Powe or Davis, who'll be the first power forward off the bench?

[iowa plowboy]

If Garnett is the first to the bench, Davis.  If Perk is, Powe.

See, I think it would be the other way around.  Right now Powe is the better offensive player, and Davis is the better defender.  So it makes more sense to put Davis in their alongside Garnett, and Powe with Perkins.  If you put Davis and Perk in there together, you will likely get much less offensive production from the frontline.

Powe is Perk at 6-7.  They're redundant offensively.  Offensively, Davis moves the ball around like Garnett.  He also moves around the court better than Powe.  I see Perk and Powe as probably the only scenario that doesn't happen.

Don't rule O'Bryant out of the mix either.  Or Scal.

[Chris]

Powe is much more consistent than BBD. I don't want to hear about the 3-4 games that BBD played out of his mind last year. I'll show you 3 times that many from Powe, and a much more consistent effort the rest of them. Powe is dependable and wants it more. BBD should be used to solidify another spot with a trade. Let someone else watch him balloon and slim down his whole career which I think is in his future... Too bad though because he is sure a likeable personality.

I agree that by the end of the year Powe was the more consistent player...but he also has a year of experience on Davis.  At the beginning of the season, and last season Powe was incredibly undependable, but he progressed steadily throughout the season, especially on the defensive end, until by the end he was someone they could count on.  It is not outrageous to think the same thing could happen with Davis, who was already significantly better on the defensive end than Powe last year.

If Garnett is the first to the bench, Davis.  If Perk is, Powe.

See, I think it would be the other way around.  Right now Powe is the better offensive player, and Davis is the better defender.  So it makes more sense to put Davis in their alongside Garnett, and Powe with Perkins.  If you put Davis and Perk in there together, you will likely get much less offensive production from the frontline.

Powe is Perk at 6-7.  They're redundant offensively.  Offensively, Davis moves the ball around like Garnett.  He also moves around the court better than Powe.  I see Perk and Powe as probably the only scenario that doesn't happen.

Don't rule O'Bryant out of the mix either.  Or Scal.

I know what you are saying, and I agree that Perk and Powe are similar offensively, because they are both "garbage men" who get most of their points by hiding on the weakside and getting drop passes and rebounds for dunks. 

The difference is, Powe is by far the best at this of all of our big men other than Garnett.  Powe is able to give us a legit offensive threat on the pick and roll, as well as on the blocks.  These are things that Perk and Davis have not been able to provide with any consistency. 

Yes, Davis is a better passer than Powe, but he has not shown the ability to be consistently effective with his passing, because he hasn't been consistently effective with his shooting and driving, to keep the defense honest and open up passing lanes.  Until he can do that, his passing can not be thought of as a threat.

[indeedproceed]

I agree a lot with Chris, Powe is better as of the end of the finals last season.

Davis will have had an entire offseason though to get into better shape, get stronger, and get smarter. I think his ceiling is much higher than Powe's, and for that reason I think Davis will pass him by mid season as first off the bench.



EDIT: I meant I agree with Chris that right now, Powe is the better player, and if a game was held today, he'd be the first one off. Before long though, I don't think that will be the case.

[Bankshot]

Powe is much more consistent than BBD. I don't want to hear about the 3-4 games that BBD played out of his mind last year. I'll show you 3 times that many from Powe, and a much more consistent effort the rest of them. Powe is dependable and wants it more. BBD should be used to solidify another spot with a trade. Let someone else watch him balloon and slim down his whole career which I think is in his future... Too bad though because he is sure a likeable personality.

Don't forget that Baby was just a rookie and played better in his rookie year than Powe did in his rookie year.  Also, Davis played better defense as a rookie than Powe did in his 2nd year.  Don't sell Baby short, he can improve just as Powe did.

[Bankshot]

If Garnett is the first to the bench, Davis.  If Perk is, Powe.

See, I think it would be the other way around.  Right now Powe is the better offensive player, and Davis is the better defender.  So it makes more sense to put Davis in their alongside Garnett, and Powe with Perkins.  If you put Davis and Perk in there together, you will likely get much less offensive production from the frontline.

Powe is Perk at 6-7.  They're redundant offensively.  Offensively, Davis moves the ball around like Garnett.  He also moves around the court better than Powe.  I see Perk and Powe as probably the only scenario that doesn't happen.

Don't rule O'Bryant out of the mix either.  Or Scal.

But Baby plays better defense, that's why Doc plays him at center and Powe at power forward.  Doc doesn't decide who plays center by who is the better passer... it's the better defender and that has been Baby.

