Newest Darius Miles update via Boston.com: C's still interested

[Ian]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53762/20080727/boston_still_interested_in_darius_miles/

Honestly, why not take a flier on this guy?

Walker will probably play overseas next year.

Giddens isn't going to be contributing regularly for the next 2 years.

Miles is a guy who's proven he can play NBA defense individually. On a team like the Celtics which prides itself in its defensive prowess, I think he would be an asset. Furthrmore, if reports are accurate about his having re-gained a good deal of his athleticism, I say bring him aboard.

Potentially, the Celtics would still have a roster spot open even with Miles aboard for a veteran big man.

The man has to sit for the first 10 games you have him because he was caught taking a dieretic because he can't keep his weight down to perform well.

Add that to the fact that he hasn't played ball in 2 years and that doctors have already proclaimed his injury career endng, and what you have is a basketball player with a fork sticking out of him. He's well done.

I would rather Doc be given the kids to teach and attempt to produce than a reclammation project that makes Scot Pollard look healthy.

oh christ, could you put any more negative of a spin on that? Miles has to sit out 10 games because of a stupid NBA rule which make diet pills a banned substance. Miles hasn't played a game in 2 years and is coming off a major injury, which he thought was going to end his career. Now he's realizing he may have a chance to get back on the court again and he's doing everything he can to get back in playing shape in time for the season. Besides not having him for the first 10 games, I don't see how that's a negative.

Also, it was reported that at the end of a workout the other day Miles jumped up and slapped the top of the backboard square. Doesn't sound like somebody who's injury is "career ending"...

[celticswillwin43]

Miles is damaged goods. Coming off a major surgury and last report was way out of shape.

The only thing Miles had going was his he was a amazing athlete and now thats gone.

No need for a shooting guard that can't shoot.

they said he looked great in workouts though

[The Walker Wiggle]

They dont like him, cut him. There is an upside with him, but no down side.

That's an understatement. There's a reason L.A. first traded him, that Cleveland dealt him amidst concerns that he couldn't co-exist with Lebron James, and that Portland wouldn't allow him to rehab at the Blazers' facilities while his teammates were there.

We only have one roster spot left and I'd rather we fill it with a back up center or at least a vet swingman who's taken better advantage of the chances given to him

Bottom line is he's low risk high reward, why not?

Because thus far the only additions to the roster are a pair of rookies and a center prospect and because this team already has two young injury-plagued swingmen.  Why add a project SF that can't pass or extend the defense to a team that had trouble spacing the floor last season, and needs contributors now for a second title run.

When healthy, Miles's jump shot was still awful (17% 3PT, 58% FT) and he still had a worse than 1:1 career assist/TO ratio.

[soap07]

Because I don't play the "in hindsight" game. I play the "you use the information you have currently" and "under the current circumstances" game. It wasn't a bad signing.

Okay, the information we had the time included the fact that Pollard had barely played the year before due to injury and has had his career riddled with injuries in general. This season, Pollard missed most of the year due to injury. Considering Pollard's injury history was presented to Ainge at the time, the "current circumstances" should have dictated to stay away from him.

"We had plenty of roster sposts open. We used the vet. min. How is that a bad signing? Did it hurt the team? Did it prevent the team from improving itself through the season? No. It wasn't a bad decision."

Really? By this definition, any vet minimum signing cannot possibly be a bad signing because it does not hinder a team's finances. Come on. Pollard was not brought in to play 22 games and offer minimum production in those 22 games. Of course it was a bad signing. It would be different if he was signed to a pro-rated salary for a quarter of a season. But he was getting paid to play for a full season and he played 1/4 while playing at a low-level in those games.



Miles has been worked out, so already there has been more due dilligence. As I said in my post IF Danny is doing his research, and he decides Miles is the way to go, who am I to question him when I have ZERO knowledge of Miles current situation; none of us do. If he decides to go with Miles without proper information, then it'll be completely foolish.

