Rajon Rondo = BJ Armstrong.

[Truck Lewis]

defense wins championships.....see steve nash's ringless fingers

[zerophase]

rondo still needs to make that jumpshot consistent. he doesn't need practice shooting, he needs to train with a shooting coach to change his form. next he needs to learn how to finish layups. he needs to learn a thing or two from tony allen about finishing around the basket.

[BballTim]

rondo still needs to make that jumpshot consistent. he doesn't need practice shooting, he needs to train with a shooting coach to change his form. next he needs to learn how to finish layups. he needs to learn a thing or two from tony allen about finishing around the basket.

  According to 82games Rondo's finishing much better around the basket than TA (or most of the other Celts).

[Sweet17]

According to 82games Rondo's finishing much better around the basket than TA (or most of the other Celts).

Yeah except Rondo passes up more layups then any guard in the league. Being scared to shoot doesn't make you a good shooter.

[BballTim]

According to 82games Rondo's finishing much better around the basket than TA (or most of the other Celts).

Yeah except Rondo passes up more layups then any guard in the league. Being scared to shoot doesn't make you a good shooter.

  Passing up some shots doesn't make you a poor shooter either.

  A lot of the time Rondo enters the lane intending to pass and then does so. That doesn't necessarily mean that he passed up a layup or he's afraid to shoot. Drawing defenders and passing to an open player is, in some circles, acceptable play from a point guard.

[Sweet17]

A lot of the time Rondo enters the lane intending to pass and then does so. That doesn't necessarily mean that he passed up a layup or he's afraid to shoot. Drawing defenders and passing to an open player is, in some circles, acceptable play from a point guard.

Listen we can play the word games but you and I both know Rondo passes up alot of makeable shots - and those guys he dishes to on the outside are often covered. The bad Rondo does alot of that. He becomes tenative - and passes up a ton of shots.

I have said it before and I will say it again - for someone with his length and his supposed athleticism he is pretty poor finisher around the hoop. He tends to long jump rather then high jump. If you watched a guy like Derrick Rose for just a few games you would quickly see what I am talking about.

That statistic you quoted is garbage and you know it. House's "close" percentage is  87.5 percent. Does that make House the best finisher in the game? No. Anyone with a brain in his head knows House just takes gimmee layups around the hoop.

"Bad" Rondo is a classic scared to shoot PG. He only takes very easy shots - and passes up everything but bunnies. This skews his statistics badly. The good confident aggressive Rondo is better - but he still doesn't finish that well. He sometimes just kinda chucks the ball up at the basket.

Pete

[Atzar]

He doesn't have a left hand around the basket.  If you watch him, he tries to finish everything with his right, resulting in a lot of awkward-looking dives to try to get the ball over the rim.  He wouldnt hit the ground half as hard when he's fouled if he learned to finish with his left hand on the left side of the bucket - using that right just opens him up completely.

Either way, it's good to see him being aggressive again.  This version of Rondo won't be an All-Star - not without a jumpshot and better FT% - but it's still one of the better PG's in this league.

[ThreadCrasher]

A lot of the time Rondo enters the lane intending to pass and then does so. That doesn't necessarily mean that he passed up a layup or he's afraid to shoot. Drawing defenders and passing to an open player is, in some circles, acceptable play from a point guard.

Listen we can play the word games but you and I both know Rondo passes up alot of makeable shots - and those guys he dishes to on the outside are often covered. The bad Rondo does alot of that. He becomes tenative - and passes up a ton of shots.

I have said it before and I will say it again - for someone with his length and his supposed athleticism he is pretty poor finisher around the hoop. He tends to long jump rather then high jump. If you watched a guy like Derrick Rose for just a few games you would quickly see what I am talking about.

That statistic you quoted is garbage and you know it. House's "close" percentage is  87.5 percent. Does that make House the best finisher in the game? No. Anyone with a brain in his head knows House just takes gimmee layups around the hoop.

"Bad" Rondo is a classic scared to shoot PG. He only takes very easy shots - and passes up everything but bunnies. This skews his statistics badly. The good confident aggressive Rondo is better - but he still doesn't finish that well. He sometimes just kinda chucks the ball up at the basket.

Pete

I would venture that if Rondo played on the Bulls he would take more shots, and if Rose played on the C's he'd pass up more shots...

Although, I don't mean to invalidate your entire point, rather to point out that I think calling him 'tentative' as a player is not quite fair.  I think he has handled the situation of being a point guard on this team (with the expectations of last season, 3 HOF's, etc) well.

[nickagneta]

I agree with Sweet17's assessment of Rondo. He long jumps instead of high jumps and jumps way too often when passing out of the lane without the jump is better suited. He is tremendously tentative shooting and even taking the lay in, being way too unselfish.

However, the last three games have seen a very different Rondo. I hope he continues the way he has because his decision making and finishing has greatly improved during that time period and the tentativeness regarding his shot has subsided greatly.