[hwangjini_1]

one important key may be which one of the two develop a better mid-range jump shot.

i thought davis would be able to hit shots near the top of the key with ease, but he struggled with his shooting. i think he will be able to hit jump shots eventually, but he will need to really practice.

powe has consistently scored from inside, but i wonder whether doc's game plan contributed to that. towards the end of the season powe hit a few jump shots, so he may be capable of doing so more often.

over all, i think davis is the more versitle, talented offensive player. but unless he can change potential into reality, powe will probably get the minutes because of consistency.

[pearljammer10]

Which ever name Doc pulls out of a hat before the game that day.

[Sweet17]

We can only hope it's Powe. And we should also be hoping POB steps up and steals Davis minutes as the backup center. BBD is the most overrated player we have had here since Jiri Welsch..

[KevinGamble]

We can only hope it's Powe. And we should also be hoping POB steps up and steals Davis minutes as the backup center. BBD is the most overrated player we have had here since Jiri Welsch..

I must respectfully disagree, but I give you credit for making us laugh with the Jiri reference. 

BBD is a great 'player.'  He knows how to get his shot off against bigger and more athletic bigs.  He has a knack for scoring even though he is not a "shooter" at all.  (I give you that he has a very ugly release on free throws for example.)  I for one think he will help create awesome match-up problems for other teams. 

What if he could be used in an "elephant" bench line-up of POB, Powe, and BBD?  BBD offers a lot of versatility is my point.  \


Go Celts!

[EJPLAYA]

Powe is much more consistent than BBD. I don't want to hear about the 3-4 games that BBD played out of his mind last year. I'll show you 3 times that many from Powe, and a much more consistent effort the rest of them. Powe is dependable and wants it more. BBD should be used to solidify another spot with a trade. Let someone else watch him balloon and slim down his whole career which I think is in his future... Too bad though because he is sure a likeable personality.

Don't forget that Baby was just a rookie and played better in his rookie year than Powe did in his rookie year.  Also, Davis played better defense as a rookie than Powe did in his 2nd year.  Don't sell Baby short, he can improve just as Powe did.

Of course BBD should improve his second year, but so will Powe with his added confidence from the endo of last year. Go look at the guys numbers since the middle of January! He was outstanding! I am not sure how BBD is heralded as this great player with huge upside yet Powe, who was amazing at Cal before his injury, had better College stats. Powe put up 20-10 and BBD put up 17.7 and 10. The big difference in my eyes is that Powe simply wants it more. Period! You look at their actions in the offseasons and the shape they keep themselves in and it is plain. Powe was tearing up the league the last third of the season and BBD was riding the pine. Doc and Danny both know what they have. Even if many of you on here don't. I'd love BBD to prove me wrong, but not too likely.

[nickagneta]

I think a lot of this argument depends on a few variables.

1.) Patrick O'Bryant - if POB starts slow and/or Doc has no trust in him and/or he just plain sucks, Glen Davis is this team's back up center. I don't care how short he is, he has the below the chest strength and size to push big men out of the way and just box them out for rebounds. If POB isn't doing it, BBD gets the backup center minutes.

2.) Foul trouble - in a perfect world none of our starters ever have to come out but if they do because of foul trouble, that will effect who comes out first. If Garnett, then I see Powe, if Perk then I see Davis. That's based on POB not doing anything. If POB is performing and getting soe playing time, then it comes down to 3 and 4.

3.) Matchups - there are just some players that Powe can't handle that Davis can and vice versa. That will be the first determining factor no matter what, as far as I am concerned.

4.) Davis' conditioning - if Davis comes into camp in better shape and, this is very important, maintains that conditioning through the year, he will get a load of minutes. He, unlike Powe, has a real offensive game and considering Doc's love of having two separate teams(yuck), there's not going to be a ton of offense on the florr with that second group. Davis in shape has the shooting, passing and dribbling skills to get his own shot off. Powe doesn't. If he is in shape Davis is playing minutes this year.

5.) The players ceilings - just how good can either player get? Have we seen the best that either player can be and if not, when they realize their full potential just who will be the better player. At the end of last year that player was Powe. But we may have seen the best that Powe can be. Only consistency would be expected now, maybe. But Big Baby hasn't scratched the surface as to just how good he could be. But will he ever get that good? Seriously good question that the answer to could be no. He may not be able to fight his eating demons or work hard enough.

So, all that said, either one could on any given night be the first PF off the bench. But if Baby is playing center, then the answer will be Powe.

[cdif911]

I'm going with Powe, he's a guy who makes his teammates better through his infusion of enthusiasm, excitement, husstle, etc. Its contagious.

I was a Powe detractor at the beginning of last year, I didn't see the value he really brought to the table, but when he got minutes he more often than not made it impossible for Doc to pull him because of his efforts on the boards and finishing inside.  We need that type of play off the bench next year, and especially without Posey's defensive tenacity, more energy needs to come from somewhere, and that somewhere is Leon Powe imo

Now both guys could be better team defenders, and as has been said, if one can develop a 16-18 foot jumper they will clearly be the more valuable of the two, but for now, for me, its Leon all day

[KevinGamble]

I think a lot of this argument depends on a few variables.

