Bird-Magic-Jordan

[zerophase]

see i've also never seen these players play and my issue is... sure bird made a ton of clutch plays, sure he had some  magical moments, but like a lot of people said, for every game winning shot he made, he missed one too. i mean if you put together a highlight reel of pierce, he would look like a god too. was bird really magical all the time? i say no because it is impossible to do so. therefore, aren't we just over rating past players? it's very common that player's reputations supersede them.

Do you really think the fans on here are making their assessment of Larry Bird based on highlight reels, though?  I mean, yes, the guy was that magical.  He and Magic were the two most exciting players I've ever seen play.  No, they didn't hit every clutch shot they took, but they made them much more often than most players, or even most stars.

See, the youtube videos you see of Larry, Magic, Michael, et. al....  those aren't highlight reels in the sense of Gerald Green youtube highlights, where every highlight of his entire career is condensed into three minutes.  If you wanted to show all of the great plays of Larry Bird's career, you'd have a 16 hour dvd, rather than a 3 minute highlight clip.  Remember a couple years ago, when Paul Pierce had his streak of something like eight 30+ point games in a row, and we were all in awe?  Well, that was Larry, night in, night out, for about seven straight seasons.  The guy was amazing.

nothing to disrespect the players in the past but i'm just sayin, when you grow up idolizing a player, sometimes people get the idea they're more godly (i used this term but you could replace it with better) than they actually were. then they watch a highlight reel and they realized wow, he really was that [dang] good, forgetting all bad about the person. its human to do so, especially when you're basing your opinion on your faded memories.

there are several youtube games up of bird in the finals in 86. i watched the full games, hoping, wanting to be very impressed, and was let disappointed. sure maybe larry wasn't on the top of his game those nights but that's just my take.

[nickagneta]

see i've also never seen these players play and my issue is... sure bird made a ton of clutch plays, sure he had some  magical moments, but like a lot of people said, for every game winning shot he made, he missed one too. i mean if you put together a highlight reel of pierce, he would look like a god too. was bird really magical all the time? i say no because it is impossible to do so. therefore, aren't we just over rating past players? it's very common that player's reputations supersede them.

Do you really think the fans on here are making their assessment of Larry Bird based on highlight reels, though?  I mean, yes, the guy was that magical.  He and Magic were the two most exciting players I've ever seen play.  No, they didn't hit every clutch shot they took, but they made them much more often than most players, or even most stars.

See, the youtube videos you see of Larry, Magic, Michael, et. al....  those aren't highlight reels in the sense of Gerald Green youtube highlights, where every highlight of his entire career is condensed into three minutes.  If you wanted to show all of the great plays of Larry Bird's career, you'd have a 16 hour dvd, rather than a 3 minute highlight clip.  Remember a couple years ago, when Paul Pierce had his streak of something like eight 30+ point games in a row, and we were all in awe?  Well, that was Larry, night in, night out, for about seven straight seasons.  The guy was amazing.

nothing to disrespect the players in the past but i'm just sayin, when you grow up idolizing a player, sometimes people get the idea they're more godly (i used this term but you could replace it with better) than they actually were. then they watch a highlight reel and they realized wow, he really was that [dang] good, forgetting all bad about the person. its human to do so, especially when you're basing your opinion on your faded memories.

there are several youtube games up of bird in the finals in 86. i watched the full games, hoping, wanting to be very impressed, and was let disappointed. sure maybe larry wasn't on the top of his game those nights but that's just my take.

Having watched every game Larry Bird ever played and a whole bunch of Magic and Michael, let me tell you zerophase that your highlight reel takes and two games watched of Bird and quite possibly your youth, are making it very difficult for you to come to an informed opinion on Larry. Larry was easily twice the player Paul Pierce is. Easily.

Paul's a clutch player. Larry probably played more clutch games in his first 5 years than Pierce has his whole career. Larry was a fantastic rebounder, had passing skills equal to Magic, Nash, or Kidd, and just a sweet outside shot and he was the first big man to incorporate the three point shot into his arsenal and he was a deadly 3 pt shooter.

If there was ever a way for you to go back and watch the 1981 Sixers-Celtics series or the entire 86 season, just a much larger sampling of games than you have, you would understand the greatness that was Larry.

[zerophase]

blame it on my youth then. it's just hard to believe how great someone is when all you really do is hear how great they are. anyways, i take all of these poster's words but still hard to be to believe before i can truly see for myself, which i can't.

[JR Giddens]

Post above me- I'm 14 years old

After hearing MJ is the master for all these years I saw the 1992 All-star game on ESPN Classic and MJ missed the game winning shot!

I was stunned for like 20 seconds!

MJ never missed any shots in the MJ specials I've seen??

[KCattheStripe]

Can I ask a question to all the older fellows out there: Why is it never "Bird-Magic-Kareem-Jordan"? Why does the NBA all time leading scorer and six time MVP never get mentioned with these three?