I do feel though if he continues on this path and practices his finishing more he will be an excellent drive and dish PG on the offensive end. Let's not forget he is only 22 and is playing with three HOF players that in his mind he knows he has to get the ball to.

[BballTim]

A lot of the time Rondo enters the lane intending to pass and then does so. That doesn't necessarily mean that he passed up a layup or he's afraid to shoot. Drawing defenders and passing to an open player is, in some circles, acceptable play from a point guard.

Listen we can play the word games but you and I both know Rondo passes up alot of makeable shots - and those guys he dishes to on the outside are often covered. The bad Rondo does alot of that. He becomes tenative - and passes up a ton of shots.

  No, we both know that when he passes out from the lane the player he passes to is generally open. The fact that you've never been a fan of his affects your view of his play.

I have said it before and I will say it again - for someone with his length and his supposed athleticism he is pretty poor finisher around the hoop. He tends to long jump rather then high jump. If you watched a guy like Derrick Rose for just a few games you would quickly see what I am talking about.

  Rondo makes more of his inside shots than Rose and he also gets fouled on more of his shots.

That statistic you quoted is garbage and you know it. House's "close" percentage is  87.5 percent. Does that make House the best finisher in the game? No. Anyone with a brain in his head knows House just takes gimmee layups around the hoop.

  Is the stat supposed to be garbage because it screws up your "Rondo can't finish" point or because you can find a single player who rarely takes inside shots with skewed results? Are you trying to say that Rondo just takes gimme layups around the hoop? He takes more than 1/2 his shots from the inside mainly in traffic and makes a high percentage of them.

"Bad" Rondo is a classic scared to shoot PG. He only takes very easy shots - and passes up everything but bunnies. This skews his statistics badly. The good confident aggressive Rondo is better - but he still doesn't finish that well. He sometimes just kinda chucks the ball up at the basket.

Pete

  Are you trying to say that he has a higher shooting percentage when he's not playing aggressively? Because that's ridiculous. I don't think that the 5-25 stretch in the 4 games before his aggressiveness reappeared badly skewed his statistics upward. And have you considered that some of his "bad" stretches are injury related? Aside from the beating he takes on some of his drives I thought he twisted his ankle during one of the earlier games. Others in this thread have noted that he's been lacking some of his explosiveness. If he starts off the season playing well, has a few bad games and then starts playing well again the answer isn't necessarily jeckyl and hyde.

[winsomme]

Rondo does not only take easy lay-ups. that is just not right. have you seen some his crazy drives and finishes lately?

i agree that he still is battling to know when to actually try to finish a drive as opposed to pass off. and i also agree that he sometimes leaves his feet too early, thus not taking full advantage of his athleticism...

but to claim that Rondo "..only takes very easy shots - and passes up everything but bunnies..." is just not accurate.

he is capable of (and is making) crazy hard shots finishing off drives into the lane. he just needs to continue to build the confidence to do it on a more regular basis...in order to keep the D honest.

that said, he is a pass-first PG and that is one of the main reasons that he is the right PG for this team.

Derrick Rose is a scoring PG. and while he has a better scoring knack than Rondo, I'm not sure  how exactly this relates to Rondo.

[rondilla]

I haven't been able to post for a few days, so I have a few points to go over:

1. Fact - Rondo leads the Celtics in "Points in the Paint".

2. Fact - Rondo's "Inside" shooting percentage is .712.

Considering what those two facts, to say that he isn't taking enough shots inside (especially as of late), or that he isn't finishing well is pretty much a crock. Considering what's gone one of late, I expect that his inside scoring will continue to rise, though I doubt that he'll be able to to keep up the 70% plus inside. Who can when taking over 50% of their shots in there?

3. The team's offensive efficiency ranking has jumped from 27th in the league to 17th based upon the last 4 games. If we keep on playing this way the top 10 isn't far off. The major difference? Rondo.

4. It was claimed by a person here that if Rondo handled the ball more that he would be less efficient. Over the last five games (which actually includes a game BEFORE he was given the keys by Doc, his total efficiency ranking has been 16th amongst all guards and 8th amongts point guards.

This is actually misleading, though, as he has been sitting out most of the fourth quarters of games because we have been smashing up the other teams so thoroughly. His per 48 mark is 7th amongst all guards (with any real playing time), and 4th amongst point guards. The guys ahead of him? CP3, Tony Parker (over his last five games) and Devin Harris (who has been having the best stretch of his entire career). His PER, not surprisingly , is also in a steep climb. It has gone up 2.8 points over the last 4 games. That's a lot in a short time. If it goes up another 2.8 points, he will be safely into the top 10 in that stat for point guards. If we keep on using him this way, that isn't far off.

Rondo less efficient when he gets the ball more? Uhhh... no.

5. It isn't as if we haven't seen Rondo  play this way before - most notably last season when K.G. went down. Rondo got the ball more, and he went off. The difference this season is that Doc is electing to give Rondo the ball more with K.G. on the court.