I'm not disputing the sentiments of this. However, we DO have SOME knowledge of Miles' current situatin. This is a fact - a third party doctor declared Miles' knee injury to be career ending. That is a humongous red-flag and one that can't be removed by a successful workout or two.

[nickagneta]

Miles is damaged goods. Coming off a major surgury and last report was way out of shape.

The only thing Miles had going was his he was a amazing athlete and now thats gone.

No need for a shooting guard that can't shoot.

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53762/20080727/boston_still_interested_in_darius_miles/

Honestly, why not take a flier on this guy?

Walker will probably play overseas next year.

Giddens isn't going to be contributing regularly for the next 2 years.

Miles is a guy who's proven he can play NBA defense individually. On a team like the Celtics which prides itself in its defensive prowess, I think he would be an asset. Furthrmore, if reports are accurate about his having re-gained a good deal of his athleticism, I say bring him aboard.

Potentially, the Celtics would still have a roster spot open even with Miles aboard for a veteran big man.

The man has to sit for the first 10 games you have him because he was caught taking a dieretic because he can't keep his weight down to perform well.

Add that to the fact that he hasn't played ball in 2 years and that doctors have already proclaimed his injury career endng, and what you have is a basketball player with a fork sticking out of him. He's well done.

I would rather Doc be given the kids to teach and attempt to produce than a reclammation project that makes Scot Pollard look healthy.

First of all, Miles is not a shooting guard. Secondly, when was it that he was way out of shape? When was it that he was caught taking some substance to help with his diet? Just because reports have surfaced recently it doesn't mean that these things were recent, so I'm wondering...

We're aware that we are months away from the start of the season right?

Anyways, Danny and the rest are not going into this blindly. They're well informed of the situation. They have worked him out personally. They're getting first hand reports from primary sources. If the Celtics decide that Miles is the way to go, I trust that it'll be after studying, researching, and examining the situation carefully. If that's not the case, then it'll be quite foolish and dumb, but otherwise we just can't tell or know from where we stand. We don't have enough information or knowledge to draw good conclusions on the matter... not until we at the least see him play ourselves.

http://www.portlandtribune.com/sports/story.php?story_id=121657118543105800

Now, though, ESPN.com writer Marc Stein is reporting that all 30 NBA teams were notified last week by the league that the drug Darius Miles tested positive for was a weight-loss drug, ****. It's not an amphetamine but is apparently related to them with many of the same properties.

It was the same banned substance that landed Lindsay Hunter a 10-game suspension last March. "I'm as shocked as anyone," Hunter said at the time. "It was a diet pill — we've all taken stuff and nothing ever happens."

Obviously, that's not a big deal to NBA teams — Miles was reportedly overweight from his long period of time without physical activity and in a rush to lose poundage to get back into playing shape.

That doesn't answer my question though. It doesn't answer the WHEN he was out of shape. It doesn't explain WHEN he was caught using the substance. And for someone who apparently is doing all he can to get in shape, a month or so can do wonders... one can lose easily 8-10 pounds in 4 weeks or so, so this "recent" business is highly questionable.

What do their respective contract situations have to do anything? The point was made that Miles is coming off what was classified as a career ending injury and that he would be damaged goods if he signed here. Similar points, on a lesser scale, were made about Pollard and Lafrentz. Both ended up injured and unproductive, even with the due diligence that you suggested Ainge goes through.

On another note, how in the world can you claim that Pollard was a good signing in hindsight?

Because I don't play the "in hindsight" game. I play the "you use the information you have currently" and "under the current circumstances" game. It wasn't a bad signing.

Anyways, the circumstances are different. Was Pollard worked out? And I'm pretty sure that the injury that kept him from playing more was an unrelated one to the one that there was concern for coming to the season. We had plenty of roster sposts open. We used the vet. min. How is that a bad signing? Did it hurt the team? Did it prevent the team from improving itself through the season? No. It wasn't a bad decision.

 Miles has been worked out, so already there has been more due dilligence. As I said in my post IF Danny is doing his research, and he decides Miles is the way to go, who am I to question him when I have ZERO knowledge of Miles current situation; none of us do. If he decides to go with Miles without proper information, then it'll be completely foolish.