[Redz]

Post above me- I'm 14 years old

After hearing MJ is the master for all these years I saw the 1992 All-star game on ESPN Classic and MJ missed the game winning shot!

I was stunned for like 20 seconds!

MJ never missed any shots in the MJ specials I've seen??

Ask the Cleveland Cavs how many clutch shot MJ missed against them.  Jordan was a living hyperbole in his prime. 

[Redz]

Can I ask a question to all the older fellows out there: Why is it never "Bird-Magic-Kareem-Jordan"? Why does the NBA all time leading scorer and six time MVP never get mentioned with these three?

I think that can be chalked up to Kareem's longevity.  Though he was still dominant in the 80's those Lakers teams were basically considered Magic's.  Kareem's dominant years in the 70's were more credited to his own doing.  Not necessarily fair, but that's my perspective on why he's not mentioned in the same breath.

[KCattheStripe]

Can I ask a question to all the older fellows out there: Why is it never "Bird-Magic-Kareem-Jordan"? Why does the NBA all time leading scorer and six time MVP never get mentioned with these three?

I think that can be chalked up to Kareem's longevity.  Though he was still dominant in the 80's those Lakers teams were basically considered Magic's.  Kareem's dominance in the 70's were more credited to his own doing.  Not necessarily fair, but that's my perspective on why he's not mentioned in the same breath.

I guess thats fair, I'm just not sure why, when discussing the greatest of all time, Kareem's name isn't brought up more. It seems like the consensus top five, in any order, Michael/Magic/Larry/Russell/Wilt. I don't know why Kareem doesn't crack that top 5.

[Redz]

Can I ask a question to all the older fellows out there: Why is it never "Bird-Magic-Kareem-Jordan"? Why does the NBA all time leading scorer and six time MVP never get mentioned with these three?

I think that can be chalked up to Kareem's longevity.  Though he was still dominant in the 80's those Lakers teams were basically considered Magic's.  Kareem's dominance in the 70's were more credited to his own doing.  Not necessarily fair, but that's my perspective on why he's not mentioned in the same breath.

I guess thats fair, I'm just not sure why, when discussing the greatest of all time, Kareem's name isn't brought up more. It seems like the consensus top five, in any order, Michael/Magic/Larry/Russell/Wilt. I don't know why Kareem doesn't crack that top 5.

I think the OPs point was not about Bird, Magic & Jordan necessarily being the 3 best ever, but how stars from their era would stack up today. 

You're right though, Kareem does get the shaft in the debates about all time greats.  Especially if you throw in his Lew Alcindor UCLA days.

[JBcat]

I love Pierce but watching most of Larry's games growing up it's not even close.  There is not 1 forward since Bird that has come close to his passing ability and he had basically 4 years in a row of 50%FG, 40%3PT, and 90%FT,scoring in the high 20s while all the while getting 10 boards a game.  Just sick stuff he was doing.   However I will say Larry had the luxury of playing with other great players just about all of his career while the best player Paul ever played with was Antoine Walker up until last year going into his 10th season in the league.  Yes Larry was unbelievably clutch but he also had many more opportunities to be clutch being surrounded by better players.  Larry's career though could have been even greater.  He was a bit of an older rookie at age 23/24 and the last 4 years or so of his career were derailed by injuries.   If he started off his career at the age of most rookies today and didn't have the injuries at the end his career he would have been off the charts if he wasn't already.  Going back to Larry always playing with great players he won 3 championships out of 5 times in the finals with his edition of the big 3.  With our current edition of the big 3 I wonder how many times they would have been to the finals if they played with each other since they were say 24.   Going to the finals several times in Paul's career with other greats would certainly elevate his status some more.   Maybe that's a topic for another thread.  

Magic is simply put the best point guard who has ever played and would dominate in any era.  

Jordan in today's game with the hand checks rules now in place would absolutely destroy everyone even more than he did in the 90s.  Kobe Bryant is no Jordan however Jordan won 3 titles after the age of 30 so Kobe still has a chance to close the gap.     If you never watched Jordan play live I'd recommend watching any of his videos that came out in the 90s and there are several of them.  

[KCattheStripe]

Can I ask a question to all the older fellows out there: Why is it never "Bird-Magic-Kareem-Jordan"? Why does the NBA all time leading scorer and six time MVP never get mentioned with these three?

I think that can be chalked up to Kareem's longevity.  Though he was still dominant in the 80's those Lakers teams were basically considered Magic's.  Kareem's dominance in the 70's were more credited to his own doing.  Not necessarily fair, but that's my perspective on why he's not mentioned in the same breath.

I guess thats fair, I'm just not sure why, when discussing the greatest of all time, Kareem's name isn't brought up more. It seems like the consensus top five, in any order, Michael/Magic/Larry/Russell/Wilt. I don't know why Kareem doesn't crack that top 5.

