Most forgotten champion ever

[drza44]

I read a thread on another message board yesterday about the 2008 Cs, claiming that they will be the most forgotten champion ever.  Basically claiming that it was a fluke title and that they'll just be a footnote in history instead of the "real" champs of this time period like the Spurs and Lakers.  Now, that sour grapes argument is BS for many, many reasons that we all know and could easily spout, but that's not the purpose of this post.  What strikes me is that for many people incorrect perceptions become historical truth, and no amount of pesky facts can change that perception once it has been reached. 

For example, last summer as soon as Garnett was traded to a team with Pierce and Allen on it the Cs IMMEDIATELY became huge title favorites in my mind (enough for me to find a way to lay a championship bet in Vegas on a Cs title, despite me living 3000 miles away), regardless of who else was on the team.  But my perception was already that KG was arguably the best player of his generation and that Pierce/Allen were both under-appreciated as well, so it was easy for me to expect domination.

On the other hand, many didn't (and still don't) agree with me.  Many saw/see KG as a great player, but a notch below the Duncans and Kobes of the world.  Many saw/see Pierce and Allen as very good players, but two notches below the Kobes and even a level below the T-Mac's and Iversons.  I had many arguments with people that asked me how a KG/Pierce/Allen combo was any better than Kidd/Carter/Jefferson or Arenas/Jamison/Butler, and despite my best logic their perceptions wouldn't allow for me to win the argument outside of finally settling for "ok, watch what happens when the season starts" comments.

And despite what happened...66 wins, historic defense, historic win margins, and dominating the favored Lakers in the Finals, many refuse to change their mindset going into this year.  Despite how it played out, KG is still a 4th quarter/big game choker, Pierce is now overrated off of a fluky series but is still the same selfish scorer he's always been, Allen is washed up, losing Posey means no more bench, etc. etc. etc.  The Cs were doubted at every stage last season, and apparently they're still going to be doubted as title contenders again this year.

My question here, is, what does this current Celtics team have to do to finally change the perception that last year was a fluke and that they deserve to be on the big stage?  Would even a second season exactly like last year mount this team into the historic teams, or would they still be seen as more of a secondary champ than a dominant team?  Also, what other false perceptions about the team or individuals could be taken down with another strong season?  Is there anything that Pierce could do this year to make the average fan think he could make a future NBA top 50 historical team?  Is there anything KG could do this year to make John Q. Public reconsider whether the main difference between him and Duncan has been the caliber of their teammates?  Or is general perception so set that, no matter how things shake out on the court, this Cs team will always be relegated to a notch below true greatness?

[Redz]

Boy, I can't speak for what the perception will be around the country in years to come, but last years championship will always be special and memorable to me for the return to glory that it represented.

[Hollywood]

The overall crappy finals (for non-partial fans) and the way that the Lakers just wilted hurt their cause.

They need to come back this year to certify themselves-they will though so no worries here.

[EarthBall]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

[Donoghus]

Celtics win another one and there will be absolutely no worries.  Tough to take yourself outside of this particular instance if you're a Celtics fan.  Honestly, its waaaaaay too early to tell what this team's legacy will be.  For the most part, they're still in tack.  Once the New Three start going their own ways, then can you really make a definitive assessment of where they stand.  It can't be done when the run is still going on, IMO.

Earthball is right on about those '70s teams, lots of people (even casual basketball fans) can probably tell you very little about the '75 Warriors, '78 Bullets, or '79 Sonics.

[CelticsWhat35]

The overall crappy finals (for non-partial fans) and the way that the Lakers just wilted hurt their cause.

They need to come back this year to certify themselves-they will though so no worries here.

What happened to the Lakers shouldn't be a negative reflection on the Celtics.  It should be a negative reflection on the Lakers for being so heavily favored a being taken down so handily and/or a positive reflection on the Celtics for taking down such a heavily favored team.

The people that try to take away anything from the 2008 Celtics are the ones that are bitter about how a team can turn it around so quickly...just not there team.  They're also the same people that had the Lakers winning in 5 or 6 games.

The Celtics already justified their title by winning it all.  Now if they want to become a dynasty, that's a different story

[Redz]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

There are a couple even more forgettable champs, but I can't remember which ones

[Celtic]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

The Heat are definitely the easiest champion to forget of recent years, mainly because of the robbery that was committed on the Mavericks. Also the fact that, aside from Dwyane Wade, they were a very old team when they won, and the next year immediately collapsed, and have been terrible since. The Pistons only won once and have underperformed ever since, but the fact that they are always dangerous, even though they may not be a legitimate contender, keeps them fresh in everyone's memories. The Celtics are years away from being irrelevant, therefore, they will not be forgotten as other teams before them have.

