A Patty O'Bryant Question

[Birdbrain]

A better one is Patty O' Furniture... zing

Maybe I'm confused but, I keep seeing his name mentioned as having a questionable character?  Can someone clue me into his past issues or have a link?

[LA_33]

O'Bryant is far more skilled than D.Jordan, and a similar freak athlete.  I'd much rather have the guy who could be approaching the point where he breaks out and becomes a real NBA contributor, rather than the guy who's just starting that climb and is probably at least 2-3 years away from helping a good team.

POB is going to be a very good shot blocker immediately, and he dominated at both ends in the D-League last season (a FAR higher level of competition than even the best NCAA ball, especially for a center) so he's ready to be fighting for rotation minutes in the NBA at this point.   

As for POB's HS ranking, I'd say two things:  First, he was never talked about as a top-level recruit coming out of HS, which is why he ended up at Bradley.  He was still mediocre for a year or two in college, too, and then he figured something out, and started kicking butt and taking names at the NCAA level.  He was still relatively unproven, but he was at least periodically dominant in college. 

Minnesota is also a tough HS region for unpolished big guys to get noticed, because while the overall talent pool isn't great (it's really pretty good compared to overall population, but not great) there is a TON of size here.  Most good HS teams in the Twin Cities metro area (Blaine is a suburb of Minneapolis) play NCAA-sized frontlines, with 6'4"-6'6" small forwards, and two guys bigger than that.  A legit 7-footer isn't particularly out of the ordinary here, so POB wouldn't have stood out just because he was big, like he would have in most parts of the country.     

[Roy Hobbs]

Today I was wondering again whether the Celts will regret not drafting DeAndre Jordan at #30 instead of Giddens. Even if Jordan isn't the better prospect, center is a position of need and it might have been intriguing to watch Clifford Ray work with both Jordan and O'Bryant all summer, and next summer.
 

I get the feeling that Jordan is the big man equivalent of Gerald Green.  A little bit lazy, a little bit dumb, and not nearly as talented as he looks in a highlight reel.

[Roy Hobbs]

A better one is Patty O' Furniture... zing

Maybe I'm confused but, I keep seeing his name mentioned as having a questionable character?  Can someone clue me into his past issues or have a link?

The only things I've heard is that he had a really poor work ethic coming into the league, which everybody (even POB) seems to acknowledge to some extent.  POB says he was immature; Don Nelson seems to think he was lazy.  Either way, he didn't put in the required work needed.  From what we hear, though, he's been doing some work with Clifford Ray, and has been at the practice facility quite a bit, so let's hope for the best.

[Chris]

Today I was wondering again whether the Celts will regret not drafting DeAndre Jordan at #30 instead of Giddens. Even if Jordan isn't the better prospect, center is a position of need and it might have been intriguing to watch Clifford Ray work with both Jordan and O'Bryant all summer, and next summer.
 

I get the feeling that Jordan is the big man equivalent of Gerald Green.  A little bit lazy, a little bit dumb, and not nearly as talented as he looks in a highlight reel.

Yup, that was exactly the comparison I had as well.  Basically, he was an Athlete, without much actual basketball ability. 

O'Bryant on the other hand is different from the little I have seen/heard.  He seems to have some decent skills, and maybe even a BBIQ to go along with his size and athleticism.  The problem with him is that he was simply lazy.

Lets face it, O'Bryant is Mark Blount...and if he turns out to be the Mark Blount who was still trying to get paid, then we could be in good shape this season.

[LA_33]

I get the feeling that Jordan is the big man equivalent of Gerald Green.  A little bit lazy, a little bit dumb, and not nearly as talented as he looks in a highlight reel.

Yup, that was exactly the comparison I had as well.  Basically, he was an Athlete, without much actual basketball ability. 

O'Bryant on the other hand is different from the little I have seen/heard.  He seems to have some decent skills, and maybe even a BBIQ to go along with his size and athleticism.  The problem with him is that he was simply lazy.

Lets face it, O'Bryant is Mark Blount...and if he turns out to be the Mark Blount who was still trying to get paid, then we could be in good shape this season.

I basically agree with you guys here, but with a few minor quibbles: 

First, Jordan isn't even a bigman Gerald Green.  Jordan has no actual skill that's anything near Green's shooting ability.  Gerald may not have known how to actually play basketball, but he was and still is an impressive shooter.  Jordan is only an athlete, from what I've seen on the court and in scouting reports.