I think the OPs point was not about Bird, Magic & Jordan necessarily being the 3 best ever, but how stars from their era would stack up today. 

You're right though, Kareem does get the shaft in the debates about all time greats.  Especially if you throw in his Lew Alcindor UCLA days.

I think of all the greats of yesteryear, you could plug Kareem into the modern NBA and he'd be the closest to a dominant player. Larry might have issues guarding the stronger small forwards ( like LeBron). How would Magic re act to a zone? Russell never had to box-out Shaq for a rebound, can he move a man that big? What about Dwight Howard? I know it might be blasphemous to say on this sight, but I think Wilt and Kareem would have the easiest time adapting to today's NBA.

[RebusRankin]

Russell boxed out Wilt and Nate Thurmond who were the same size as many current centers. Larry guarded athletic forwards like Wilkins and Nance in his day. Plus you have to take into account players from yesteryear would have the advantage of the nutrition and workout programs today's players do. They'd also have access to video to study their opponents. Think of what a Basketball mind like Bird and Magic would do with that. Plus as others have said the older players knew how to play the game. Some current greats like Kobe, Lebron, Melo etc struggled with pick and roll d and how to shoot from the outside.

[KCattheStripe]

Russell boxed out Wilt and Nate Thurmond who were the same size as many current centers. Larry guarded athletic forwards like Wilkins and Nance in his day. Plus you have to take into account players from yesteryear would have the advantage of the nutrition and workout programs today's players do. They'd also have access to video to study their opponents. Think of what a Basketball mind like Bird and Magic would do with that. Plus as others have said the older players knew how to play the game. Some current greats like Kobe, Lebron, Melo etc struggled with pick and roll d and how to shoot from the outside.

I wasn't talking about how they would do with the advantages of today's players, I was talking if you literally took them in their prime and put them in today's NBA.

Also, Larry was not a lock down defender. He was sneaky, and clever and had good hands, but he was not a shut down defender. And I certainly do not think he could guard Lebron.

Bird and Magic didn't have video tape? they were using film in high school football in the 1960's.

Not trying to diminish their greatness, but I think that they would have trouble with players in todays NBA just like today's NBA players would have difficulty stopping a 6'9" point guard in transition, or stopping a 6'10" SF who can shoot from anywhere with either hand. I am convinced though, that in a championship game, both in their prime, Russell could not handle Shaq. Just flat couldn't.

[JBcat]

Russell boxed out Wilt and Nate Thurmond who were the same size as many current centers. Larry guarded athletic forwards like Wilkins and Nance in his day. Plus you have to take into account players from yesteryear would have the advantage of the nutrition and workout programs today's players do. They'd also have access to video to study their opponents. Think of what a Basketball mind like Bird and Magic would do with that. Plus as others have said the older players knew how to play the game. Some current greats like Kobe, Lebron, Melo etc struggled with pick and roll d and how to shoot from the outside.

I wasn't talking about how they would do with the advantages of today's players, I was talking if you literally took them in their prime and put them in today's NBA.

Also, Larry was not a lock down defender. He was sneaky, and clever and had good hands, but he was not a shut down defender. And I certainly do not think he could guard Lebron.

Bird and Magic didn't have video tape? they were using film in high school football in the 1960's.

Not trying to diminish their greatness, but I think that they would have trouble with players in todays NBA just like today's NBA players would have difficulty stopping a 6'9" point guard in transition, or stopping a 6'10" SF who can shoot from anywhere with either hand. I am convinced though, that in a championship game, both in their prime, Russell could not handle Shaq. Just flat couldn't.

Just making a small point if your talking about Bird guarding Lebron if it was the Celtics of the 80s verses the Cavs last year I would put DJ one of the best defenders of his era on Lebron, Ainge on D West, and Bird on Wally  if we are looking at matchups in the starting lineup so I doubt we would see the Bird James matchup very much. There are these freakish athletes of just about any era Shawn Kemp, Dr J, Oscar Robertson, the human highlight film, Clyde Drexler, so to say there is there is this huge gap in athletic ability between eras I'm not totally buying it.  There is a gap but I don't think it's as much as some think than say from the 80s when Jordan, Bird, and Magic played compared to today.  Look at the Lakers team alone back then they were full of athletes James Worthy, Michael Cooper, Bryon Scott, ect.  What about this scenario if people are going to use Bird on Lebron.   Who from this era is honestly going to slow down Charles Barkley during his freight train days in the 80s at Philly?  Maybe KG that's about it. 

[KCattheStripe]

I wasn't comparing teams, just players. SO I'm talking about one on one matchups, still I don't think DJ on LeBron is that good an option either. As to who would stop Barkley, Are we talking defenders in the post Michael era?

Duncan
KG
Shaq
Rasheed
Alonzo
Bosh, Howard and Chandler can stay with him.