The NBA is very secretive about drug testing as a whole and results specifically. You know as well as I do that your question about when he was tested and suspended can't be answered because that information doesn't get released.

What was released is that he was in fact suspended for using a dietary pill because he was having trouble dropping weight while trying to get into shape for his workouts.

So perhaps he got in good enough shape to have some decent workouts. Perhaps it was well before his workouts. But if he was in such great shape and teams thought he would last based on medical reports of what the MRI on his knee looks like he would already have been signed.

He might be in good enough shape to last long enough for some workouts but his medical scans, MRIs, x-rays, and reports could well say that he will never last an NBA season.

And since the Portland team doctor and an independent doctor have both said the same thing, that his injury is career ending, I'm saying he is done. He may look good for a tryout now but the real question is whether he would last. It's a $1.5 million gamble Danny would have to take. That's a bit rich for my blood.

[Cman]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53762/20080727/boston_still_interested_in_darius_miles/

Honestly, why not take a flier on this guy?

Walker will probably play overseas next year.

Giddens isn't going to be contributing regularly for the next 2 years.

Miles is a guy who's proven he can play NBA defense individually. On a team like the Celtics which prides itself in its defensive prowess, I think he would be an asset. Furthrmore, if reports are accurate about his having re-gained a good deal of his athleticism, I say bring him aboard.

Potentially, the Celtics would still have a roster spot open even with Miles aboard for a veteran big man.

Why would Walker play overseas?  What source says he "probably" will?

Came up in early July.


http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20767.0




Makes sense to me.  The Celtics have no 1st rounder next year.  A healthy Walker with another year of experience will be like a 1st round rookie next year. 

I know it has come up before -- it seems to come up every time someone wants to sign two additional players even though there is only one remaining roster spot (assuming both Giddens and Walker are signed).  The thinking is that since it came up in an interview with Dickerson, it is what is going to happen.... my take regarding the interview is that Walker was being polite, and there has been no other information regarding this idea from the Cs or Walker or his agent since. 

The move doesn't make much sense to me -- can't Walker play in the NBDL and the Cs call him up if needed?  He would get plenty of experience in the NBDL and probably also a fair bit of experience working out with the regular guys when called up.  Do we really want Walker to go to Europe and learn nothing about defense?  Wouldn't we rather he get his one year of experience here in the US where we can use him if necessary (ie: call him up if he seems ready)? 

Okay, apologies to the OP -- didn't mean to hijack your thread.

To get it back on track, I don't think the Cs will sign Miles.  The only thing additional he would bring to the 3 spot is length (Cs already have an athletic guy who can drive the basket and play D in Tony Allen).  Center is more of a need at this point.

[Shaqzilla]

Make it happen Danny. If Danny said his workout was impressive let's sign him. Darius plays that rugged and raw street style of defense and offense that the Celtics could use coming off the bench. If Darius is healthy enough give him the minimum.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Okay, the information we had the time included the fact that Pollard had barely played the year before due to injury and has had his career riddled with injuries in general. This season, Pollard missed most of the year due to injury. Considering Pollard's injury history was presented to Ainge at the time, the "current circumstances" should have dictated to stay away from him.

We also had a depleted team, that needed to be filled with bodies, especially veterans off the bench. We didn't have the resources to go after many people. It was towards the end of free-agency, not many good options around. We needed to pull the trigger quickly before we're left with nobody and going into the season with a truely depleted team. Who were the better options at the time? Esteban Batista?

Really? By this definition, any vet minimum signing cannot possibly be a bad signing because it does not hinder a team's finances. Come on. Pollard was not brought in to play 22 games and offer minimum production in those 22 games. Of course it was a bad signing. It would be different if he was signed to a pro-rated salary for a quarter of a season. But he was getting paid to play for a full season and he played 1/4 while playing at a low-level in those games.

