LBJ at 23 vs MJ at 23

[Schupac]

It's impossible to compare the two because Jordan was officiated evenly at the time and the messiah plays by a completely different set of "rules" from his peers.  The Jordan Rules came a couple of years down the road.

The messiah is so physically freakish that he doesn't need the help Stern is giving him through the officials.  Jordan didn't need it, either.  But he wasn't getting it at 23.

The "Jordan Rules" had nothing to do with officiating. The "Jordan Rules" was the hype about the defense the Pistons played against MJ.

Guava, I'm aware of the Jordan Rules as you know it.  My version of the Jordan Rules was how he was officiated completely different from any other NBA player shortly after Stern saw how his stardom could transcend the NBA from the Bird/Johnson era.  It was more startling and obvious because Jordan was the only beneficiary of the biased officiating of his era.  In today's NBA, the messiah is treated with even more partiality from the officials than Jordan was.  A whole group of second-tier stars following the messiah (Pierce, Carter, Iverson, Anthony, O'Grady, Nash, J. O'Neal, Wade, Arenas, and Baron Davis) are treated like Jordan was.  It makes the games entertaining but (particularly in the messiah's games) often anticlimatic.  But by virtue of the WWE officiating in the messiah's games, the world's most talented player's games are not fun to watch at all.  That's why Donaghy could get away with what he did for so long.  The officiating has been so tiered and poor for so long what Donaghy's bad calls were/are the norm.

You and me, we're gonna be friends. TP for you.

[Sweet17]

Jordan was far better - IMHO. Lebron is more athlete then baller - and his defense doesn't even come close to Jordan who was a DOMINANT defender..

[scurvmeister]

I am not even sure how one can compare the two especially at such a young age.

By the time he was 23 (1986), Jordan was an established force in the NBA.  LBJ didn't even get elected to the US House until 1937 and by that time he was 29 years old.  Despite what Charles Barkley thinks, basketball and politics shouldn't coexist, at least not on this site.

TP for sneaking in a double meaning on the initials, haha.

[dark_lord]

personally by the age of 23, i think magic was better than both of them.

here are some stats (hopefully they line up evenly when i post them:


Player   Age   Games   FG%   3PT%   STL   REB   ASST   PTS



MJ   21   82   0.515   0.173   2.4   6.5   5.9   28.2
   22   18   0.457   0.167   2.1   3.6   2.9   22.7
   23   82   0.482   0.182   2.9   5.2   4.6   37.1

ROY, All rookie 1st team, All NBA 1st team, 1 scoring title, 3 time all-star                        




Magic    20   77   0.53   0.226   2.4   7.7   7.3   18
   21   37   0.532   0.176   3.4   8.6   8.6   21.6
   22   78   0.537   0.207   2.7   9.6   9.5   18.6
   23   79   0.548   0   2.2   8.6   10.5   16.8
            (0.3 attempts)            
All rookie 1st team, All NBA 1st team, 3 time all-star, 2 time Finals MVP, 2 NBA championships                        




LBJ   19   79   0.417   0.29   1.6   5.5   5.9   29
   20   80   0.472   0.351   2.2   7.4   7.2   27.2
   21   79   0.48   0.335   1.6   7   6.6   31.4
   22   78   0.476   0.319   1.6   6.7   6   27.3
   23   75   0.484   0.315   1.8   7.9   7.2   30

ROY, All rookie 1st team, 2 time all NBA 1st team, 4 time all-star, 2 time all-star MVP                        
1 scoring title, 1 NBA finals appearance                        

[Scribbles]

It's impossible to compare the two because Jordan was officiated evenly at the time and the messiah plays by a completely different set of "rules" from his peers.  The Jordan Rules came a couple of years down the road.

The messiah is so physically freakish that he doesn't need the help Stern is giving him through the officials.  Jordan didn't need it, either.  But he wasn't getting it at 23.

The "Jordan Rules" had nothing to do with officiating. The "Jordan Rules" was the hype about the defense the Pistons played against MJ.

Guava, I'm aware of the Jordan Rules as you know it.  My version of the Jordan Rules was how he was officiated completely different from any other NBA player shortly after Stern saw how his stardom could transcend the NBA from the Bird/Johnson era.  It was more startling and obvious because Jordan was the only beneficiary of the biased officiating of his era.  In today's NBA, the messiah is treated with even more partiality from the officials than Jordan was.  A whole group of second-tier stars following the messiah (Pierce, Carter, Iverson, Anthony, O'Grady, Nash, J. O'Neal, Wade, Arenas, and Baron Davis) are treated like Jordan was.  It makes the games entertaining but (particularly in the messiah's games) often anticlimatic.  But by virtue of the WWE officiating in the messiah's games, the world's most talented player's games are not fun to watch at all.  That's why Donaghy could get away with what he did for so long.  The officiating has been so tiered and poor for so long what Donaghy's bad calls were/are the norm.

I agree with you on so many levels its not even funny.  TP for that.  Another reason why, even though I love the Celtics and will watch almost all their games this season, that the high school and college level of basketball is still so pure and true to how its suppose to be played. 

[Dybdal]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

[Moranis]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Lebron is a better shooter than MJ at their respective ages.  Lebron is also every bit the clutch performer that MJ was at their respective ages.  You are correct about defense.  1 out of 3 isn't bad.

