whats wrong with the red sox

[cdif911]

I will say, though I too see things very wrong with the sox, it feels good to step back and appreciate all the joy they have brought us in the last 4 years or so... I give them a mulligan - I was at the game yesterday (Monday) and was shocked to hear people booing Dice-K and Francona... not cool Boston fans.. not cool

[Bankshot]

I think the problem is that the Sox are counting on too many young players that are just not as good as they hoped they would be.

People keep waiting for the Rays to start fading. Why?  Because they have a lot of young players and young teams usually do fade down the stretch.  Well, the Sox look like a fading team (although it could just turn out to be a horrible slump) and the main failures on the team have been mostly young players.

Delcarmen, Ellsbury, Buccholz and Hansen are all playing key roles and are not getting the job done.  Buccholz was ok his last two starts, but overall he hasn't really been good and the Sox seem to lose every time he starts.  Delcarmen is Jekyl and Hyde and always seems to give up the big hit.  Hansen is just "dear in the headlights" and Ellsbury was killing the offense at the top of the lineup (although he has been recently moved down -- but he's still a consistent dead bat in the lineup).

Sure there are older players that are not doing so well, like Varitek, but there is nothing they can do about him.  And for the most part, most of the veterans have performed pretty consistently overall.

The Sox need to:

1. Get a reliable veteran arm in the pen
2. Get another bat in the lineup (to replace Ellsbury or Lugo/Lowrie)
3. Replace Buccholz in the rotation (maybe Bartolo Colon can help there).

[Rondo2287]

"3. Replace Buccholz in the rotation (maybe Bartolo Colon can help there)."

He is not the problem.  Last night he lost his confidence in an inning where there was a key error, an error later called a hit, and a bloop single.  He is making good pitches, and is progressing.  He was also ranked the number two prospect in all of baseball at the beginning of the season.   And everybody was calling for him to do everything at the end of last year, but sure lets move him out of the rotation and ruin his confidence completely.

The problem is that the lack of bullpen depth which we all know.  It is causing Francona to try and stretch our starters to go deeper into the game and that is when they get into trouble and give up runs in later innings like Dice-K or Beckett against the angels last week in Anaheim. 

[hpantazo]

I will say, though I too see things very wrong with the sox, it feels good to step back and appreciate all the joy they have brought us in the last 4 years or so... I give them a mulligan - I was at the game yesterday (Monday) and was shocked to hear people booing Dice-K and Francona... not cool Boston fans.. not cool

not cool at all. I was at the game last saturday vs the yankees and there were much louder cheers for the yankees than for the sox. I mean, I know they were down, but cheer your team on at home, how can the fans of your biggest rival out-cheer you at home? I think sox fans are spoiled and have developed a bad attitude, kind of like manny

[nickagneta]

I think we all need to remember something that Theo Epstein said:

The bigger budget allows the Yankees to assemble an "uber-team" -- one in which star players are brought in to replace those that are injured.


"That's not our dynamic," Epstein said. "We're not going to have an uber-team every year. We're going to try to build an organization that can try to sustain success over the long run."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555973

This quote is from 2006. But it still holds true. Theo has built this team with some free agents(mostly bad ones at SS), some trades and through a lot of talent coming up through the ranks.

This team, once it was decided they wouldn't land Johan Santana, made the decision this year's championship chances would lie on the performance of young players and arms. Theo threw his trust into Ellsbury, Pedroia(to have another solid season), Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, Delcarmen, Hansen, and Lowrie. These guys and more in the system were kept.

The obvious reasoning is that Theo trusts his scouting and talent and if they didn't win it this year, fine, all that young talent would still get a tremendous amount of exposure and that exposure will pay off through a trade between seasons or better play and better chances for winning in 2009.

Theo isn't trying to build a team that will win it all every year. He is building a team that has a chance to win it all every year and should win it every few years.

This team is relying heavily on youth and the youth is starting to show. Before Masterson went to the bullpen he began to struggle, over the last month Ellsbury, Buchholz, Delcarmen and Hansen have all struggled. Add to that a missing Big Papi and we have a team that could be falling into third place soon.

So don't expect a big move from Theo. Theo isn't under orders to win it all at all costs every single year like Brian Cashman. He is not building that "uber-team", he is building a year in and year out contender, that happens towin every once in a while.

[Green Mountain]

I think we all need to remember something that Theo Epstein said:

The bigger budget allows the Yankees to assemble an "uber-team" -- one in which star players are brought in to replace those that are injured.


