Melo's problem in a nutshell

[crownsy]

its more the DWI, punching a player and running like a school girl, and pot (supposedly former, to be fair) that makes me think of him as immature, but if you want to go with tatto's, thats your call.

"Punching a player and running like a school girl" - or backing away after realizing what he did and not wanting to escalate the situation. He must be a thug.

again, way to attack your own issue and try to say its part of my argument. it never was and never will be.

awnser the actual question in the post.

[soap07]

again, i liek how it tries to use his offensive prowess as proof he has a great work ethic, i've always stipulated he's a great scorer. he's certainly an elite scorer, and a decent rebounder. I never questioned that in my assertions. I asked for proof on how he's improved his overall game since he came into the league. saying he's an elite scorer doesn't do that, he's been an elite scorer since his soph year.

Do you not see the improvement in his offensive game or are you choosing not to? And how do you discount the improvement in both his assists and rebounding since he's entering the league?

You're essentially saying he has no work ethic with literally no evidence other than "you never hear about it". I point out that his overall statistics (not just offensively) have improved over the course of his career which actually evidences a strong work ethic. He's not just a decent rebounder. He's a great rebounder for a small forward. So tell me - why is he lazy?

[soap07]

awnser my  question, which you decided not to qoute. why is this relevant to the discussion of his desire to work on his total game when i already allowed that maturity isn't a barrier to working on your overall game? (see: pierce, paul) you brought in the "you hate him because he's a thug" i said that wasen't the case, and now your hammering on the issue you brought up because you don't have an awesnser for the question posed.

Okay, tell me how you know that he doesn't have the desire to work on his overall game. His assists, rebounding and offensive game have all improved since he entered the league. Clearly, that lazyness must be doing something right.

[fairweatherfan]

<Snip>

you could say that, it would be unture, but you could say it.
<snip>

If he gave a [dang] about his game, AT ALL, he'd already be able to play better defense and handel better. but he doesn't seem to care. He's content with being a great scorer, which he no doubt is.
<snip>

Um...so Anthony hasn't shown much defensively up to this point in his career, is somewhat turnover prone, and focuses too much on scoring, and these are ways that he's DIFFERENT from a young Paul Pierce? 

Carmelo was 23 during the regular season this year - here are his stats and Pierce's stats for the season during which he was 23 (00-01):

                FG %  3P%  Turn  Blk  Stl  Reb  Ast  PPG
           -----------------------------------------------------
Pierce:    .454   .383    3.2    .8   1.7   6.3   3.1   25.3
Anthony: .492   .354    3.3    .5   1.3   7.4   3.4   25.7

Just slightly similar.  And during his 1 year at Syracuse, Anthony was known as a so-so post player who mostly got by on physical dominance - his jump shot was also very streaky.  Most people don't realize he played by far his best ball of his life during the NCAAs that year, and quite a bit of that came from hard work and gaining the confidence and basketball IQ to use his physical advantages.  Despite the flaws in his game, he is a far superior player now than he was then, but his great tourney in college and lack of success in the NBA tend to cloud that and make it seem like he's been treading water since then.  Remember, this is a guy who was a totally unknown 6 foot nothing point guard until he hit a huge growth spurt his junior year of high school - regaining coordination over a new body like that takes quite a bit of time and, yes, work.

The analogy's not perfect, but the numbers are very similar and the attitude definitely is.  I just hate seeing the usual suspects pile on without knowing anything about the guy, or realizing that a lack of playoff success doesn't mean a player is lazy and will never succeed.

sicne you both put out posts, i'll respond to them sepratly.

what your missing here is the crux of the argument. no one is saying anthony isn't very good, espically on offense. I think he's a fine second player on a good team. He lacks the desier to be great. I already said melo is a great offensive guy. you just proved he's a great offensive guy. not real sure what your point was.

my point was that he hasen't worked to improve his skill set outside offense, something that saying he has and then comparing him to a 23 year old pierce has no bearing on, all it does is prove they were both good offensive players at 23. considering i said melo is a great offensive player, and always has been, i fail to see what im supposed to take away from that set up to change my opnion.

as to his work ethic, i dunno, getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run, not wanting to work for his spot on this team, takign a swing at a 5'10 guy and getting himself suspended for half a season, his complete lack of address to his biggest flaw, namely defense, and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring, all those speak to me, as well as karl calling his team out over, and over, and over again for not playing defense, yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night..

