It has to be finally asked . Why so much infatuation with Antoine Walker?

[nickagneta]

It needs to be asked because I just don't get it. Why is there such an infatuation with Antoine Walker talk on this website? And I mean in both directions. The infatuation of always trying to bring back Antoine Walker and the infatuation with ripping on the guy.

Does it have to do with age? Are most of you guys who love Walker and forever pine for his return to the Celtics younger than 25? Was Walker the first good Celtic you were ever exposed to and is he your boyhood idol?

Does it have to do with style? Are most of you guys that criticize Walker haters of his style of game where he is a power forward that plays like a poor shooting point guard? Does Walker's game just seem unCeltic to you?

Late me say I am prohibitively against his ever returning to the Celtics. I just think at this point he brings nothing to this team that this team would ever need. I also think his game has passed him and that he has never had the off season work ethic to get him into the shape he would need to be to make him attractive to Boston.

I also have to say that I enjoyed watching Walker when he was with the Celtics and that during the season he gave this franchise everything he had. It wasn't his fault that Pitino ruined him and that he never had a veteran presence to teach him the ways of the NBA both on the court and off, in season and out. 

That said, to me he's just another Celtic that did very little to advance Celtic basketball during one of their worst periods in team history. He played out of position, he shot outside way too much, he dribbled too much, he never came back the next season with a new wrinkle, a better shot, a better free throw percentage or in better overall physical condition. But he played with intensity and heart and it was pretty obvious he hated losing and he expended every bit of energy in the attempt to win a game, even if it wasn't always the smartest way to expend his energy.

So please, someone, please, explain to me the infatuation with Antoine Walker. There have been so many more deserving players in celtic history that deserve our accolades and attention more than Walker, yet it is always the subject of Toine that continues to be brought up time and again.

Why is that.

I myself am 43 years old and have memories that go back to JoJo, Hondo, Cowens, Rowe, Wicks and that crew. I have my favorite Celtics. Walker is not even in my top ten favorite Celtics that I have seen play so maybe it's just that I'm not as in tune with my inner Toine but what do people see in this guy that makes them either love him or hate him so much.

Personally, I think he had extraordinary God given talent that he squandered because of a lack of discipline in the offseason and because of his own personal ego. I think Pitino should be held accountable for a lot of that allowing Walker to do basically anything he wanted to do during his formative years, but ultimately Walker should have been more than he was and he is ultimately responsible for that.

[LB3533]

Because he bled green in his own way.

Because he was so much fun and so infuriating to watch play.

Because he helped the franchise push towards it's rightful direction.

[quidinqui33]

For Celtics fans of the 80's and the newbies of the 90's, Toine was the first legit star we had after Reggie passed away.  He was the first sign of a future for the celtics.  He was actually very promising his first several years.  Good enough to earn the cover of NBA2K or NBALive (can't remember).  They even digitized his wiggle for crying out loud.  His game had wartz though, but we all just knew he would grow out of them.  Sadly, he never did change his game and that's why people started to dislike him as a celtic.  Each year we lost, it was that much easier to blame Toine because he was the new face of the celtics, eventhough a yound pierce clearly was becoming the better player.

As much as people may have not like Toine's game though, I doubt that anyone on this board, truly disliked Toine the person.  He always seemed happy, he dressed sharp when on the bench, never got in any off the court trouble.  You could just tell the guy loved to play ball and he loved to be a celtic.  That is what makes everyone still hold on to Toine.  He just plain loved being a celtic and that has always been obvious.  The guy came to playoff games this year to support the team.

Sure in his mind, he thought he was one of the best players in the league.  But that's what was so beautiful about it.  He truly beleived he was one of the best even though he had such a quirky game.  He truly beleived in himself and as odd as his game was, he managed to win us some games in an otherwise bad time in celtics basketball.

Toine was with the celts, just like us diehards, during the tough times and bleeding green the whole time and playing his quirky game.  He'll never be one of the best celtics to have played, but for a lot of us, he'll be one of the favorites.

[Redz]

I think this may be just as much a Boston fan thing as much as it is an Antoine thing.  We always want our guys back.  I think with Antoine, the fact that he was already brought back once makes the idea all the more tantalizing to some, and doable to others.

Many seem to think Antoine & Pierce should be joined at the hip too.

For me, I like Antoine and would welcome him back in a small role if he'd accept it, but I just don't see it happening.

[hwangjini_1]

oh boy, oh boy. one more toine thread. now let's please expand it to include gerald green.

i can hardly wait!

[Potapenko Boxout]

because he is the best Celtics of my lifetime, that's why.


now shut up about it

[Evantime34]

Because he bled green in his own way.

Because he was so much fun and so infuriating to watch play.

Because he helped the franchise push towards it's rightful direction.

I chose to quote this because I agree with all of his comments. I am going to add a few of my own.
1. He was an important part of the surprise team that lost to NJ in the playoffs
2. He was the heart and soul of so many bad Celtics team that he should be able to enjoy our success.
3. THE WIGGLE, seriously how can people not like the wiggle?

