Bob Ryan says C's fans only reactive

[mkogav]

Just saw Bob Ryan on NESN talking about the fans booing the Pats on Sunday.  He mentioned that Gillette is not a very loud stadium, and the fans don't cheer on the team to do well, they only cheer once the team does something well.  He then said that Celtics fans are the exact same way, always have been, they don't exhort the team to perform, they only cheer when they make a good play.  To me, this is another instance of Bob having stopped following the Celtics in the 80's, just like his shots last year that the team had no bench, when there was still plenty of offseason left.

I was at nearly all of the playoff games last year, and as many of you can attest, there were plenty of chants of D-fense, or, in the Finals, Beat LA!, that were started by the crowd, not just cheering after the Celtics made a great play.

What do the rest of you fans think about this characterization by Ryan?

I was at almost every playoff game, and there was also a LOT of silence when things weren't going well.  After being at 90% of the games last season, I think Ryan is not that far off on this.  The energy in that building was very much contingent on what was happening on the floor (or the occasional Jumbotron prompted cheers).

IMO, the big issue is that the arena's Jumbotron prompts the fans to cheer, clap, kiss someone, chant d-fense, dance with Gino, etc...

When the Jumbotron is silent, the crowd sits on their hand, unless it's completely obvious what to do.

Btw, the Jumbotron just told me to get another cup o coffee...

I must obey the Jumbotron.

Mk

[Birdbrain]

I would disagree greatly with his premise about the C's fans.  At least last year they seemed to be so starved for success that along with KG they got the team to play above their heads on more than a few occasions.  They earned the moniker 'The Jungle' last year but, will the success cause fans to be more reactive this year...

[screwedupmaniac]

i notice that a lot of the examples being used in this discussion are from the playoffs...of course it was quiet, those rich business men and their trophy wives aren't gonna inconvenience themselves by screaming and hurting their voices. i remember watching the camera pan the crowd during crucial 4th quarter timeouts while thinking about how badly i wanted to be there, and seeing people leaving for more food and beer, and nonchalantly sitting and texting away on their phones. yes, there were some of us roudy fans there, but it's like mixing hot water with ice cubes, you just end up with lukewarmness.

no, most of the games i've been to were over the past few years when the team still sucked and i could afford tickets. and you know what? the place would be packed out with insane, strong opinioned, screaming fans. i don't know if we were all screaming out of pain as we lost at home by 15 or what, but the place was loud. also, the only game i went to last year was the season opener against the wizards, and that crowd was VERY loud as well...the garden was rockin.

so basically, it's tough to gauge our true roudy fan base off of a celebrity and well-to-do, fair weathered fake fan base that shows up in the playoffs AFTER our team earns 66 wins and is labeled one of the favorites to win the title.

this also means that bob ryan IS out of touch, because i am sure the only real games he has taken in in the past 20 years were all from this past season/playoff push.

[eat ur wheaties]

i for one didn't notice this at all, nor ddoes it show up on the game tapes, but i suppose they could be pumping in crowd noise on the broadcast.

But, to be fair, and to tie into the jumbotron comment, name me the NBA crowd that cheers from tip to final whistle with the exact same intensity during large leads as opposed to close games.

It doesn't exist. Fan's are not going to cheer their heads off during T.V timeouts, random T-shirt promotions, blaring rock music and all the other breaks in the action the pro game has.

The assertion that NCAA crowds are intense during every minute, even in huge blowouts is a falsehood as well. I've been to multiple NCAA games around the area, and 3 in virgina while i was visiting firends over the summers, and it's just not true.

The reason they seem louder and super proactive is

A) most NCAA games shown on TV tend to be close. let me assure you, if Duke was playing FCS southwest tech and winning 10-65, the crowd would be very happy but semi subdued. however, games on TV tend to be low scoring and close. I.E every basket matters.

B) blessedly, most NCAA teams haven't embraced the "our fans are retards, lets drown them out with obnoxious rock music and random jumbo tron interuptions" era that the pro game has moved into. This leads to more pronounced crowd nosie and participation.

c) I love the crowds at NCAA games, because there all younger drunken fans for the most part. And im not being sarcastic here, not to long ago i was one of them. But the NBA promotes an atmopsher of "bring the family!" tied into the jumbo tron. If the garden was filled with 18,000 Drunken 18-22 year olds, im sure it would be alot more intense. It would also be a place i stop brining my 11 year old brother who loves basketball. It allready annoying enough when we get sat next to a bunch of people drunk out of thier minds and screaming obsenities at the court now, never mind if the entire arena was like that.