You stated that the analogy between Pierce and Anthony was incorrect except for the attitude issue - I showed that their numbers were basically the same, and as most posters have said, Pierce had similar issues with defensive effort.  I think Pierce had shown more flashes of defensive ability at that age, but I'm probably biased cause I saw far more Celtics games then than I do Nuggets games now.  The Nuggets give up a lot of points but are actually 10th in defensive efficiency - an above-average team.  I'll concede they have overall defensive issues, but I don't know how that reflects on Carmelo specifically.

I don't know how taking a swing at a guy speaks to work ethic, though it does speak to maturity and general boneheadedness.  And he hit Jeffries (6'11"), not Nate Robinson, and was suspended for 15 games, not half the season.  A DUI is also stupid, but sadly a lot of professional athletes get them in and out of the season, and far, far more go out drinking during the season but don't drive (or don't get caught).  And, if you remember, the 3 year commitment is a big reason why Garnett's not out there right now - because he's done it before and doesn't want to give up so much of so many offseasons - and no one would question his work ethic on those grounds.



PS: Soap07 - Sorry, I was being sarcastic - guess it didn't come across.  Read my other posts.

[soap07]

as to his work ethic, i dunno, getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run, not wanting to work for his spot on this team, takign a swing at a 5'10 guy and getting himself suspended for half a season, his complete lack of address to his biggest flaw, namely defense, and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring, all those speak to me, as well as karl calling his team out over, and over, and over again for not playing defense, yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night..



"the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring,"

Wow.

"and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring,"

Again, with the lack of stories. Is rebounding the same thing as scoring? He improved that greatly last season even with the lack of stories. The same can't be said for the rest of his game I suppose.

"yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night.."

Are you in Carmelo's head? How do you know he doesn't care?

getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run

Again, does James Posey not have a work ethic because of his DUI?

[crownsy]

<Snip>

you could say that, it would be unture, but you could say it.
<snip>

If he gave a [dang] about his game, AT ALL, he'd already be able to play better defense and handel better. but he doesn't seem to care. He's content with being a great scorer, which he no doubt is.
<snip>

Um...so Anthony hasn't shown much defensively up to this point in his career, is somewhat turnover prone, and focuses too much on scoring, and these are ways that he's DIFFERENT from a young Paul Pierce? 

Carmelo was 23 during the regular season this year - here are his stats and Pierce's stats for the season during which he was 23 (00-01):

                FG %  3P%  Turn  Blk  Stl  Reb  Ast  PPG
           -----------------------------------------------------
Pierce:    .454   .383    3.2    .8   1.7   6.3   3.1   25.3
Anthony: .492   .354    3.3    .5   1.3   7.4   3.4   25.7

Just slightly similar.  And during his 1 year at Syracuse, Anthony was known as a so-so post player who mostly got by on physical dominance - his jump shot was also very streaky.  Most people don't realize he played by far his best ball of his life during the NCAAs that year, and quite a bit of that came from hard work and gaining the confidence and basketball IQ to use his physical advantages.  Despite the flaws in his game, he is a far superior player now than he was then, but his great tourney in college and lack of success in the NBA tend to cloud that and make it seem like he's been treading water since then.  Remember, this is a guy who was a totally unknown 6 foot nothing point guard until he hit a huge growth spurt his junior year of high school - regaining coordination over a new body like that takes quite a bit of time and, yes, work.

The analogy's not perfect, but the numbers are very similar and the attitude definitely is.  I just hate seeing the usual suspects pile on without knowing anything about the guy, or realizing that a lack of playoff success doesn't mean a player is lazy and will never succeed.

sicne you both put out posts, i'll respond to them sepratly.

what your missing here is the crux of the argument. no one is saying anthony isn't very good, espically on offense. I think he's a fine second player on a good team. He lacks the desier to be great. I already said melo is a great offensive guy. you just proved he's a great offensive guy. not real sure what your point was.

my point was that he hasen't worked to improve his skill set outside offense, something that saying he has and then comparing him to a 23 year old pierce has no bearing on, all it does is prove they were both good offensive players at 23. considering i said melo is a great offensive player, and always has been, i fail to see what im supposed to take away from that set up to change my opnion.

as to his work ethic, i dunno, getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run, not wanting to work for his spot on this team, takign a swing at a 5'10 guy and getting himself suspended for half a season, his complete lack of address to his biggest flaw, namely defense, and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring, all those speak to me, as well as karl calling his team out over, and over, and over again for not playing defense, yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night..

