The evolution of Tony Allen: 4 years later, he still has "potential"

[Birdbrain]

Danny has demonstrated that he understands the concept of "role player."  By re-signing House and Tony, he chose to add two players who, whatever their vices, contribute certain unique virtues to the Boston Celtics' team character. 

House is a shooter/scorer with ice water in his veins.  Every good team needs a guy like that off the bench.  Because he's (mostly) passable at everything else required for his position, he brings more to the table than he takes off.

Tony Allen is a high energy guy, a slasher, "instigator" and capable perimeter defender.  Like Rondo, TA ocassionally will make a play and thereby create points or possessions for the team that few players could or would make.  Yes, his play can be inconsistent; however, for a little more than 2 million per, what do you expect?  At worst, presuming he stays healthy, he provides the team a true competitor on both ends of the court that can be let go the summer of '10, when real retooling can be attempted.

 A factor not to be overlooked: both players are well-liked, good teammates, and genuninely decent people (the shooting incident notwithstanding).  There's also something to be said for continuity. In light of all these fact, and recognizing his limitations, I believe TA has earned another two years.  Let's hope he makes the most of them.

TP thanks for this post.  I'm still trying to figure out why there is so much angst about a player that at his worst will play good defense off the bench at 2.5 million for 2 years.  At his best he can score without the need of a good facilitator which with a team that only has House and Pruitt as backup PGs might be a necessity. 

[BballTim]

I just refuse to believe that once a 1st round draft pick has been in the league past his rookie contract, that teams still look upon those players as having potential. They pay those players for what they are not what they can be.

  I think players with injuries fall into a different category. Tony was really turning the corner when he blew out his knee. If he plays at anywhere near that level he'll be a great bargain.

[Jon]

I think the problem most of Tony's critics have with him come from the mental, rather than the physical, side of the game.  He hasn't made much progress on that end in four years, and it tends to be very frustrating.

And that's exactly the type of player that doesn't pan out in the NBA.  See Jerome Moiso, Kedrick Brown, and Gerald Green.  I don't quite see him as being as mentally handicapped as those three, but that's exactly what this current Celtic team isn't about. 

[Weird Facts]

I think the problem most of Tony's critics have with him come from the mental, rather than the physical, side of the game.  He hasn't made much progress on that end in four years, and it tends to be very frustrating.

Roy, I think there is a problem with most of Tony's critics, rather than the problems the critics point out.

I mean this guy has a well structured, good looking paragraph.  However, how can I in my right mind think his argument holds water when he states Tony Allen suffered his knee injury in a bar room fight?

This leads me to believe he didn't watch too many games after Pierce went down last season and Tony Dominated for a 15 game period before his eventual injury.

I'll tell you this much folks, say what you want about Tony, but your foot will be in your mouth by the end of the season. 

3 game streak for a bad player, possible.   5 game streak for a bad player, unlikely.

15 games of 19 points, 6 rebounds, 4 steals.  Not Happening

During the 15 games

game high in points was 30.

And for the fair weather fans who stopped watching last year when the Celtics were struggling.

The game Tony suffered his Knee injury, I can't dig up the exact stats.

but from my knowledge, there was about 20 minutes of basketball left to be played.

Tony had: (again this is an estimate from my memory)

22 points  5 rebounds 5 steals.

there was about 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter at this time. 

You don't put up those numbers unless you are fully capable of putting up those numbers.  Especially when you look at this and realize,  Paul Pierce was injured Wally was injured and there were really no other scorers on the team.

In other words its not like when Leone Powe scored 24 and while the opposition was worried about stopping Pierce, Garnett and Ray Allen.

All they had to do was stop Tony Allen, no one else of threat was on the court, and Tony could not be stopped.  Enough said.

Don't forget a knee injury of Tony's kind - Regular recovery time 18 Months.

Still wanna doubt / hate.  Well then I can't wait to see how many people change their tunes once the seasons tarts up

[Bankshot]

I think the problem most of Tony's critics have with him come from the mental, rather than the physical, side of the game.  He hasn't made much progress on that end in four years, and it tends to be very frustrating.

Roy, I think there is a problem with most of Tony's critics, rather than the problems the critics point out.

I mean this guy has a well structured, good looking paragraph.  However, how can I in my right mind think his argument holds water when he states Tony Allen suffered his knee injury in a bar room fight?