The Jumbotron Era: It is What It Is*
so if you were in wyc's shoes (or whoever does ticket promos), would you give students a reduced ticket, in hopes of getting more 18-25 yr olds to get loaded and making the garden more noisy?

about the boo birds, was ryan really expecting everyone to be silent or even cheer for the dolphins?  of course not; the only reason i dont go to pats games is b/c tix cost too [dang] much and the stadium is practically in r.i.  yes, we are spoiled and expect a W every time, but getting beat 5x by a hs-type play is unacceptable.

ryan also seems to forget the non-jumbotron-generated-chants, eg "where is bib-by?", "ron-do's bet-ter", "beat l.a.", the "b-s" chant (when the refs make a b-s call).  and of course there will be dull moments during a game, which i think dominated entire games of the CLE series, except game 7 (those cavs will dull you to death).  BUT...whenever a hustle play was made by a Celtic player, the crowd would acknowledge it.

[Chris]

The Jumbotron Era: It is What It Is*
so if you were in wyc's shoes (or whoever does ticket promos), would you give students a reduced ticket, in hopes of getting more 18-25 yr olds to get loaded and making the garden more noisy?

I sure hope not.  No offense to 18-25 year olds (I am not very far removed myself), because I know it is a select few...but by the end of last year I got very sick of the college kids who came to the game just to get loaded, pick fights for no good reason, get up to get beer/go to the bathroom every 5 minutes, and then spill the beer on everyone they pass when they return without even apologizing.

Maybe I am just being a bit of a season ticket snob here, but it seems like whenever there is a group of college kids (and honestly, it was worse when there was girls with them, because the guys would then compound things by trying to impress the girls with their idiocy), you could tell it was going to be a long night.

If they did start trying to market to that age group even more, I have a feeling those are the kids who would end up with tickets, rather than the ones who are actually fans, and want to watch the game.

[LarBrd33]

That Garden crowd is one of the best in basketball.   Instead of comparing it to a team in the 80s or something, you should compare it to a team in another city.  I've said a few times that I saw several Sonic games at Key Arena in Seattle and none compared to the couple random games (both when we stunk and when we were good) I saw in Boston.  The "Sonic fans" in Seattle will get defensive and disagree, but it was true.  

I'm not sure how anyone can possibly say the Boston fans are weak when they clearly helped the Celtics win during the playoffs... they couldn't get crap done away from those fans.   Definitely one of the strongest fanbases in the NBA.

[StartOrien]

He definitely has a point. I find that the jumbo tron is so dominant that I notice even when I'm watching the game at home. It's obvious when it comes on, and what's worse is that the fans don't keep up the energy past the 'make some noise!' sign.

[Chris]

That Garden crowd is one of the best in basketball.   Instead of comparing it to a team in the 80s or something, you should compare it to a team in another city.  I've said a few times that I saw several Sonic games at Key Arena in Seattle and none compared to the couple random games (both when we stunk and when we were good) I saw in Boston.  The "Sonic fans" in Seattle will get defensive and disagree, but it was true. 

I'm not sure how anyone can possibly say the Boston fans are weak when they clearly helped the Celtics win during the playoffs... they couldn't get crap done away from those fans.   Definitely one of the strongest fanbases in the NBA.

I don't think anyone said they were weak.  Ryan just said they were "reactionary".  Like I said before, I don't think its a bad thing.  I think crowds are supposed to be reactionary, and it leads to more real emotion that way.

[crownsy]

He definitely has a point. I find that the jumbo tron is so dominant that I notice even when I'm watching the game at home. It's obvious when it comes on, and what's worse is that the fans don't keep up the energy past the 'make some noise!' sign.

but if what you say there is true, then he didn't have a point, as he said that it's due to the fans not being ture fans of the game and understanding when they need to get into the game.

this above would imply, as i did in my post, that he's out of touch and the problem is in fact that the jumbo tron and numerous TV breaks are responsable for the reactionary nature of the crowd, and not the crowds inablity to maintain thier momentum when they start something on thier own (liek the playoff chants that were consitantly destroyed by blaring music coming on or the Tron showing some unrealted video)

[Section301]

I've been at 10-12 regular season games a year for the past 4 years, and at 4 playoff games this past season.  I also attended one playoff game at the Garden (the Dominique year where they were ousted by Orlando in the first round, so it's not like it was even during Bird's heyday).  There's no comparison. 

The fans these days are reactionary, and worse, look at you cock-eyed when you try to start a cheer other than those sanctioned by the jumbotron (believe me, I've tried). I suppose a lot of it is because we haven't really had anything to cheer for the last 20 years or so, so we're out of practice.   The only chants the crowd really got behind during the playoffs this year were "de-fense," or "let's go celtics" and that almost exclusively would be started by the canned sound system first.  On those rare occasions when the crowd did get smething going, it was frequently squashed by something happening on the jumbotron.  Especially during the playoffs, the last thing I want when the Celtics force the other team to take a timeout is to quiet the crowd down by giving it something on the jumbotron (or worse yet the dance team on the floor) to look at and take their cheering momentum away. 