[wdleehi]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Lebron is a better shooter than MJ at their respective ages.  Lebron is also every bit the clutch performer that MJ was at their respective ages.  You are correct about defense.  1 out of 3 isn't bad.

Lebron showed a glimpse of what kind of defender he could be last year in the playoffs against Pierce.


Now, he just need to be consistent and give that level of effort at all times.

[Dybdal]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Lebron is a better shooter than MJ at their respective ages.  Lebron is also every bit the clutch performer that MJ was at their respective ages.  You are correct about defense.  1 out of 3 isn't bad.

Lebron is a better shooter than MJ at their respective ages.
No he wasnt, in both technique and talent Michael Jordan at 23 was a better pure shooter than Lebron.

Lebron is also every bit the clutch performer that MJ was at their respective ages.
I said nothing about being clutch, i said closing out games. this comes back to shooting again. everyone knows that Lebron can make those offbalance, driving head first into trafic, circus shots down the stretch but it dosnt mean squat when your that poor a preformer from the free throw line. Case and point what happend yesterday.

oh and before i forget, 0 out of 2 isnt to bad.

[Finkelskyhook]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

The problem, Dybdal, is that as long as the messiah can get away with grossly obvious violations of the rulebook right in front of the officials, he really doesn't need to improve.  Stern is doing the messiah, and the fans a disservice.  While Stern's goal may be to protect the messiah and keep him on the court, the messiah could be so much better than he already is.  The messiah is a rare combination of an off-the-charts basketball IQ combined with the most freakish athletism and size.  But why does he need to be a better shooter when he can go to the basket with 4 dribbless steps and draw phantom fouls if anybody dares get withing 3 feet of him?  He could be a lot better defender if he just did all of the grabbing and slapping Jordan got away with.  It's a safe bet he'd get away with more of it than Jordan did.  But he could also be better for real without the help. 

But we'll probably never know.

[cordobes]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Well, the 30 years old Michael Jordan I remember quite well. And Kobe Bryant is nowhere close. I can't think of a single thing that Kobe does better than Jordan at this point of their careers, besides fadeaway baseline jumpers.

[Dybdal]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Well, the 30 years old Michael Jordan I remember quite well. And Kobe Bryant is nowhere close. I can't think of a single thing that Kobe does better than Jordan at this point of their careers, besides fadeaway baseline jumpers.

I do believe that Kobe is about ½ to maybe 1 step behind Michael Jordan in about every catagory related to basketball abilitys (without considering on-court leadership, mental toughness, mind games.. and so forth where they are far between each other) they played in/on 2 completly different times/trends/ruleset so you cant make any real assesment of the two but ive been asked this question from my dad prior to this season starting and my honnest answer is the same as i gave here.

Michael Jordan is better than Kobe at age 30 but not by a land slide, its in my opinon close between them.

(now if kobe had to go back and play when you could defend the parimiter then its a whole different ball game and kobe's game would most likely fall completly apart)

[cordobes]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Well, the 30 years old Michael Jordan I remember quite well. And Kobe Bryant is nowhere close. I can't think of a single thing that Kobe does better than Jordan at this point of their careers, besides fadeaway baseline jumpers.

I do believe that Kobe is about ½ to maybe 1 step behind Michael Jordan in about every catagory related to basketball abilitys (without considering on-court leadership, mental toughness, mind games.. and so forth where they are far between each other) they played in/on 2 completly different times/trends/ruleset so you cant make any real assesment of the two but ive been asked this question from my dad prior to this season starting and my honnest answer is the same as i gave here.

Michael Jordan is better than Kobe at age 30 but not by a land slide, its in my opinon close between them.

(now if kobe had to go back and play when you could defend the parimiter then its a whole different ball game and kobe's game would most likely fall completly apart)

Okay, to each his own... do you think Kobe is currently a better player than LeBron?

[housecall]

Jordan could hit freethrows and especially in crucial situations.MJ is a one of a kind,just as Bird was.Lebron and Kobe can probably be compared to each other,but the comparison to MJ or Bird is not a valid one(imo). 

[Dybdal]

Unless Lebron actualy jumps leaps and bounds in: Shooting, Defense and Closing out Games comparisons between MJ and LBJ is pointless.

I do agree with Nick that Lebron was more mature and more NBA ready from ages 18-22 but 23 and up i dont see Lebron even getting close to the potential of MJ, the closest thing we have had to Michael Jordan is Kobe Bryant and in my opinon its quite close between those two at age 30.

Well, the 30 years old Michael Jordan I remember quite well. And Kobe Bryant is nowhere close. I can't think of a single thing that Kobe does better than Jordan at this point of their careers, besides fadeaway baseline jumpers.

I do believe that Kobe is about ½ to maybe 1 step behind Michael Jordan in about every catagory related to basketball abilitys (without considering on-court leadership, mental toughness, mind games.. and so forth where they are far between each other) they played in/on 2 completly different times/trends/ruleset so you cant make any real assesment of the two but ive been asked this question from my dad prior to this season starting and my honnest answer is the same as i gave here.

Michael Jordan is better than Kobe at age 30 but not by a land slide, its in my opinon close between them.

(now if kobe had to go back and play when you could defend the parimiter then its a whole different ball game and kobe's game would most likely fall completly apart)

Okay, to each his own... do you think Kobe is currently a better player than LeBron?

With the age difference aside, yes he is!