Author Topic: i don't see how tony allen fits  (Read 10677 times)

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Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2008, 10:41:42 AM »

Offline EJPLAYA

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I seem to remember TA leading the team in 3FG% for a few months last year.  He's not Ray Allen but when he gets his rhythm he's a perfectly good jump shooter.

Give him a healthy season or two and I'm convinced you'll be very pleasantly surprised with his all-around game.

I seem to remember that from the 20th of  Feb last season through the end of the regular season TA missed every single 3 pt attempt he took... That is backed up by stats. 3 of the six months in the season last year in fact he made no 3 pointers taken. He's a career 30.8% shooter. That is absolutely terrible for a "shooting" guard. Let's take the three pointer off the table for TA. There is no way that TA will ever be a good three point shooter, and hopefully he stops ever taking them. Drive to the basket, pull up from 10 feet for a shot if you have to. Get back on defense.  That's it...

Got all net on the one he took last night  8)

(not that it means anything at all, just funny we were discussing this today)

Funny you should say that. As I was watching last night and he hit that one from the corner I was thinking about this thread! It was actually credited as a long 2. He's now still 0-5 for the year. That means he hasn't made a 3 since last Feb 20th...

He actually has shown flashes of shooting "okay". It's all about confidence of course. I think the point really is that he needs to do what he does best or he's not worth being out there. If I were him I would put 100% of my focus on "Eddie House" aggressive defense, and 100% of the offensive focus on slashing and getting fouled. He is pretty good from the free throw line.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2008, 12:55:05 PM »

Offline Sweet17

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No. Tony needs to get his J going. Like Pierce it's critical because he will get defenders to run out on him - and it will open up his slashing drives.. It will also help the entire teams offense function better.

We all know when you play basketball that sometimes you just are GIVEN shots. You really need to take and make those. It's very awkward to pass up a wide open J and drive into traffic. I think a player ANY NBA player - needs to take those shots and be confident.

Come on now - most HS kids can hit some wide open Js. Yes slashing is Tony's game but for it to work he needs guys to actually cover him.

Pete

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #32 on: November 11, 2008, 10:37:38 AM »

Offline cornbreadsmart

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i don't think tony will ever be a reliable outside shooter. does anyone see him come out early before the 2nd half and shoot jumpers. me and my dad go and marvel at how many he MISSES in a row from like 20 feet. every time we go we can't belive it. we're talking 4,5 in a row, makes 3, misses 2. we know he must work on it but for whatever reason it's not there and i think it's pretty safe to say it's not coming.
  for the celtics to win the whole thing i don't see tony in the game in crunch time. it's a bummer cuz we don't really have the option of going small and spreading the court cuz both he and rondo are bad shooters. i had hoped rondo would be more comfortable shooting the jumper this year but i would say less so than last year at this point. that's been a surprise. talk about nitpicking w/this awesome team but to win everything because i dont think i WANT tony taking deep jumpers, rondo has to start takin' them again.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2008, 10:52:58 AM »

Offline Chris

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No. Tony needs to get his J going. Like Pierce it's critical because he will get defenders to run out on him - and it will open up his slashing drives.. It will also help the entire teams offense function better.

We all know when you play basketball that sometimes you just are GIVEN shots. You really need to take and make those. It's very awkward to pass up a wide open J and drive into traffic. I think a player ANY NBA player - needs to take those shots and be confident.

Come on now - most HS kids can hit some wide open Js. Yes slashing is Tony's game but for it to work he needs guys to actually cover him.

Pete

I think you are expecting too much.  Tony is a bad shooter.  He is not going to just "get his J going".  He may be hot here or there, but he really is never going to be an efficient shooter from long range.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #34 on: November 11, 2008, 11:23:33 AM »

Offline BillfromBoston

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..I'd argue that he doesn't need to be efficient with his outside shot, he just needs to hit enough 17 footers to keep the defense honest - he is streaky with it, but  he's shown enough in the past to open up his game for drives...he's also a good off-ball cutter, so he has enough game to pull it all together - he did this during his "break out" year, where he was hitting pull-ups at a decent rate and completely forcing his man to stay up on him...

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #35 on: November 11, 2008, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline Chris

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..I'd argue that he doesn't need to be efficient with his outside shot, he just needs to hit enough 17 footers to keep the defense honest - he is streaky with it, but  he's shown enough in the past to open up his game for drives...he's also a good off-ball cutter, so he has enough game to pull it all together - he did this during his "break out" year, where he was hitting pull-ups at a decent rate and completely forcing his man to stay up on him...

I don't disagree with this.  Although I think he needs to be sticking to 17 footers rather than 3 pointers.  Basically he is in the same position as Rondo.  He needs to take the open shots when they are there, enough to keep defenses honest.  Although like Rondo, he should be looking for spots on the floor where he is more comfortable shooting, and not just hang on the 3 point line.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2008, 04:36:38 PM »

Offline xmuscularghandix

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i say no three pointers, i mean if he's got the ball and baby sets him a pick the defender is going to play him to drive take that mid range shot. even if you miss it the next time down the defender is atleast going to contemplate playing tighter.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2008, 05:40:43 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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I don't get this fixation with TA's jumper, especially when Posey was horrible at penetration. With Posey and House on the floor, we has two guys who had almost no ability to create anything going to the basket.