The potential for raising the noise level at the new Garden is tremendous.  Seats in the balcony can be beaten like a drum, the rail around the top of the Garden has some great sound in it as well.  The metal risers where the end zone seats are have great potential for reverberation.  We have not come close to fully exploiting the noise potential.   I expect that will come with time.  Between being out of practice, and, quite frankly, being afraid that this whole season was a dream, I'm sure lots of people were a lot less aggressive than they will be this coming year.  Now thatthe championship is a reality, I think the fans do a better job of embracing their role as 6th man by driving the other team to utter distraction for a full 48. 

[eat ur wheaties]

I sure hope not.  No offense to 18-25 year olds (I am not very far removed myself), because I know it is a select few...but by the end of last year I got very sick of the college kids who came to the game just to get loaded, pick fights for no good reason, get up to get beer/go to the bathroom every 5 minutes, and then spill the beer on everyone they pass when they return without even apologizing.

Maybe I am just being a bit of a season ticket snob here, but it seems like whenever there is a group of college kids (and honestly, it was worse when there was girls with them, because the guys would then compound things by trying to impress the girls with their idiocy), you could tell it was going to be a long night.

If they did start trying to market to that age group even more, I have a feeling those are the kids who would end up with tickets, rather than the ones who are actually fans, and want to watch the game.

aah, the power of stupid people in large groups.  the 1st part came out wrong now that i look at it.  what i was trying to say was that they should cater to the real fans who will not only watch the game, but also cheer and get loud (w/o the jumbotron's consent).  i can watch them at home whenever, but when i go to the garden (2x a season), i go to scream 'til my lungs are sore.  after a long week of work, theres nothing better than unwinding by watching the guys in green.  ive been to games when they were terrible (i recall one game they played vs the post-mj bulls; lost in OT, randy brown had like 30 pts for them) and i cheered for them like they were the champs, cuz theyre my/our Celtics.

[guava_wrench]

Call me out of touch too, but I have to agree with Ryan. I've seen some college basketball crowds that can be pretty boisterous all game long here in New England no matter the score that put the fans in the Garden to shame. With the exception of playoff basketball, they have been a notoriously very quiet crowd for the better part of three decades.

And don't get me going on that spoiled bunch of losers over at Gillette. I attended games there in the 80's when they sucked and were getting beaten regularly at home that were 10 times more loud and into the game than the current group. I swear, by Kraft trying to make it a more family oriented atmosphere, that he took the teeth out of what once was a pretty good home field advantage.

You are bringing up college kids? Of course they are louder. Alston is noisy too. That isn't the appropriate comparison.

First of all, it is just plain stupid to generalize about the fans at the garden. What NBA arena is he comparing the crowd to anyway?

Being a season ticket holder in the loge, I have had my share of bad experiences with fans shooting me looks for my emphatic and loud (and positive) cheering all game. I have also had to deal with idiots who yell coaching critiques all game and yell criticisms of every missed shot with the preposterous assumption that a missed shot is a poorly selected shot.

There are also quite a few fans who are too 'sophisticated' to cheer or to even wear green. I find most annoying the Celtics fans who show up in blue when we are playing the Cavs and who take the free t-shirt but refuse to wear it even though it fits.

Personally, I have also found the arena noises to be annoying at times when we are starting a chant, and then we get drowned out by cheesy metal music.

One thing clowns like Ryan, who I doubt does any cheering of his own, don't get is cheering is tiring. It is hard to keep it up every game and still be able to talk the next day or the next game. Apart from this, not all people are comfortable yelling in public.

[BballTim]

Call me out of touch too, but I have to agree with Ryan. I've seen some college basketball crowds that can be pretty boisterous all game long here in New England no matter the score that put the fans in the Garden to shame. With the exception of playoff basketball, they have been a notoriously very quiet crowd for the better part of three decades.

And don't get me going on that spoiled bunch of losers over at Gillette. I attended games there in the 80's when they sucked and were getting beaten regularly at home that were 10 times more loud and into the game than the current group. I swear, by Kraft trying to make it a more family oriented atmosphere, that he took the teeth out of what once was a pretty good home field advantage.

  I hate Gillette. The fact that you have to weave your way in and out of all the stores to get to it gives it a "mall" atmosphere. And the acoustics are terrible for generating fan noise.