Only if when we have roster spots to waste, which we had plenty of them last year at the time. Or are we forgetting that we sent away most of our bench in a trade for Garnett. We were equiped with limited resources, and the talent level at the min. isn't the best. At the least we got a capable veteran who is a good team player, role player, and defender. If he works out, awesome... great back-up, if he doesn't, you don't sweat it.

The NBA is very secretive about drug testing as a whole and results specifically. You know as well as I do that your question about when he was tested and suspended can't be answered because that information doesn't get released.

Exactly. So let's stop with the assumptions and treating them as facts. Concerned? Sure. But let's state things like they are. For all we know Danny might think that Miles wasn't impressive at all and is not really going after him. But, that's the closest we have on Miles as far as recent is concerned, that he's looking much better than anticipated. Who knos.

And since the Portland team doctor and an independent doctor have both said the same thing, that his injury is career ending, I'm saying he is done. He may look good for a tryout now but the real question is whether he would last. It's a $1.5 million gamble Danny would have to take. That's a bit rich for my blood.

It's really $1.07 million total (including tax, or is it $1.1m? somewhere in that range. Does it count years that he didn't play? the most it would be is about $1.14m). Would we rather have someone else? Well that's a different discussion, in my opinion. One completely different to the pros and cons of signing Miles, while bringing a ton of assumptions and treating them as facts on the merits that someone like Miles might bring. It's a different discussion than eliminating Miles as an option based on these so called "facts" and "recent" ones at that. 

I wonder if some doctor would evaluate Miles now if he would say it was a career ending injury. This is a legit question to ask, and I'd be interested in the evaluation. If it's examined, and it's not considered a career ending injury, does it throw that last test out of the window and makes it false?

I'll tell you this, as we are I'd rather sign the rookies, and go with one roster spot open to the season. I'm in a wait and see mode. But, if for whatever reason Danny feels that Miles brings enough to the table to fill that roster spot then I can't judge it much until I see Miles play with my own eyes. We really have 3 open roster spots available at the moment sadly. We still don't know what's going to happen with our rookies, especially Walker.

So who knows. Maybe Danny doesn't see it as Miles getting our last roster spot. Maybe he has some trades to consider. There are a bunch of factors and scenarios here that are not being considered.

[Reyquila]

Think a controversial guy like DM is going to miss 10 games and then sit at the end of the bench with Scal and play Pinocle  and still be interested enough in whats going on to give 100% when he gets his few minutes of playing time.? Not. He is banking on what he could do once upon a time and he will want enough minutes to show again his stuff. I believe he is not going to be a happy camper if he doesnt get his minutes and I dont think his personality will urge him to be the type of player that will have to earn his minutes. He will think he is beyond that stage in his life.
There is(are) a reason(s) why he hasnt been signed yet if he was 1/2 as efficient as he is being portrayed in here by some well meaning posters. A few yrs. ago, I wanted the Celtics to trade for him. Now, Im not sure. I just dont think in the long run, he will be a happy camper in here. He will just want more playing time that he will get, as things stand now. Well, if danny signs him, Nothing we can do about it, right? If he is not signed, ditto.  So be it.

[Evantime34]

They dont like him, cut him. There is an upside with him, but no down side.

That's an understatement. There's a reason L.A. first traded him, that Cleveland dealt him amidst concerns that he couldn't co-exist with Lebron James, and that Portland wouldn't allow him to rehab at the Blazers' facilities while his teammates were there.

We only have one roster spot left and I'd rather we fill it with a back up center or at least a vet swingman who's taken better advantage of the chances given to him

Bottom line is he's low risk high reward, why not?

Because thus far the only additions to the roster are a pair of rookies and a center prospect and because this team already has two young injury-plagued swingmen.  Why add a project SF that can't pass or extend the defense to a team that had trouble spacing the floor last season, and needs contributors now for a second title run.

When healthy, Miles's jump shot was still awful (17% 3PT, 58% FT) and he still had a worse than 1:1 career assist/TO ratio.