You stated that the analogy between Pierce and Anthony was incorrect except for the attitude issue - I showed that their numbers were basically the same, and as most posters have said, Pierce had similar issues with defensive effort.  I think Pierce had shown more flashes of defensive ability at that age, but I'm probably biased cause I saw far more Celtics games then than I do Nuggets games now.  The Nuggets give up a lot of points but are actually 10th in defensive efficiency - an above-average team.  I'll concede they have overall defensive issues, but I don't know how that reflects on Carmelo specifically.

I don't know how taking a swing at a guy speaks to work ethic, though it does speak to maturity and general boneheadedness.  And he hit Jeffries (6'11"), not Nate Robinson, and was suspended for 15 games, not half the season.  A DUI is also stupid, but sadly a lot of professional athletes get them in and out of the season, and far, far more go out drinking during the season but don't drive (or don't get caught).  And, if you remember, the 3 year commitment is a big reason why Garnett's not out there right now - because he's done it before and doesn't want to give up so much of so many offseasons - and no one would question his work ethic on those grounds.



PS: Soap07 - Sorry, I was being sarcastic - guess it didn't come across.  Read my other posts.

I said the comparision wasen't valid because it shows no growth. im intersted in the growth of skills, not the snapshot. my contention is melo hasen't improved defensivly in 5 years. a better comparision to show me im off base would be melo's numbers then and now defensivly.

[crownsy]

as to his work ethic, i dunno, getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run, not wanting to work for his spot on this team, takign a swing at a 5'10 guy and getting himself suspended for half a season, his complete lack of address to his biggest flaw, namely defense, and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring, all those speak to me, as well as karl calling his team out over, and over, and over again for not playing defense, yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night..



"the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring,"

Wow.

"and the complete lack of stories about him working on anything other than scoring,"

Again, with the lack of stories. Is rebounding the same thing as scoring? He improved that greatly last season even with the lack of stories. The same can't be said for the rest of his game I suppose.

"yet no one on that team seems to care that they give up 107 points a night.."

Are you in Carmelo's head? How do you know he doesn't care?

getting arrested for a DWI during a playoff run

Again, does James Posey not have a work ethic because of his DUI?

again, awenser the question in the original post your trying to attack, which your avoiding because you don't have an awenser, and then i'll think about addressing your attempt at a dodge for melo on posey. you've had 4 posts since then, but you still don't acknoledge the meat of that post, only the part where i was responding to YOU saying he was only thought of as a thug because of his tats, which is retarded, and has no bearing on the post your qouting.

I have never brought up that he was a thug, you brought me about not liking him because he was a thug, which isn't true, i responded, and now your tryign to pigeon hole that one argument because you can't awenser the question i asked you, and then defended him about being a "thug" to make your argument look better. I could car eless if he's immature off the court.

I have zero intrest in that, nor do i hold it against him, as i mentioned in the question your despretly trying to dodge, what does this have to do with his lack of work on the other facets of his game? paul was a dink to when he was melo's age, he was known as a hard worker and made himself a complete player.

also how is "wow" an response to criticism. you said there's plenty of proof out there about his work ethic on the defensive end, link me some and prove it. not "wow".

[fairweatherfan]

<MEGASNIP>
I said the comparision wasen't valid outside of offense. all you showed was offense. that was my issue with the comparision. If i had said "pierce was a better scorer" then that works. but i actually was supised paul was that good at 23 on that end of the floor.

How exactly, would you propose I "show defense"?  Individual defensive stats are very hard to quantify, as you know.  I already showed that the Nuggets, despite their high PPG allowed, were an above-average defensive team, and I've acknowledged all along that Carmelo has defensive effort problems, just like Paul did.  And, yes you did also mention offense in your original post:

"Pierce was always known to work hard in the offseason, and to polish area's of his game that he had problems in. thus how waaayyyyy before these last few years, he was known for having a deadly mid range game (which he lacked coming out of kansas) good 3 pt shooting ability (lacked coming out of kansas.) The ability to post up (lacked coming out of kansas) and better, if still not great ball handleling skills (while pierce still turns it over in pressure a bit to much, he improved this through hard work.)"

Don't change the argument on the fly on me, now - you said Pierce worked hard on offense, I showed that their offensive #s are similar at the same age.  You stated to another poster that Pierce didn't have good defensive effort in his early years, which is exactly what you're now saying is somehow different about Anthony.  You cited a fight and a DUI as evidence of poor work ethic, and I pointed out that that doesn't make sense, and that you had your facts wrong anyway.  The rest of your post was supposition: "the Nuggets don't care about defense" etc.  I'm not sure what's left of your argument, to be honest.