[nickagneta]

Call me out of touch too, but I have to agree with Ryan. I've seen some college basketball crowds that can be pretty boisterous all game long here in New England no matter the score that put the fans in the Garden to shame. With the exception of playoff basketball, they have been a notoriously very quiet crowd for the better part of three decades.

And don't get me going on that spoiled bunch of losers over at Gillette. I attended games there in the 80's when they sucked and were getting beaten regularly at home that were 10 times more loud and into the game than the current group. I swear, by Kraft trying to make it a more family oriented atmosphere, that he took the teeth out of what once was a pretty good home field advantage.

You are bringing up college kids? Of course they are louder. Alston is noisy too. That isn't the appropriate comparison.

First of all, it is just plain stupid to generalize about the fans at the garden. What NBA arena is he comparing the crowd to anyway?

Being a season ticket holder in the loge, I have had my share of bad experiences with fans shooting me looks for my emphatic and loud (and positive) cheering all game. I have also had to deal with idiots who yell coaching critiques all game and yell criticisms of every missed shot with the preposterous assumption that a missed shot is a poorly selected shot.

There are also quite a few fans who are too 'sophisticated' to cheer or to even wear green. I find most annoying the Celtics fans who show up in blue when we are playing the Cavs and who take the free t-shirt but refuse to wear it even though it fits.

Personally, I have also found the arena noises to be annoying at times when we are starting a chant, and then we get drowned out by cheesy metal music.

One thing clowns like Ryan, who I doubt does any cheering of his own, don't get is cheering is tiring. It is hard to keep it up every game and still be able to talk the next day or the next game. Apart from this, not all people are comfortable yelling in public.

Actually that's not very nice to call my characterization of the Garden crowd stupid. And having been to an average of about 10 games a year for the past 20 years, I can say that my generalization is fairly correct.

On occasion the crowd is very into games. That is by far the except and not the rule. Very seldom, especially on Monday and Tuesday night games is there any real noise in the place until the game gets tight in the fourth quarter and even then, sometimes not so much. Friday and Saturday night games are better but I'm sorry, it is a fairly dead crowd for a vast majority of the home games during the year and it has been like that for a long time.

Maybe it's the building. Maybe more comfortable seats, air conditioning, tighter security, and worse teams that the Garden crowd got after moving out of the Old Garden hurt the atmosphere. But it can be dead in there at times and for whole games. This past year because of the excitement generated by the pre-game announcements and the new star players there was definitely more excitement early, but in past years you could hear a pin drop in the place for the better part of the first half on most nights.

And I think it is reasonable to compare the excitement to college games. College crowds, at least here in New England tend to be a whole lot smaller than the Celtics crowd but I've been in the Dunkin Doughnuts Center, the Mullins Center, and the Matthews Arena for college games and the life of the crowds are palpable and you don't only have college kids there either. The crowds are smaller yet noisier and more vivid and full of life. There's no reason a pro crowd can't be like that. The crowds in Sacramento, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio are always pretty boisterous and the Fenway and Bruins crowds are a lot more fun and noisy than the Celtics crowd.

[crownsy]

And I think it is reasonable to compare the excitement to college games. College crowds, at least here in New England tend to be a whole lot smaller than the Celtics crowd but I've been in the Dunkin Doughnuts Center, the Mullins Center, and the Matthews Arena for college games and the life of the crowds are palpable and you don't only have college kids there either. The crowds are smaller yet noisier and more vivid and full of life. There's no reason a pro crowd can't be like that. The crowds in Sacramento, Oklahoma City, and San Antonio are always pretty boisterous and the Fenway and Bruins crowds are a lot more fun and noisy than the Celtics crowd.

I was with you up to here nick. oklahoma city's crowds are horrid, and san antinio is calle dout every year (including this year) for not being as involved in spurs games as they should be.

The fenway omparision is also not true. I go to way mroe sox games than celtics games, due to a friend of mine being a season ticket holder. while it may be true that the pre 2004 fenway crowds were great, the 2004+ crowds are the DEFINTION of what you accuse the garden fans off. they are into the game "boistriosly" exactly 3 times.

1. Sweet caroline, annoyingly they now play this song regardless of score. one game i was at, we were down 12-2 and it played and the whole crowd sang along like happy idiots, the first time they had shown life in 5 innings.

2. pap's entrance music.

3. when a guy gets 2 strikes on the batter.

other than that, the fenway crowd is the very defintion of reactionary, which in my mind is fine, but you can't have it both ways. If the celtics crowd's main problem is that they only react, then the fenway crowd is 100 times worse, as they only go nuts at prescribed points. and trust me, outside of the bleachers, most of the fans could care less about anything but Homeruns and set piece songs. They don't get into pitching AT ALL unless its the generic "oh two strikes, stop text messaging and stand up hun"