"That's not our dynamic," Epstein said. "We're not going to have an uber-team every year. We're going to try to build an organization that can try to sustain success over the long run."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555973

This quote is from 2006. But it still holds true. Theo has built this team with some free agents(mostly bad ones at SS), some trades and through a lot of talent coming up through the ranks.

This team, once it was decided they wouldn't land Johan Santana, made the decision this year's championship chances would lie on the performance of young players and arms. Theo threw his trust into Ellsbury, Pedroia(to have another solid season), Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, Delcarmen, Hansen, and Lowrie. These guys and more in the system were kept.

The obvious reasoning is that Theo trusts his scouting and talent and if they didn't win it this year, fine, all that young talent would still get a tremendous amount of exposure and that exposure will pay off through a trade between seasons or better play and better chances for winning in 2009.
Theo isn't trying to build a team that will win it all every year. He is building a team that has a chance to win it all every year and should win it every few years.

This team is relying heavily on youth and the youth is starting to show. Before Masterson went to the bullpen he began to struggle, over the last month Ellsbury, Buchholz, Delcarmen and Hansen have all struggled. Add to that a missing Big Papi and we have a team that could be falling into third place soon.

So don't expect a big move from Theo. Theo isn't under orders to win it all at all costs every single year like Brian Cashman. He is not building that "uber-team", he is building a year in and year out contender, that happens towin every once in a while.

If this is the case than there is absolutely no reason to hang on to Manny. Get rid of him. The Sox survived without Ortiz. They'll survive without Manny. Get what prospects you can for him. Manny won't be here next year so they might as well get used to him not being there.

[nickagneta]

I think we all need to remember something that Theo Epstein said:

The bigger budget allows the Yankees to assemble an "uber-team" -- one in which star players are brought in to replace those that are injured.


"That's not our dynamic," Epstein said. "We're not going to have an uber-team every year. We're going to try to build an organization that can try to sustain success over the long run."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555973

This quote is from 2006. But it still holds true. Theo has built this team with some free agents(mostly bad ones at SS), some trades and through a lot of talent coming up through the ranks.

This team, once it was decided they wouldn't land Johan Santana, made the decision this year's championship chances would lie on the performance of young players and arms. Theo threw his trust into Ellsbury, Pedroia(to have another solid season), Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, Delcarmen, Hansen, and Lowrie. These guys and more in the system were kept.

The obvious reasoning is that Theo trusts his scouting and talent and if they didn't win it this year, fine, all that young talent would still get a tremendous amount of exposure and that exposure will pay off through a trade between seasons or better play and better chances for winning in 2009.
Theo isn't trying to build a team that will win it all every year. He is building a team that has a chance to win it all every year and should win it every few years.

This team is relying heavily on youth and the youth is starting to show. Before Masterson went to the bullpen he began to struggle, over the last month Ellsbury, Buchholz, Delcarmen and Hansen have all struggled. Add to that a missing Big Papi and we have a team that could be falling into third place soon.

So don't expect a big move from Theo. Theo isn't under orders to win it all at all costs every single year like Brian Cashman. He is not building that "uber-team", he is building a year in and year out contender, that happens towin every once in a while.

If this is the case than there is absolutely no reason to hang on to Manny. Get rid of him. The Sox survived without Ortiz. They'll survive without Manny. Get what prospects you can for him. Manny won't be here next year so they might as well get used to him not being there.

Why get rid of him? They are going to get the prospects anyway because Manny is a Class A free agent. Might as well have his potent bat in the lineup.

And let's not forget. Theo's trust might be well placed and these kids are just hitting a lull. With the vet core and all the youngsters, this team is still very capable of winning 20 of 22 and winning the World Series still.

The talent is there even if it's not all grown up yet but sometimes kids can grown a lot in a short period of time.

[Green Mountain]

I think we all need to remember something that Theo Epstein said:

The bigger budget allows the Yankees to assemble an "uber-team" -- one in which star players are brought in to replace those that are injured.


"That's not our dynamic," Epstein said. "We're not going to have an uber-team every year. We're going to try to build an organization that can try to sustain success over the long run."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2555973

This quote is from 2006. But it still holds true. Theo has built this team with some free agents(mostly bad ones at SS), some trades and through a lot of talent coming up through the ranks.