[crownsy]

<MEGASNIP>
I said the comparision wasen't valid outside of offense. all you showed was offense. that was my issue with the comparision. If i had said "pierce was a better scorer" then that works. but i actually was supised paul was that good at 23 on that end of the floor.

How exactly, would you propose I "show defense"?  Individual defensive stats are very hard to quantify, as you know.  I already showed that the Nuggets, despite their high PPG allowed, were an above-average defensive team, and I've acknowledged all along that Carmelo has defensive effort problems, just like Paul did.  And, yes you did also mention offense in your original post:

"Pierce was always known to work hard in the offseason, and to polish area's of his game that he had problems in. thus how waaayyyyy before these last few years, he was known for having a deadly mid range game (which he lacked coming out of kansas) good 3 pt shooting ability (lacked coming out of kansas.) The ability to post up (lacked coming out of kansas) and better, if still not great ball handleling skills (while pierce still turns it over in pressure a bit to much, he improved this through hard work.)"

Don't change the argument on the fly on me, now - you said Pierce worked hard on offense, I showed that their offensive #s are similar at the same age.  You stated to another poster that Pierce didn't have good defensive effort in his early years, which is exactly what you're now saying is somehow different about Anthony.  You cited a fight and a DUI as evidence of poor work ethic, and I pointed out that that doesn't make sense, and that you had your facts wrong anyway.  The rest of your post was supposition: "the Nuggets don't care about defense" etc.  I'm not sure what's left of your argument, to be honest.

yea, my bad on the reply first, i edited my response, i worded it like a drunk moneky the first time. trying to type it while at work hehe. TP4U

and, with regards to paul, i said he worked hard on offense, espically shooting, and your numbers showed that. I also said, directly after that, that melo has always been an elite scorer. Its not real shocking to me, except in the fact that i underrated paul's hard work, that melo has alwasy had great offensive numbers.

my contention has always been, from post one, that melo is an elite scorer who doesn't have the drive to work to become a complete player. so far ive seen no proof to the contrary. and hey, alot of awesome players have been that way.

and, no, id didn't cite that he's had issues with maturity as a lack of work ethic, you and soap brougth that in, and i responded to it by saying it doesn't really improve my opnion of his work ethic, since you added it to the discussion. i also said, however, that given pauls history with regardes to maturity, that to me, that should be moot, except the fight i suppose, sicne that affected his team. soap in particular is dodging the question i first asked, which would be what exacly his beign a "thug" or whatever ridiculous label you want to attach to being young has to do witht he price of tea in china, but so far i can't get a response other than more attempts to get me to argue over his maturity level.

i do find it odd that neither of you has provided me any kind of evidence that even folks from denver think im way off base and he's not working on his total game, I.E defense, kind of funny.

you would sicne soap tells m there's tons of articles about how he works so hard at everything in the offseason, that a link could be provided.

[crownsy]

awnser my  question, which you decided not to qoute. why is this relevant to the discussion of his desire to work on his total game when i already allowed that maturity isn't a barrier to working on your overall game? (see: pierce, paul) you brought in the "you hate him because he's a thug" i said that wasen't the case, and now your hammering on the issue you brought up because you don't have an awesnser for the question posed.

Okay, tell me how you know that he doesn't have the desire to work on his overall game. His assists, rebounding and offensive game have all improved since he entered the league. Clearly, that lazyness must be doing something right.

those are all offensive numbers except rebounds, considering ive always said he's an elite offensive player, not real shocking. still waiting for any evidence to the contary you want to provide about his defensive effort.

supposedly you tell me there lots, you'd think there'd be some info on it,  from the nugg doctor at the very least.

I'd also like to point out that saying he won't be an all time great isn't saying he sucks, which you would think i said considering the responses.

he's still a very good player, one of the best scorers in the game. i just think he could be great if he wanted to be. heck, mabey he'll grow up a bit and show that, lord knows there's still time, not like im making this post about a 32 year old melo ya know?

[fairweatherfan]

<MEGASNIP>
I said the comparision wasen't valid outside of offense. all you showed was offense. that was my issue with the comparision. If i had said "pierce was a better scorer" then that works. but i actually was supised paul was that good at 23 on that end of the floor.

