Rajon Rondo = BJ Armstrong.

[moiso]

He was up and down last year too.  Like someone else said- he's gotta get some consistency.  He does look like the same player with the same broken jump shot.  I said he hit a plateau, not the same thing as a peak.

[moiso]

So what part of his game exactly do you think is so much better than last year?  I notice him being slightly more comfortable with the ball in his hands running the offense, but that's about it.

[rondilla]

I'm not seeing that at all, sorry. Has Rondo been beaten at times? Sure. Consistently? Nope. His opponents PER stat is a little high right now, but I'm not too worried about that. It will drop. It would be a lot lower than that if he wasn't tasked to help others in our defense so much and got more help himself. As I said before, this defense puts a lot of pressure on the point guard. That allows the others to play their men much tighter, and makes the defense better overall. Opposing point guards are forced to be shooters instead of playmakers, and that really messes a lot of teams up. The PG might get more points out of the deal, but he is less able to make plays for his team. When the guy Rondo is guarding is primarily a shooter, he plays it very differently and seeks to take those shots away and forces him to be a playmaker.

Meh. The Rondo is a great defender' bit seems really suspect. It's just kinda thrown out there to deflect any criticism about him. That was my point. I suppose you can always 'see' what you want to 'see' on the court - and that's why they invented statistics.

Rondo the way he played tonight obviously is excellent. Hopefully we see more of the 'good' Rondo - and not the bad one that was with us for first dozen or so games.
I think this was the first game where Rondo was the "best" player out there for the C's.

Pete

The bad one which was with us for the first dozen or so games? So if Rondo isn't the best player on the court he's bad? He's had plenty of good games up to this point, but hey why let objectivity get in the way?

[KCattheStripe]

I'm not seeing that at all, sorry. Has Rondo been beaten at times? Sure. Consistently? Nope. His opponents PER stat is a little high right now, but I'm not too worried about that. It will drop. It would be a lot lower than that if he wasn't tasked to help others in our defense so much and got more help himself. As I said before, this defense puts a lot of pressure on the point guard. That allows the others to play their men much tighter, and makes the defense better overall. Opposing point guards are forced to be shooters instead of playmakers, and that really messes a lot of teams up. The PG might get more points out of the deal, but he is less able to make plays for his team. When the guy Rondo is guarding is primarily a shooter, he plays it very differently and seeks to take those shots away and forces him to be a playmaker.

Meh. The Rondo is a great defender' bit seems really suspect. It's just kinda thrown out there to deflect any criticism about him. That was my point. I suppose you can always 'see' what you want to 'see' on the court - and that's why they invented statistics.

Rondo the way he played tonight obviously is excellent. Hopefully we see more of the 'good' Rondo - and not the bad one that was with us for first dozen or so games.
I think this was the first game where Rondo was the "best" player out there for the C's.

Pete

The bad one which was with us for the first dozen or so games? So if Rondo isn't the best player on the court he's bad? He's had plenty of good games up to this point, but hey why let objectivity get in the way?

Don't let objectivity get in the way: Come to the Praise Rondo thread!

[rondilla]

Second very good game in a row on both ends of the floor, he hit his first three, he racking up a pretty consistent 7-8 assists per game and seems to be moving a bit quicker.

Maybe he was hurting a bit from all those early season falls and that explains that 5 game slump in overall play.

I think this is going to be the start of a godd consistent run for Rondo where we start seeing numbers like 12-15 PPG, 7-9 APG, 3-5 RPG and 2-3 SPG.

The Celtics played 13 games in 23 days against some of the leagues best with games vs Cleveland, Detroit(twice), Houston, Atlanta, Toronto, Denver and New York(they are above .500 after all). The next 13 games are in a 27 day span and the competition isn't nearly as tough with their toughest games being against Utah, New Orleans, Portland and Orlando all at home and Atlanta and Toronto and Indiana on the road.

I think it sets up for Rondo and the team to get in a groove. In 3 weeks this post could look pretty premature and silly.

They set A LOT of picks for Rondo. Probably more picks than in any two previous games combined. The result? A big game. Did he do things without the benefit of picks? Yep, but it was the steady and consistent pick setting which got him going, and kept him going. The "All you have to do is go under the pick" argument which was being put forth was shown to be untrue. The only thing which had any effect was switching, and switches are made to be taken advantage of. Rondo and his teammates will learn to exploit those very effciently. Also, since they kept the ball in his hands alot, the turnovers went down.

What happened in the game was exactly what I wanted to see, and it worked as I expected.

He was also ASKING for picks and looking for them. He spent a lot of time inside the 3-point arc, and looked for screens to use. HE made the decisions. He was the one who chose to become more aggressive out there after being called out. He was the one that took the opportunities, with or without the benefit of a pick, when they presented themselves. He was playing well before he even started getting a constant dosage of picks in the game.

The difference in this game to the others was the decision making. His decision making was great, and was rewarded for it. If you're making poor decisions in the floor it's illogical to have him controlling the offense as much as you want him to, although in my opinion he was already quite involved in the offense this early season.

That they got him more picks this games was a consequence of him playing well to begin with, not the other way around.

Also, considering the amount of minutes the bench played, and the 26 minutes Rondo played it's quite safe to say that the reduction in turnovers wasn't really about keeping the ball in Rondo's hands. There're many other factors to consider. Not to say that it doesn't help, but it wasn't BECAUSE of Rondo as you would like to believe.

They consistently set picks for him from the very beginning of the game. What was especially notable was that even when the offense had its hiccups running the pick and roll for Rondo that they continued to do it.