Well your argument would be valid if we had a lot of money left to sign players and there were a lot of players left for us to choose from. Where are these contributors going to come from? We still have 3 spots left (if Walker goes abroad) why not have one of em be Miles. Then we still have two more spots left to sign these imaginary players you think we should go after.

[Vermont Green]

In that nobody in the league seems to be in a real hurry to sign Darius, maybe the Celtics can invite him into camp on a non-gauranteed make good type of contract.  Then, if he holds up and shows he can play, he gets a contract if not, bon voyage.  This involves a different kind of risk, the risk that someone else grabs him before camp but I don't think the Celtics are too worried if this one gets away.

[bucknersrevenge]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53762/20080727/boston_still_interested_in_darius_miles/

Honestly, why not take a flier on this guy?

Walker will probably play overseas next year.

Giddens isn't going to be contributing regularly for the next 2 years.

Miles is a guy who's proven he can play NBA defense individually. On a team like the Celtics which prides itself in its defensive prowess, I think he would be an asset. Furthrmore, if reports are accurate about his having re-gained a good deal of his athleticism, I say bring him aboard.

Potentially, the Celtics would still have a roster spot open even with Miles aboard for a veteran big man.

Why would Walker play overseas?  What source says he "probably" will?

Came up in early July.


http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20767.0




Makes sense to me.  The Celtics have no 1st rounder next year.  A healthy Walker with another year of experience will be like a 1st round rookie next year. 

still waiting for the source that says he "probably" will. that source says nothing of the sort. he was asked offhand if he'd be willing to go he says yes, probably just to be agreeable. another report has his agent saying he doesnt expect him to go overseas. nothing ive read attributed to danny and doc says this is happening at all nor is a probability by any stretch. "nba sources" say its being discussed. but until it happens thats a giant leap to conclusions based on nothing but idle speculation at best.

[Chris]

http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/53762/20080727/boston_still_interested_in_darius_miles/

Honestly, why not take a flier on this guy?

Walker will probably play overseas next year.

Giddens isn't going to be contributing regularly for the next 2 years.

Miles is a guy who's proven he can play NBA defense individually. On a team like the Celtics which prides itself in its defensive prowess, I think he would be an asset. Furthrmore, if reports are accurate about his having re-gained a good deal of his athleticism, I say bring him aboard.

Potentially, the Celtics would still have a roster spot open even with Miles aboard for a veteran big man.

Why would Walker play overseas?  What source says he "probably" will?

Came up in early July.


http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20767.0




Makes sense to me.  The Celtics have no 1st rounder next year.  A healthy Walker with another year of experience will be like a 1st round rookie next year. 

still waiting for the source that says he "probably" will. that source says nothing of the sort. he was asked offhand if he'd be willing to go he says yes, probably just to be agreeable. another report has his agent saying he doesnt expect him to go overseas. nothing ive read attributed to danny and doc says this is happening at all nor is a probability by any stretch. "nba sources" say its being discussed. but until it happens thats a giant leap to conclusions based on nothing but idle speculation at best.

There is no source, it is pure speculation, based on a couple quotes.

Danny had said before the draft that he wanted to draft players who would be willing to play in Europe, and then after the draft, Tanguay (I think) took it upon himself to ask Walker if he would be willing to go IF he was asked, and he said yes. 

So people put 2 and 2 together, and it took on a life of its own, even though there was never any actual quote from C's management saying they had any interest in sending Walker overseas.

Personally, I don't think they have any interest in sending Walker overseas, because he needs to be working with their trainers to strengthen his knee.

[nickagneta]

Okay, the information we had the time included the fact that Pollard had barely played the year before due to injury and has had his career riddled with injuries in general. This season, Pollard missed most of the year due to injury. Considering Pollard's injury history was presented to Ainge at the time, the "current circumstances" should have dictated to stay away from him.

We also had a depleted team, that needed to be filled with bodies, especially veterans off the bench. We didn't have the resources to go after many people. It was towards the end of free-agency, not many good options around. We needed to pull the trigger quickly before we're left with nobody and going into the season with a truely depleted team. Who were the better options at the time? Esteban Batista?