How exactly, would you propose I "show defense"?  Individual defensive stats are very hard to quantify, as you know.  I already showed that the Nuggets, despite their high PPG allowed, were an above-average defensive team, and I've acknowledged all along that Carmelo has defensive effort problems, just like Paul did.  And, yes you did also mention offense in your original post:

"Pierce was always known to work hard in the offseason, and to polish area's of his game that he had problems in. thus how waaayyyyy before these last few years, he was known for having a deadly mid range game (which he lacked coming out of kansas) good 3 pt shooting ability (lacked coming out of kansas.) The ability to post up (lacked coming out of kansas) and better, if still not great ball handleling skills (while pierce still turns it over in pressure a bit to much, he improved this through hard work.)"

Don't change the argument on the fly on me, now - you said Pierce worked hard on offense, I showed that their offensive #s are similar at the same age.  You stated to another poster that Pierce didn't have good defensive effort in his early years, which is exactly what you're now saying is somehow different about Anthony.  You cited a fight and a DUI as evidence of poor work ethic, and I pointed out that that doesn't make sense, and that you had your facts wrong anyway.  The rest of your post was supposition: "the Nuggets don't care about defense" etc.  I'm not sure what's left of your argument, to be honest.

yea, my bad on the reply first, i edited my response, i worded it like a drunk moneky the first time. trying to type it while at work hehe. TP4U

and, no, id didn't cite that he's had issues with maturity as a lack of work ethic, you and soap brougth that in, and i responded to it sicne you added it to the discussion. to me, that should be moot, except the fight, sicne that affected his team. soap in particular is dodging the question i first asked, which would be what exacly his beign a "thug" or whatever ridiculous label you want to attach to being young has to do witht he price of tea in china, but so far i can't get a response other than more attempts to get me to argue over his maturity level.

i do find it odd that neither of you has provided me any kind of evidence that even folks from denver think im way off base and he's not working on his total game, I.E defense, kind of funny.

you would sicne soap tells m there's tons of articles about how he works so hard at everything in the offseason, that a link could be provided.

First, I agree with you that Carmelo currently severely underachieves on defense - that was never a question.  My original point was that, well, so did Pierce, and he turned things around later in his career.  I see a lot of parallels between Carmelo and Pierce, including tremendous talent and a good work ethic clouded by an attitude problem and a lack of success (relative in Carmelo's case - he's already been on as many 50 win teams and playoff teamsas Pierce, but he'll never succeed in the playoffs in that conference without a big improvement).  The only question to me is whether Carmelo will eventually put it together like we've all seen Paul do.

I don't expect there are many articles on Carmelo's D out there (since I still think he sucks at it), but here's one I found (from a blog) dealing with the Olympics that started the whole mess:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2008/08/carmelo_is_playing_defense_at.php

And a TP back at you for a good discussion - I seriously have to get some work done today, so we'll leave it in the "agree to disagree" pile, and see what the future holds.  Take it easy...

[crownsy]

<MEGASNIP>
I said the comparision wasen't valid outside of offense. all you showed was offense. that was my issue with the comparision. If i had said "pierce was a better scorer" then that works. but i actually was supised paul was that good at 23 on that end of the floor.

How exactly, would you propose I "show defense"?  Individual defensive stats are very hard to quantify, as you know.  I already showed that the Nuggets, despite their high PPG allowed, were an above-average defensive team, and I've acknowledged all along that Carmelo has defensive effort problems, just like Paul did.  And, yes you did also mention offense in your original post:

"Pierce was always known to work hard in the offseason, and to polish area's of his game that he had problems in. thus how waaayyyyy before these last few years, he was known for having a deadly mid range game (which he lacked coming out of kansas) good 3 pt shooting ability (lacked coming out of kansas.) The ability to post up (lacked coming out of kansas) and better, if still not great ball handleling skills (while pierce still turns it over in pressure a bit to much, he improved this through hard work.)"