6. He still isn't hitting his mid range shot, though he hit a few threes. The thing is,  that we should all know that the mid range game is coming. It isn't as if we haven't see it before. One reason that I believe that it will is that Rondo is actually looking to shoot the ball now. Give him one good game there, and he'll be set for a while with regards to confidence.

7. A few things which have iompressed me about Doc's change of heart in using Rondo is that he is making sure to involve him in ways which were previously under exploited or not emphasized at all. Not only is he setting Rondo a ton of picks now, and right from the beginning of the game. He is also directing Rondo to make cuts off of the ball, and encouraging the others to look for him.

I'm also noticing a lot more of Rondo getting involved in screensetting off of the ball for the others. These are greast ways to keep him engaged and to keep him a threat. For most of the season Rondo was basically dribbling the ball up the court, handing it off to someone else and sent into the corner to watch the others turn it over a bunch. Now he is fuilly engaged in all aspects of ball movement. The fact that he spends most of his time at the top of the arc instead of in the corner doesn't hurt either. It is a fundamental change in the offense. He runs it now, not Paul or Ray, and that is the way that it should be.

8. I encourage you guys to read the "Comments from the other side" link from Loy's Place. I always make a point to do so. The fans from the other teams are spiiting out a lot of "Man, we are making Rondo look like an All-Star". My take on that? Yes, that is exactly what he looks like.... except that it isn't them who is making him look that way. He's just taking it out on them.

[Mr October]

I'm really enjoying watching Rondo this year. He is so much better than he was a year ago. For the most part (in the games i have seen) he has picked up where he had left off in the Finals. Keep doing your thing young fella!

And Doc, keep on giving this kid the keys to this green machine!

[guava_wrench]

A lot of the time Rondo enters the lane intending to pass and then does so. That doesn't necessarily mean that he passed up a layup or he's afraid to shoot. Drawing defenders and passing to an open player is, in some circles, acceptable play from a point guard.

Listen we can play the word games but you and I both know Rondo passes up alot of makeable shots - and those guys he dishes to on the outside are often covered. The bad Rondo does alot of that. He becomes tenative - and passes up a ton of shots.

I have said it before and I will say it again - for someone with his length and his supposed athleticism he is pretty poor finisher around the hoop. He tends to long jump rather then high jump. If you watched a guy like Derrick Rose for just a few games you would quickly see what I am talking about.

That statistic you quoted is garbage and you know it. House's "close" percentage is  87.5 percent. Does that make House the best finisher in the game? No. Anyone with a brain in his head knows House just takes gimmee layups around the hoop.

"Bad" Rondo is a classic scared to shoot PG. He only takes very easy shots - and passes up everything but bunnies. This skews his statistics badly. The good confident aggressive Rondo is better - but he still doesn't finish that well. He sometimes just kinda chucks the ball up at the basket.

Pete

It's clear that Doc is forcing him to shoot on his penetration. The last few games have been completely different. I would be cautious about generalizing in either direction at this point.

[Sweet17]

Are you trying to say that he has a higher shooting percentage when he's not playing aggressively? Because that's ridiculous. I don't think that the 5-25 stretch in the 4 games before his aggressiveness reappeared badly skewed his statistics upward.

From the inside yes. Back when bad Rondo was around the guy would pass up layup opportunities. I think you have to be blind not to see that. Your conflating his speed with finishing ability.

His speed gets him into the lane. His speed allows him to beat people for easy layups. That doesn't mean he finishes well. He wasn't elevating to the basket well. You haven't produced a statistic that would really "prove" me wrong.

You would need to track how many times he gets INTO the lane - and how many shots he takes. A guy like Rondo who can get anywhere he wants on the court - and has outside shooters will of course take plenty of shots from the paint.

Tony Allen is only 0.1 points behind Rondo in points in the paint and he gets fouled more then Rondo. Do you think Allen finishes as well as Lebron? Like I said the statitsics your relying on don't track what I am talking about. 

And have you considered that some of his "bad" stretches are injury related? Aside from the beating he takes on some of his drives I thought he twisted his ankle during one of the earlier games. Others in this thread have noted that he's been lacking some of his explosiveness. If he starts off the season playing well, has a few bad games and then starts playing well again the answer isn't necessarily jeckyl and hyde.

I am not anti-Rondo. He was playing very poorly - now he is playing much better. Injuries are obviously a possibility. But nonetheless he was playing like garbage for much of the early part of the season. He would pass up wide open jumpers -drive to the line and pass out to Ray or Paul for contested shots. Like i said your so biased you don't see this.

I see Rondo for what he really is. Your trying to invalidate very obvious observations by twisting statistics. Rondo doesn't shoot well from the outside. He doesn't finish as well as other top NBA guards with regards to difficult layups so this year he has been taking less of them.

Last year he chucked it up from the inside to the tune of .573 percent. He of course played more aggressively last year (and only recently has returned to that kind of form.) I haven't seen any change in his ability to finish so that's probably the kind of number he will end up with.

Pete