Second, I definitely see some Mark Blount potential/similarities with POB, but I think there's also a major difference in their best skills.  Blount was a well-above-average jump shooter for a 7-footer.  But a guy with no hands who's best skill involves using up possessions is tough. 

POB, on the other hand, is a good shot blocker right now, and a pretty decent rebounder from all accounts, too.  He's not the offensive player that Blount was, but he has the skillset to have a bigger impact defensively. 

[Chris]

I get the feeling that Jordan is the big man equivalent of Gerald Green.  A little bit lazy, a little bit dumb, and not nearly as talented as he looks in a highlight reel.

Yup, that was exactly the comparison I had as well.  Basically, he was an Athlete, without much actual basketball ability. 

O'Bryant on the other hand is different from the little I have seen/heard.  He seems to have some decent skills, and maybe even a BBIQ to go along with his size and athleticism.  The problem with him is that he was simply lazy.

Lets face it, O'Bryant is Mark Blount...and if he turns out to be the Mark Blount who was still trying to get paid, then we could be in good shape this season.

I basically agree with you guys here, but with a few minor quibbles: 

First, Jordan isn't even a bigman Gerald Green.  Jordan has no actual skill that's anything near Green's shooting ability.  Gerald may not have known how to actually play basketball, but he was and still is an impressive shooter.  Jordan is only an athlete, from what I've seen on the court and in scouting reports.

Second, I definitely see some Mark Blount potential/similarities with POB, but I think there's also a major difference in their best skills.  Blount was a well-above-average jump shooter for a 7-footer.  But a guy with no hands who's best skill involves using up possessions is tough. 

POB, on the other hand, is a good shot blocker right now, and a pretty decent rebounder from all accounts, too.  He's not the offensive player that Blount was, but he has the skillset to have a bigger impact defensively. 

You are thinking of post-contract Blount.  When Blount first joined the Celtics, he had little to no offensive game, but was a  great defender and hustle player.  He was one of the most mobile 7 footers you would ever see, and was a decent shot blocker.  I wouldn't be surprised if Jim O'Brien still thinks that he was the best big man to ever play in his defensive system.  He was so good on the rotations, and could handle guys both in the post or on the perimeter.

Unfortunately, he then learned how to play offense, and got paid...and his defense deteriorated incredibly quickly, as all he cared about was his offense.

[arambone]

The thing is, backup and 3rd string centers don't need to have a high level of skill, especially on this team. Jordan is huge and athletic, and if Perk goes down, we might wish we had both O'Bryant and Jordan there, especially since O'Bryant isn't much of a banger. Jordan could at least absorb a few minutes and fouls, and who knows what a summer with Clifford Ray and playing with Garnett would have done.

[Chris]

The thing is, backup and 3rd string centers don't need to have a high level of skill, especially on this team. Jordan is huge and athletic, and if Perk goes down, we might wish we had both O'Bryant and Jordan there, especially since O'Bryant isn't much of a banger. Jordan could at least absorb a few minutes and fouls, and who knows what a summer with Clifford Ray and playing with Garnett would have done.

The question is, can Jordan learn the defensive scheme?  From what I gathered, one of his biggest problems was that he simply did not know what he was doing out there.  That is the kiss of death on a team like this, where your ability to get on the court relies a great deal on your ability to make the right rotations defensively (just ask Powe, whose problems with the defensive rotations kept him on the bench for about a year and a half).

They would be much better off just bringing in a veteran, without the athleticism, but twice the brains, than wasting a pick on a guy like Jordan, who would likely never see the floor.

[arambone]

Maybe you're right. He does have Dwight Howard type athleticism, and I assume that would help compensate just a bit, but he should also get smarter, stronger, and more skilled over the next couple years. Hopefully BBD can step up big time if/when Perk/Garnett misses time, and maybe Danny feels good about PJ coming back again in the second half.

[Chris]

Maybe you're right. He does have Dwight Howard type athleticism, and I assume that would help compensate just a bit, but he should also get smarter, stronger, and more skilled over the next couple years. Hopefully BBD can step up big time if/when Perk/Garnett misses time, and maybe Danny feels good about PJ coming back again in the second half.

Don't get me wrong, he could still become a decent player in this league.  But from the little I know of him, I don't see it happening anytime soon in a system like the Celtics.  He needs to be on a team with a simpler system, where he can be eased into the rotation.  The C's are looking for depth right now.