This team, once it was decided they wouldn't land Johan Santana, made the decision this year's championship chances would lie on the performance of young players and arms. Theo threw his trust into Ellsbury, Pedroia(to have another solid season), Lester, Buchholz, Masterson, Delcarmen, Hansen, and Lowrie. These guys and more in the system were kept.

The obvious reasoning is that Theo trusts his scouting and talent and if they didn't win it this year, fine, all that young talent would still get a tremendous amount of exposure and that exposure will pay off through a trade between seasons or better play and better chances for winning in 2009.
Theo isn't trying to build a team that will win it all every year. He is building a team that has a chance to win it all every year and should win it every few years.

This team is relying heavily on youth and the youth is starting to show. Before Masterson went to the bullpen he began to struggle, over the last month Ellsbury, Buchholz, Delcarmen and Hansen have all struggled. Add to that a missing Big Papi and we have a team that could be falling into third place soon.

So don't expect a big move from Theo. Theo isn't under orders to win it all at all costs every single year like Brian Cashman. He is not building that "uber-team", he is building a year in and year out contender, that happens towin every once in a while.

If this is the case than there is absolutely no reason to hang on to Manny. Get rid of him. The Sox survived without Ortiz. They'll survive without Manny. Get what prospects you can for him. Manny won't be here next year so they might as well get used to him not being there.

Why get rid of him? They are going to get the prospects anyway because Manny is a Class A free agent. Might as well have his potent bat in the lineup.

And let's not forget. Theo's trust might be well placed and these kids are just hitting a lull. With the vet core and all the youngsters, this team is still very capable of winning 20 of 22 and winning the World Series still.

The talent is there even if it's not all grown up yet but sometimes kids can grown a lot in a short period of time.

I don't want Manny's act poisoning the clubhouse and the young players any longer than necessary. It's more than just the kids who aren't performing. Varitek is killing this lineup. He's flirting with the Mendoza line for god's sake. I just don't have a good feeling from what I'm seeing in the field and Manny jogging up the line is not exactly filling me with confidence. If Manny isn't traded he's going to dog it the rest of the season. He wants to go. Let him go.

[Bankshot]

Why are people worried about Manny jogging down the first base line?  Now that people are upset with him, they complain about every little thing he does now, as if he hasn't been doing it his whole career. He's done it from time to time when he thinks it's an out (like most of the veterans on the Sox do, btw) his whole career, so why are people acting like if he does that it will poison the team.  It poisoned the team so bad over the years that they won 2 Word Series.  People are taking these Manny "crimes" a little too seriously and a little too far.

BTW, has anyone noticed that when Manny messes up in the field, even jogging to first base it NEVER costs the team?  That's why I don't worry about.  I can't think of one time that it cost the team.  If he makes an error and turns a single into a triple, the guy on 3rd doesn't score.  Like jogging to first base last night.  Sure, he could have broken up a no-hitter, but it had zero impact on whether the Sox won or lost.  In the WS in 2004, he made several horrendous errors in the field and all the Sox did was sweep.

Manny just has it like that.  He's just special.  That's why he's Manny

[LB3533]

Why are people worried about Manny jogging down the first base line?  Now that people are upset with him, they complain about every little thing he does now, as if he hasn't been doing it his whole career. He's done it from time to time when he thinks it's an out (like most of the veterans on the Sox do, btw) his whole career, so why are people acting like if he does that it will poison the team.  It poisoned the team so bad over the years that they won 2 Word Series.  People are taking these Manny "crimes" a little too seriously and a little too far.

BTW, has anyone noticed that when Manny messes up in the field, even jogging to first base it NEVER costs the team?  That's why I don't worry about.  I can't think of one time that it cost the team.  If he makes an error and turns a single into a triple, the guy on 3rd doesn't score.  Like jogging to first base last night.  Sure, he could have broken up a no-hitter, but it had zero impact on whether the Sox won or lost.  In the WS in 2004, he made several horrendous errors in the field and all the Sox did was sweep.

Manny just has it like that.  He's just special.  That's why he's Manny

Only when it is time for the Red Sox Organization to justify trading Manny that these things come into play magnified x100.

Manny's done his "Manny being Manny" crap for his entire Red Sox career.

It's not new.

The Red Sox have allowed it to happen, his teammates, his manager, his GM, his owners all have made excuses for him.

I just don't see this trade working out for the Sox, even though it is still 100x better than the Nomar trade for 2 shiny gloves.