1.) Patrick O'Bryant - if POB starts slow and/or Doc has no trust in him and/or he just plain sucks, Glen Davis is this team's back up center. I don't care how short he is, he has the below the chest strength and size to push big men out of the way and just box them out for rebounds. If POB isn't doing it, BBD gets the backup center minutes.

2.) Foul trouble - in a perfect world none of our starters ever have to come out but if they do because of foul trouble, that will effect who comes out first. If Garnett, then I see Powe, if Perk then I see Davis. That's based on POB not doing anything. If POB is performing and getting soe playing time, then it comes down to 3 and 4.

3.) Matchups - there are just some players that Powe can't handle that Davis can and vice versa. That will be the first determining factor no matter what, as far as I am concerned.

4.) Davis' conditioning - if Davis comes into camp in better shape and, this is very important, maintains that conditioning through the year, he will get a load of minutes. He, unlike Powe, has a real offensive game and considering Doc's love of having two separate teams(yuck), there's not going to be a ton of offense on the florr with that second group. Davis in shape has the shooting, passing and dribbling skills to get his own shot off. Powe doesn't. If he is in shape Davis is playing minutes this year.

5.) The players ceilings - just how good can either player get? Have we seen the best that either player can be and if not, when they realize their full potential just who will be the better player. At the end of last year that player was Powe. But we may have seen the best that Powe can be. Only consistency would be expected now, maybe. But Big Baby hasn't scratched the surface as to just how good he could be. But will he ever get that good? Seriously good question that the answer to could be no. He may not be able to fight his eating demons or work hard enough.

So, all that said, either one could on any given night be the first PF off the bench. But if Baby is playing center, then the answer will be Powe.

Good points!  I'm with you on one,
2. and 3. I think get managed really well by Doc.  I think that is one of the main reasons I like his coaching-- rotations by "feel" to force bad match-ups for the opposition.  I really don't see the need to have to choose "either/ or" to fill out the roster.  Their games are not too repetitive.

4. I think this is an important one.  I remember having doubts about Jefferson's ability to stay at weight (his appendix helped him get to a good playing weight, and he kept it and looked great for the first time for  a whole year.)

5. ceilings are also important, but Powe is the tough guy of the team and has already filled the ceiling with it.  He trumped the finese game of the lakers!

Go Celts

[zerophase]

it'll just be like it was this year.. i mean we essentially have the exact same roster -posey +2 rookies.

[EJPLAYA]

I think a lot of this argument depends on a few variables.

1.) Patrick O'Bryant - if POB starts slow and/or Doc has no trust in him and/or he just plain sucks, Glen Davis is this team's back up center. I don't care how short he is, he has the below the chest strength and size to push big men out of the way and just box them out for rebounds. If POB isn't doing it, BBD gets the backup center minutes.

2.) Foul trouble - in a perfect world none of our starters ever have to come out but if they do because of foul trouble, that will effect who comes out first. If Garnett, then I see Powe, if Perk then I see Davis. That's based on POB not doing anything. If POB is performing and getting soe playing time, then it comes down to 3 and 4.

3.) Matchups - there are just some players that Powe can't handle that Davis can and vice versa. That will be the first determining factor no matter what, as far as I am concerned.

4.) Davis' conditioning - if Davis comes into camp in better shape and, this is very important, maintains that conditioning through the year, he will get a load of minutes. He, unlike Powe, has a real offensive game and considering Doc's love of having two separate teams(yuck), there's not going to be a ton of offense on the florr with that second group. Davis in shape has the shooting, passing and dribbling skills to get his own shot off. Powe doesn't. If he is in shape Davis is playing minutes this year.

5.) The players ceilings - just how good can either player get? Have we seen the best that either player can be and if not, when they realize their full potential just who will be the better player. At the end of last year that player was Powe. But we may have seen the best that Powe can be. Only consistency would be expected now, maybe. But Big Baby hasn't scratched the surface as to just how good he could be. But will he ever get that good? Seriously good question that the answer to could be no. He may not be able to fight his eating demons or work hard enough.

So, all that said, either one could on any given night be the first PF off the bench. But if Baby is playing center, then the answer will be Powe.

I agree with everything said except this one phrase. You don't score 20 pts a game at a big school with no offensive skills. You don't score the way Powe did the last 1/3rd of the season with no offensive skills. I would argue that BBD has LESS offensive skills than Powe because not only can he post people up like BBD can, he has legitimate face up shooting ability from mid range. BBD is absolutely TERRIBLE with his jumpshot. He is creative around the basket out of necessity. That does not translate into huge upside nor great overall offensive skills. It just makes him a decent undersized post player...