[Spoon]

My question here, is, what does this current Celtics team have to do to finally change the perception that last year was a fluke and that they deserve to be on the big stage?

According to you, your post is about one crackpot writing on a message board.

You have now taken that that crackpot's view and projected it on Joe Q Public. The last time I looked, most fans accept the Celtics are worthy champions. There is no debate about this. You are worrying about arguments that don't exist.

drza44, when you have three HOF players still somewhat in their prime on your roster, nobody is going to call you a fluke. The Celtics were the best team in the NBA last year from start to finish. Only the belief in Kobe forced the media to pick the Lakers. They were wrong. The better team won and Kobe was badly outplayed by Pierce.

You worry too much about what yahoos post on message boards.

[nickagneta]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

The Heat are definitely the easiest champion to forget of recent years, mainly because of the robbery that was committed on the Mavericks. Also the fact that, aside from Dwyane Wade, they were a very old team when they won, and the next year immediately collapsed, and have been terrible since. The Pistons only won once and have underperformed ever since, but the fact that they are always dangerous, even though they may not be a legitimate contender, keeps them fresh in everyone's memories. The Celtics are years away from being irrelevant, therefore, they will not be forgotten as other teams before them have.

Question: Did the Pistons really win it that year and then underperformed thereafter or is it a case of they over performed to win it and have been right about where they should have been ever since?

Funny that people say that the Warriors, Bullets and Sonics championships of the 70's were forgettable, since I think just about every basketball fan knows those teams won it then because it was an era where a whole bunch of teams won that had never won before, thereby making it more memorable.

Now a real forgettable champion is the team that won in 1958. It was that city's only basketball championship and for the life of me I can only name one player on the entire team.

[Donoghus]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

The Heat are definitely the easiest champion to forget of recent years, mainly because of the robbery that was committed on the Mavericks. Also the fact that, aside from Dwyane Wade, they were a very old team when they won, and the next year immediately collapsed, and have been terrible since. The Pistons only won once and have underperformed ever since, but the fact that they are always dangerous, even though they may not be a legitimate contender, keeps them fresh in everyone's memories. The Celtics are years away from being irrelevant, therefore, they will not be forgotten as other teams before them have.

Question: Did the Pistons really win it that year and then underperformed thereafter or is it a case of they over performed to win it and have been right about where they should have been ever since?

Funny that people say that the Warriors, Bullets and Sonics championships of the 70's were forgettable, since I think just about every basketball fan knows those teams won it then because it was an era where a whole bunch of teams won that had never won before, thereby making it more memorable.

Now a real forgettable champion is the team that won in 1958. It was that city's only basketball championship and for the life of me I can only name one player on the entire team.

St. Louis and Bob Pettit?

[nickagneta]

I don't know...I always forget that the Heat won only a few years ago.  And what about the championships in the 70s? Who remembers that the Sonics, Bullets, Warriors, Blazers and Bucks all won?

The Heat are definitely the easiest champion to forget of recent years, mainly because of the robbery that was committed on the Mavericks. Also the fact that, aside from Dwyane Wade, they were a very old team when they won, and the next year immediately collapsed, and have been terrible since. The Pistons only won once and have underperformed ever since, but the fact that they are always dangerous, even though they may not be a legitimate contender, keeps them fresh in everyone's memories. The Celtics are years away from being irrelevant, therefore, they will not be forgotten as other teams before them have.

Question: Did the Pistons really win it that year and then underperformed thereafter or is it a case of they over performed to win it and have been right about where they should have been ever since?

Funny that people say that the Warriors, Bullets and Sonics championships of the 70's were forgettable, since I think just about every basketball fan knows those teams won it then because it was an era where a whole bunch of teams won that had never won before, thereby making it more memorable.

Now a real forgettable champion is the team that won in 1958. It was that city's only basketball championship and for the life of me I can only name one player on the entire team.

St. Louis and Bob Pettit?

And Donny wins today's grand prize. One TP!

[Hollywood]

It also doesn't help the Celts cause that there has been so much Boston sports success recently. A title win in a town like Philly will go a longer way to make that years team seem bigger than they really were.

[ma11l]

I think the "return to glory" plot line and the fact that they're the most winning franchise in the history of basketball will keep them out of this forgotten category. 


Also there were plenty of great moments and games throughout the run that will be remembered for a long time to come.  Pierce and LeBron in Game 7, Pierce's injury game, and the comeback.

[Redz]

Also there were plenty of great moments and games throughout the run that will be remembered for a long time to come.  Pierce and LeBron in Game 7, Pierce's injury game, and the comeback.

Parts we will hopefully forget:  losing the first 6 road games, Ray's slump, Sam's 0-for-20-something

The championship? NEVER!