Subbing TA and house for rondo and ray makes sense. It would help a lot if TA wasn't so short on all his recent jumpers, but our bench has been far more productive so far. Posey hasn't been missed.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2008, 06:05:45 PM »

Offline zerophase

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ta was hitting 3's consistently at one point last season if i remember correctly. but then again, rondo was shooting last season too.

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Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #39 on: November 11, 2008, 06:16:42 PM »

Offline Sweet17

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TA's jumper is not so bad that we should give up on it. TA has gone entire seasons hitting over 30% from free. He is a career 30% 3 point shooter and a career 76% free throw shooter. He is a far better shooter then Rondo.

I'd compare TA's offensive game to Ricky Davis when it's going well. That's the kind of offensive play i want to see out of him.

I play ball - and honestly I don't know why people are so deadset against not great shooters shooting 3. It's not any harder skill wise then a 17 footer - and it counts a point more. Tony should add the corner three to his aresnal - absolutely.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #40 on: November 11, 2008, 08:58:49 PM »

Offline cordobes

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..I'd argue that he doesn't need to be efficient with his outside shot, he just needs to hit enough 17 footers to keep the defense honest - he is streaky with it, but  he's shown enough in the past to open up his game for drives...he's also a good off-ball cutter, so he has enough game to pull it all together - he did this during his "break out" year, where he was hitting pull-ups at a decent rate and completely forcing his man to stay up on him...

I don't disagree with this.  Although I think he needs to be sticking to 17 footers rather than 3 pointers.  Basically he is in the same position as Rondo.  He needs to take the open shots when they are there, enough to keep defenses honest.  Although like Rondo, he should be looking for spots on the floor where he is more comfortable shooting, and not just hang on the 3 point line.

Well, they can't just look for spots where they're comfortable,  the team has needs in terms of positioning, and they should move accordingly to the coaches instructions and the reading of the defense. If not, with a line-up of Rondo/Tony/x/Powe/Perkins you'd have four guys sticked around the paint. It's curious that last season we used some plays taken out of Calipari's playbook and Doc was using Rondo as he was Joey Dorsey, playing at the 5. Really unorthodox, but a good demonstration of the kind of problems that guards with such a poor outside shooting create to their own team.

TA's jumper is not so bad that we should give up on it. TA has gone entire seasons hitting over 30% from free. He is a career 30% 3 point shooter and a career 76% free throw shooter. He is a far better shooter then Rondo.

I agree that he is a far better shooter than Rondo, especially off-the-dribble, and that he should keep working on his jump-shot. However, I doubt he'll ever have more than a streaky and highly unreliable and inconsistent long-range jump-shot: you pointed Ricky Davis, but Allen, with  a career .301% 3 point shooter, has hit 50 3pt shots through his career, aprox. 1 per 95 minutes, while Davis, a .361 shooter, has hit 535 triples, 1 per 38 minutes on the floor. That's a very, very huge gap.

When a 26 years old is airballing open 3s and missing jump-shots left and right (and the range of the misses, as well as the inconsistency, are very good tools to evaluate a jump-shot), I think the room to improvement is severely limited. It may be enough to allow him to hit a couple of jumpers exactly when we need though.


Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #41 on: November 11, 2008, 09:13:19 PM »

Offline tenn_smoothie

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I play ball - and honestly I don't know why people are so deadset against not great shooters shooting 3. It's not any harder skill wise then a 17 footer - and it counts a point more. Tony should add the corner three to his aresnal - absolutely.

so you play ball, huh ?

what does that mean ? basketball seems to be the one game many people think that they can play. "playing ball" down at the Y is not a qualification for pretending you know about basketball - which you obviously don't.

shooting a mid-range jumper and a 3-pt.shot are significantly different and Tony Allen's shot does not look to me like it would work as well from long-range as it could from mid-range. he's got that explosive, jerky jump shot, not a smooth release that is based out of his stance (like most good long range guys). so i'd encourage Tony Allen to work on his shooting 17 ft. and in and to learn to use the glass. play to his strengths.

sorry to disagree. i played ball, too (in college).
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Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #42 on: November 11, 2008, 09:37:24 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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If he had a reliable jumper he'd be a star, not a reserve.
Tony's job on this team is to play relentless, disruptive defense.  Everything else is gravy.

Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2008, 10:02:34 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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He may very well fit - as a defensive specialist, that's true.

But as for the outside shot, he doesn't fill that void at all and given his mechanics, he likely never will.
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Re: i don't see how tony allen fits
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2008, 10:16:34 PM »

Offline Brickowski

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What does it mean to "fill a void?" What void? This team already has three great shooters: Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Eddie House. And Garnett can shoot the rock too.

I don't care if TA is a "well-rounded" player. It's more important that what he does-- play defense and slash to the hoop-- he does very, very well.

 

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