I'm having a little trouble understanding your reasoning. In one part you are claiming that Rondo was asking for picks, and that was why they were set for him, yet in another you are saying that they set him picks because he was already playing well. Those two ideas don't mesh well with each other.

With regards to the turnovers, our first unit has been turning the ball over like crazy this season. With Rondo being the one doing the ball handling and playmaking that certainly wasn't the case in this game. There were some mistakes, but overall it was very clean and coherent basketball.

[Sweet17]

The bad one which was with us for the first dozen or so games? So if Rondo isn't the best player on the court he's bad? He's had plenty of good games up to this point, but hey why let objectivity get in the way?

I don't think he has had plenty of "good games" but hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think his last two games have been good.

Rondo was something like 27th out of 30 in scoring for points and was getting beaten to the point of 19PER for each contest. He was playing very poorly.
 
 
 

[Toine43]

The bad one which was with us for the first dozen or so games? So if Rondo isn't the best player on the court he's bad? He's had plenty of good games up to this point, but hey why let objectivity get in the way?

I don't think he has had plenty of "good games" but hey beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think his last two games have been good.

Rondo was something like 27th out of 30 in scoring for points and was getting beaten to the point of 19PER for each contest. He was playing very poorly.
 

Rondilla- don't try to argue with Sweet17 about this. He simply hates Rondo. I've never seen anything like it before, but there's just a lot of hatrid there.

[Sweet17]

I like Rondo. He was good last year - and has been good the last two games. Let's not label people please..

[BudweiserCeltic]

I'm having a little trouble understanding your reasoning. In one part you are claiming that Rondo was asking for picks, and that was why they were set for him, yet in another you are saying that they set him picks because he was already playing well. Those two ideas don't mesh well with each other.

One speaks to Rondo's desire to get things done. To not be passive. The other speaks of the consistency at which they were set, about the team's response to Rondo's desire to get things done. I doubt that if he was making poor choices out there they would keep letting him dominate the ball. Facts is that he was making really good choices and decisions out there. He knew it, the team knew it. Just the same as he was looking and asking for picks, the players on the floor had no problem with him being this active since he was playing great, to the point that they themselves starting making picks (even when they weren't appropiate in the flow of the offense). The game is fluid and various factors influence decisions on the floor.

It's like when a shooter is struggling with his shot. Rhythm, amount of touches, shooting form, etc. are factors, and they're also related to one an other. He's shooting bad, the touches decrease because he doesn't have the hot hand, and as a consequence his rhythm and form suffers. There are many things to factor in.

What you also have to focus on is the good things he did without a pick. That should tell you his capabilities. For one that seems to like Rondo as much as you do, you seem to have a poor opinion of the guy. You make it seem as if he were worthless without picks. You know that's not true, I know it's not true. So let's stop with the excuses of Rondo's poor play because of the lack of picks. He can play very well without them, taking people off the dribble and playing inside the 3-point arc. In fact, by doing that alone, the picks will come naturally. I don't think many of the picks that were made last night were from behind the 3-point arc. He was simply making things happen, and things naturally progressed from there.

There's no doubt in my mind, that as far as Rondo goes individually, he really benefits from picks. That's a gurantee. What I always argue is wether it's a good idea for him to do so for the benefit of the team. It all hinges in his decision making. If he's making good choices, well Rondo, have at it to your heart's content. If he's making poor ones, as he had been doing for great portions of this early season and through most of last season's playoffs... hell no. It starts with Rondo doing the things he needs to do, once that is established, things will progress from there. Not the other way around.

[Edgar]

Excuse No.123364789334

Hes Mikes Boy

Excuse No.123364789335

If we trade Delonte to keep him, theres something good with this kid

Excuse No.123364789336

We dont have a backup poingt guard


Excuse No.123364789337

Hes still learning the NBA game


Excuse No. 123364789338

Excuse me.

[KCattheStripe]

Excuse No. 123364789338

Excuse me.

There's no excuse for you Edgar.

[cordobes]

As long as Rondo's jump-shot is not being labeled as good, I don't have much to add. If that part of the discussion is over, fine.

Running more picks to Rondo would make us like the Suns with Rondo as our Nash. That would probably inflate his fantasy value, but I don't think it would deliver more wins for the team.

Same for his defense. If there's a team in the league that shows early help to the perimeter defenders are the Celtics. Thibodeau can't allow Rondo to gamble even more because an important part of the defense is based on the ability of the perimeter players to force their man to the baseline or to the lane, wherever the help is.

Rondilla, I don't know if you watched the game, but if you do and you think that Iverson was going under the picks, you don't know what going under means. Also, I understand you don't trust the other guys, but they are probably HoFers who delivered a NBA title. 

[Edgar]

Excuse No. 123364789338

Excuse me.

There's no excuse for you Edgar.

what takes me to

Excuse No. 123364789339

Its fun to make excuses for him

and

Excuse No.1233567893340

Theres still plenty of excuses for him 

[phaze]

Rondo is 3rd in the league in FG% (48.7) among PGs.

... 8th in the league in assists.

... 3rd in the league in steals.

... 6th in the league in rebounds.

[Sweet17]

He is 84 out of 100 in points per 48 minutes among guards. <g> We can play the stat game. We all know the only reason Rondo shoots a high percentage is because he passes up a ton of shots.  I have never seen a guard who drives in like he does - right next to the basket and then passes out to some Celtic for a contest jump shot..

It's not all bad - he does GET to the basket.