[crownsy]

yea, to echo chris, are people also forgetting we had much, much less depth at center last year until the brown signing?

it was pretty much perk and KG at the 5, same as this year minus POB.

to me, center is fine, its SF where we have some depth issues.

[LA_33]

I definitely see some Mark Blount potential/similarities with POB, but I think there's also a major difference in their best skills.  Blount was a well-above-average jump shooter for a 7-footer.  But a guy with no hands who's best skill involves using up possessions is tough. 

POB, on the other hand, is a good shot blocker right now, and a pretty decent rebounder from all accounts, too.  He's not the offensive player that Blount was, but he has the skillset to have a bigger impact defensively.

You are thinking of post-contract Blount.  When Blount first joined the Celtics, he had little to no offensive game, but was a  great defender and hustle player.  He was one of the most mobile 7 footers you would ever see, and was a decent shot blocker.  I wouldn't be surprised if Jim O'Brien still thinks that he was the best big man to ever play in his defensive system.  He was so good on the rotations, and could handle guys both in the post or on the perimeter.

Unfortunately, he then learned how to play offense, and got paid...and his defense deteriorated incredibly quickly, as all he cared about was his offense.

I remember when Blount still cared and was an excellent position defender.  My point about POB was more a contrast of his specific skills;  Blount was never a great shot blocker for his size, an dhe was always a terrible rebounder.  POB is a very talented shot blocker, and a decent rebounder. 

It remains to be seen if he can utilize those skills within a smart overall defensive package.  It's possible, and probably even likely, that he'll never be as effective as Blount was defensively, despite Blount's lack of rebounding and shot blocking.

But if POB also ends up having a decent overall defensive feel, he has a chance to be an even better defender than Blount was, because he does do those other things well.   

[Chris]

I definitely see some Mark Blount potential/similarities with POB, but I think there's also a major difference in their best skills.  Blount was a well-above-average jump shooter for a 7-footer.  But a guy with no hands who's best skill involves using up possessions is tough. 

POB, on the other hand, is a good shot blocker right now, and a pretty decent rebounder from all accounts, too.  He's not the offensive player that Blount was, but he has the skillset to have a bigger impact defensively.

You are thinking of post-contract Blount.  When Blount first joined the Celtics, he had little to no offensive game, but was a  great defender and hustle player.  He was one of the most mobile 7 footers you would ever see, and was a decent shot blocker.  I wouldn't be surprised if Jim O'Brien still thinks that he was the best big man to ever play in his defensive system.  He was so good on the rotations, and could handle guys both in the post or on the perimeter.

Unfortunately, he then learned how to play offense, and got paid...and his defense deteriorated incredibly quickly, as all he cared about was his offense.

I remember when Blount still cared and was an excellent position defender.  My point about POB was more a contrast of his specific skills;  Blount was never a great shot blocker for his size, an dhe was always a terrible rebounder.  POB is a very talented shot blocker, and a decent rebounder. 

It remains to be seen if he can utilize those skills within a smart overall defensive package.  It's possible, and probably even likely, that he'll never be as effective as Blount was defensively, despite Blount's lack of rebounding and shot blocking.

But if POB also ends up having a decent overall defensive feel, he has a chance to be an even better defender than Blount was, because he does do those other things well.   

Sorry, that was a bit of a kneejerk reaction.  So many people seem to concentrate on the last couple years Blount was here, its like they completely forget that he actually did something to earn the big contract he got.

Anyways, I definitely agree with you about the differences there.  Blount never had any of the tools (other than the athleticism) that O'Bryant has.  If POB can show the ability to pick up schemes and work hard in them, then he could be much better than Blount ever was.

[Roy Hobbs]

Blount was never a great shot blocker for his size, an dhe was always a terrible rebounder.

Not to go off-topic too much, but I disagree.  In 2003-04 (aka, his contract year) Blount was a very good rebounder.  Take a look at his rebound totals for the last two months of the season, starting in late February:  10, 10, 11, 10, 21, 7, 11, 17, 11, 9, 11, 15, 10, 12, 13, 5, 15, 5, 10, 5, 9, 10, 10, 9, 12.  That's a pretty impressive string of games, and is not indicative of somebody with terrible rebounding skills.  Since that time, though, Blount's per minute rebounding numbers have declined significantly, which seemed to coincide with a lack of effort.

(Blount was a respectable shot blocker during such time period, as well, although he certainly wasn't anything special.)