[Fastbreak]

We laughed, we cried we kissed several seasons goodbye....ah Toine..I had the good fortune to spend time with worker #8 and he loved this City and team (still does)..he never acted like a multi-millionare..gave of his time to inner city kids of Boston (and still does)...when he decides to end his time in the NBA, I hope the Celtics can find a way for Mr. Walker to finish it in Green...

[zerophase]

i'm completely fine with walker. i remember when he got traded back to us and we made that little run where we went 8-0 i think and finally made the playoffs. i was excited.

[Andy Jick]

now shut up about it

real nice...

nick: i agree...though i'm a few years younger than you (by 7), i am a child of the '80's basketball generation (without a doubt, the BEST generation of the nba).  antoine was the most frustrating "star" player i've ever witnessed.  had he chiseled his body and became a low-post threat and ditched the infatuation with the three point shot, he could have legitimately been one of the greatest players ever.

if he played for a coach that provided more discipline (his first pro "coach" (*cough*) was m.l. carr), and didn't have rick pitino pointing out his every flaw, he could have become something much different.

but i've never hated and loved a player as much as 'toine.

[cordobes]

Because he bled green in his own way.

Because he was so much fun and so infuriating to watch play.

Because he helped the franchise push towards it's rightful direction.

I chose to quote this because I agree with all of his comments. I am going to add a few of my own.
1. He was an important part of the surprise team that lost to NJ in the playoffs
2. He was the heart and soul of so many bad Celtics team that he should be able to enjoy our success.
3. THE WIGGLE, seriously how can people not like the wiggle?

I'll add:

1. That speech to Paul before the 4th quarter of that epic comeback versus the Nets and how happy and exhausted he was afterwards.

2. He offered the world the 4 points quote.

I'd love to see Walker back in town....



....after he retires as a player.

[Jon]

I think a lot of the reasons were covered:
-he was a big part of the Celtics for a long time
-he had superstar talent, and teased us for years
-he was brought back once already.

I was a Toine fan for a long time.  I still am to an extent.  He and Pierce did a lot with a little around the millennium.  Still, for me, the mystery of Toine will always be intriguing  On one hand he was turnover prone, dominated the ball, shot too many bad threes, couldn't finish bunnies in the lane, and could be annoying at times.  However, on the other hand, he had a knack for the big play, could always inspire a team, and made Pierce better.  For all the pointing to his subpart fg % and turnover rates, it's hard to ignore the fact the C's got significantly worse both times they traded him away and got significantly better when they reacquired him. 

That said, at this point, I've gotten over the whole Toine thing.  While I wouldn't mind if Danny brought him back for one last hurrah, even if Toine is in shape, his skill set isn't exactly what this team needs right now (we have enough undersized power forwards)

[nickagneta]

Maybe it's me but I still don't get it. I see guys like Reggie Lewis, Cedric Maxwell, Dino Radja, Dee Brown and others that bled Green when they were here. They gave everything they ever had when here. They loved Boston. And like Walker they were good mid level to upper level talents that played for long periods of their career here.

But there just doesn't seem to be the absolute love or absolute hate for these players like there is for Antoine. I don't find Antoine any more or any less likable than any of these other guys, who at one time or another headlined Celtic teams that were doomed never to win it all just like Walker.

Heck, before the Championship, I saw less love for Paul Pierce than I did for Antoine Walker in a very large section of this membership. Or at least it seemed that way to me. And I never understood it because I always thought Pierce was 10 times the player and 10 times the Celtic than Antoine ever was. But Antoine got the "come on back we love you" threads every month and Pierce got at least 1-2 threads ripping him for something every month.

Never understood that. Never will.

[ma11l]

I think this clip defines the Antoine era:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjUIjfQfjCg&feature=related


A.) It was his 15th 3 pointer attempted in the game
B.) He hit the clutch shot at MSG
C.) The Wiggle.


There is plenty to discuss about the guy.  I agree that there are too many threads about bringing him back.  I don't think we should have him on this current squad.  I do still love the guy and enjoy discussing him.

[cdif911]

antoine walker may be the most polarizing individual in the last 20 years of Boston sports, perhaps Manny will take his spot, time will tell - but I think old school c's fans hated Walker because he represented something new, different, a new type on NBA player.  To the younger fans, myself included, he was the face of the franchise - I was very happy to see him get the title in Miami, much like many B's fans were likely to enjoy Raymond Borque's title in Colorado (even like Minny fans probably enjoyed KG's title this year) - Walker was a passionate as heck basketball player, a showman, unconventional - he was the Boston Celtics for nearly a decade. Now to bring him back, it would be nostalgia no doubt, he doesn't bring anything to the table that would help the team, but it'd be a feel good, good karma type thing imo - I know other guys have worn 8 since Toine left, but I wonder if someday it'll hang next to 34...it'd be fitting