Really? By this definition, any vet minimum signing cannot possibly be a bad signing because it does not hinder a team's finances. Come on. Pollard was not brought in to play 22 games and offer minimum production in those 22 games. Of course it was a bad signing. It would be different if he was signed to a pro-rated salary for a quarter of a season. But he was getting paid to play for a full season and he played 1/4 while playing at a low-level in those games.

Only if when we have roster spots to waste, which we had plenty of them last year at the time. Or are we forgetting that we sent away most of our bench in a trade for Garnett. We were equiped with limited resources, and the talent level at the min. isn't the best. At the least we got a capable veteran who is a good team player, role player, and defender. If he works out, awesome... great back-up, if he doesn't, you don't sweat it.

The NBA is very secretive about drug testing as a whole and results specifically. You know as well as I do that your question about when he was tested and suspended can't be answered because that information doesn't get released.

Exactly. So let's stop with the assumptions and treating them as facts. Concerned? Sure. But let's state things like they are. For all we know Danny might think that Miles wasn't impressive at all and is not really going after him. But, that's the closest we have on Miles as far as recent is concerned, that he's looking much better than anticipated. Who knos.

And since the Portland team doctor and an independent doctor have both said the same thing, that his injury is career ending, I'm saying he is done. He may look good for a tryout now but the real question is whether he would last. It's a $1.5 million gamble Danny would have to take. That's a bit rich for my blood.

It's really $1.07 million total (including tax, or is it $1.1m? somewhere in that range. Does it count years that he didn't play? the most it would be is about $1.14m). Would we rather have someone else? Well that's a different discussion, in my opinion. One completely different to the pros and cons of signing Miles, while bringing a ton of assumptions and treating them as facts on the merits that someone like Miles might bring. It's a different discussion than eliminating Miles as an option based on these so called "facts" and "recent" ones at that. 

I wonder if some doctor would evaluate Miles now if he would say it was a career ending injury. This is a legit question to ask, and I'd be interested in the evaluation. If it's examined, and it's not considered a career ending injury, does it throw that last test out of the window and makes it false?

I'll tell you this, as we are I'd rather sign the rookies, and go with one roster spot open to the season. I'm in a wait and see mode. But, if for whatever reason Danny feels that Miles brings enough to the table to fill that roster spot then I can't judge it much until I see Miles play with my own eyes. We really have 3 open roster spots available at the moment sadly. We still don't know what's going to happen with our rookies, especially Walker.

So who knows. Maybe Danny doesn't see it as Miles getting our last roster spot. Maybe he has some trades to consider. There are a bunch of factors and scenarios here that are not being considered.

First off, I never said that the information I gave was up to the minute recent. I said that he was suspended 10 games. I said it was because of a dieretic he was taking because he was having trouble keeping off the weight. I said that he hadn't played in 2 years. I said that doctors found his knee unfit to resume a career. It's all the truth and it all has transpired within the last few months.

Second, I don't think it matters how good he looks in his workouts. The tell all will be in whether he can pass a physical and whether doctors for the Celtics determine that he can play for a whole season. Remember, the evaluation of the Portland doctor and the arbitration doctor were from this year. The doctor from the league appointment only made his determination in April. Do you think that his knee has healed so much in 4 months that suddenly doctors will say that he is 100% ready to go?

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=120822444396463300

The doctors that examined him said it was the worst microfracture injury they had ever seen and that the probability of eventual knee replacement was very high.

Now is that yesterday's news? No. It was news from April 18, 2008. But injuries of that type don't go from being career ending to ready to rock n roll in four months.

Also, it is a $1.5 million gamble since the vet min contract is subsidized by the league for anything over somewhere around $740K. Since the Celts would have to pay that salary and a dollar for dollar penalty as well the total is $1.5 milliuon or so.

Lots of money to gamble on a guy doctors 4 months ago deemed unable to ever play again.

[Roy Hobbs]

We don't need any more projects on this roster.  We should be focused on players who can help us win now, rather than gambling on players who realistically might not be able to play a complete season.