Don't change the argument on the fly on me, now - you said Pierce worked hard on offense, I showed that their offensive #s are similar at the same age.  You stated to another poster that Pierce didn't have good defensive effort in his early years, which is exactly what you're now saying is somehow different about Anthony.  You cited a fight and a DUI as evidence of poor work ethic, and I pointed out that that doesn't make sense, and that you had your facts wrong anyway.  The rest of your post was supposition: "the Nuggets don't care about defense" etc.  I'm not sure what's left of your argument, to be honest.

yea, my bad on the reply first, i edited my response, i worded it like a drunk moneky the first time. trying to type it while at work hehe. TP4U

and, no, id didn't cite that he's had issues with maturity as a lack of work ethic, you and soap brougth that in, and i responded to it sicne you added it to the discussion. to me, that should be moot, except the fight, sicne that affected his team. soap in particular is dodging the question i first asked, which would be what exacly his beign a "thug" or whatever ridiculous label you want to attach to being young has to do witht he price of tea in china, but so far i can't get a response other than more attempts to get me to argue over his maturity level.

i do find it odd that neither of you has provided me any kind of evidence that even folks from denver think im way off base and he's not working on his total game, I.E defense, kind of funny.

you would sicne soap tells m there's tons of articles about how he works so hard at everything in the offseason, that a link could be provided.

First, I agree with you that Carmelo currently severely underachieves on defense - that was never a question.  My original point was that, well, so did Pierce, and he turned things around later in his career.  I see a lot of parallels between Carmelo and Pierce, including tremendous talent and a good work ethic clouded by an attitude problem and a lack of success (relative in Carmelo's case - he's already been on as many 50 win teams and playoff teamsas Pierce, but he'll never succeed in the playoffs in that conference without a big improvement).  The only question to me is whether Carmelo will eventually put it together like we've all seen Paul do.

I don't expect there are many articles on Carmelo's D out there (since I still think he sucks at it), but here's one I found (from a blog) dealing with the Olympics that started the whole mess:

http://blogs.westword.com/latestword/2008/08/carmelo_is_playing_defense_at.php

And a TP back at you for a good discussion - I seriously have to get some work done today, so we'll leave it in the "agree to disagree" pile, and see what the future holds.  Take it easy...

same to you man, and yea, i can see melo turning it around, as we all stipulate, he's still very young.

best thing would be to get him out of denver and with some vetrans, but that may not happen

and another TP for you whn i can about work, celticsblog takes down my productivity 50% lol 

[BballTim]

<Snip>

you could say that, it would be unture, but you could say it.
<snip>

If he gave a [dang] about his game, AT ALL, he'd already be able to play better defense and handel better. but he doesn't seem to care. He's content with being a great scorer, which he no doubt is.
<snip>

Um...so Anthony hasn't shown much defensively up to this point in his career, is somewhat turnover prone, and focuses too much on scoring, and these are ways that he's DIFFERENT from a young Paul Pierce? 

  Pierce was a good defender when he came into the league.

Pierce was a solid defender when he wanted to be, which wasn't particularly often when the team was decent, and practically never when they sucked.

  No, Pierce was a good defender when he came into the league. When they sucked he was carrying most of the offensive load on the team so he played less defense. It happens. But it doesn't change the fact that he was a better defender than Carmelo is.

Feel like addressing the rest of the post where I showed their numbers were virtually identical?

  Is this a new rule? I'm not allowed to disagree with anything you post unless I disagree with all of it?

  For starters, when you're showing that their scoring averages are the same you could mention that 2007-2008 Denver scored about 16 points a game more than the 2000-2001 Celtics. Melo scored a smaller percentage of his team's points and was on the court with better scorers, making him less of the focal point of opposing defenses.

[nickagneta]

In defense of my reasoning of Melo being an idiotic dink I kindly submit the DWI and marijuana charges. Anyone can make a mistake but when you keep making the same one over and over, that makes you an idiot. Making that mistake because of partying makes you a dink.

Hope that clears that up.

Other than that his other problems are he doesn't play defense nearly enough or good enough, he has a bad coach and general manager, he's playing with the selfish and best player ever who doesn't make anyone around him better, he's in a tough conference, and his upbringing occured in a bad place.

Those are a bunch of his problems. They don't change the fact that he is an extremely talented player that I would welcome on my team any day or that he is a generous and giving person. They are just his problems in my opinion.

But in a nutshell his biggest problem is he is an idiotic dink. If he wises up, stops drinking while driving(which any millionaire should never have happen to them considering they can easily get a room or a limo or a taxi or a permanent hired driver), and stops his drug use while partying less, maybe I'll see things differently.

[soap07]

But in a nutshell his biggest problem is he is an idiotic dink. If he wises up, stops drinking while driving(which any millionaire should never have happen to them considering they can easily get a room or a limo or a taxi or a permanent hired driver), and stops his drug use while partying less, maybe I'll see things differently.

Actually, in all seriousness, will someone please refresh my memory on the marijuana charges? I don't remember where or when it was.