Like you said everythings possible.  I guess when it comes down to it, my point is I think it would be too early to make a move like this if I'm Cleveland.  I'd at least wait until they play a tougher part of their schedule and see how they hold up.....and I'm sure thats what theyre going to do, if this deal is gonna happen, its not gonna be tomorrow, so we're all taking this and running way too far with it, including myself.

Yeah, I don't disagree, but what if they miss the opportunity now and nothing remotely as good appears later? It's not like they're in a bad situation now and need to make a move, very far from it, but I think that Wally's expiring alone won't bring them a starter at any point during the season. Maybe someone like Mike Miller, but in that case they'd need to eat some bad salaries as well, Brian Cardinal or something. Redd, if the Bucks go south? The expiring won't be enough and he isn't a good fit. Jackson? Not enough and it's difficult to make salaries work. I think it's going to be  Of course, they can always put together a package of Wally+West+Varejao+Hickson+picks to get a better player, but I'm not also sure that they'll get a much better player than Marion. The Memphis/LAL trade was a very odd situation that doesn't happen frequently and LAL didn't send only Brown's expiring. Yeah, they can wait, but I guess they won't be making the length of the contract of the player acquired a very important aspect.