This leads me to believe he didn't watch too many games after Pierce went down last season and Tony Dominated for a 15 game period before his eventual injury.

I'll tell you this much folks, say what you want about Tony, but your foot will be in your mouth by the end of the season. 

3 game streak for a bad player, possible.   5 game streak for a bad player, unlikely.

15 games of 19 points, 6 rebounds, 4 steals.  Not Happening

During the 15 games

game high in points was 30.

And for the fair weather fans who stopped watching last year when the Celtics were struggling.

The game Tony suffered his Knee injury, I can't dig up the exact stats.

but from my knowledge, there was about 20 minutes of basketball left to be played.

Tony had: (again this is an estimate from my memory)

22 points  5 rebounds 5 steals.

there was about 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter at this time. 

You don't put up those numbers unless you are fully capable of putting up those numbers.  Especially when you look at this and realize,  Paul Pierce was injured Wally was injured and there were really no other scorers on the team.

In other words its not like when Leone Powe scored 24 and while the opposition was worried about stopping Pierce, Garnett and Ray Allen.

All they had to do was stop Tony Allen, no one else of threat was on the court, and Tony could not be stopped.  Enough said.

Don't forget a knee injury of Tony's kind - Regular recovery time 18 Months.

Still wanna doubt / hate.  Well then I can't wait to see how many people change their tunes once the seasons tarts up

Great post.  I agree 100%.  Tony will be great for the Celtics this year.

[zerophase]

yea, tony allen really didn't get regular playing time this year. that doesn't mean he can't do what he did before. he needs ample playing time if he's going to show us what he can do or still do. he looked pretty good against the lakers in la during the regular season when he started for the injured rajon.

[Chris]

Danny has demonstrated that he understands the concept of "role player."  By re-signing House and Tony, he chose to add two players who, whatever their vices, contribute certain unique virtues to the Boston Celtics' team character. 

House is a shooter/scorer with ice water in his veins.  Every good team needs a guy like that off the bench.  Because he's (mostly) passable at everything else required for his position, he brings more to the table than he takes off.

Tony Allen is a high energy guy, a slasher, "instigator" and capable perimeter defender.  Like Rondo, TA ocassionally will make a play and thereby create points or possessions for the team that few players could or would make.  Yes, his play can be inconsistent; however, for a little more than 2 million per, what do you expect?  At worst, presuming he stays healthy, he provides the team a true competitor on both ends of the court that can be let go the summer of '10, when real retooling can be attempted.

 A factor not to be overlooked: both players are well-liked, good teammates, and genuninely decent people (the shooting incident notwithstanding).  There's also something to be said for continuity. In light of all these fact, and recognizing his limitations, I believe TA has earned another two years.  Let's hope he makes the most of them.

TP thanks for this post.  I'm still trying to figure out why there is so much angst about a player that at his worst will play good defense off the bench at 2.5 million for 2 years.  At his best he can score without the need of a good facilitator which with a team that only has House and Pruitt as backup PGs might be a necessity. 

Because at his worst, he will cause as much havoc on the C's offense as he would on the opponents.

[Edgar]

Hes better and cheaper than Scali 

[jdub1660]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

[Chris]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

At what point does it go from a reason to an excuse?

[crownsy]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

At what point does it go from a reason to an excuse?

for me, about halfway through last year it wnet into excuse land.

i'm willing to extend and olive branch to the "don't pick on the hurt guy!!!" crowd though.

can we agree this is out the window as an excuse for this year?

or will it still be brought up whenever he has a horrid game?

[Chris]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

At what point does it go from a reason to an excuse?

for me, about halfway through last year it wnet into excuse land.

i'm willing to extend and olive branch to the "don't pick on the hurt guy!!!" crowd though.

can we agree this is out the window as an excuse for this year?

or will it still be brought up whenever he has a horrid game?

Yup, he is on his second contract...all excuses go out the window (you can say the same thing with O'Bryant I think).

BTW, I actually am not that down on this signing.  I think there is a chance Tony puts it together this year.  I just am not fan of making excuses for his complete lack of focus over the last 4 years.

[crownsy]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

At what point does it go from a reason to an excuse?

for me, about halfway through last year it wnet into excuse land.

i'm willing to extend and olive branch to the "don't pick on the hurt guy!!!" crowd though.

can we agree this is out the window as an excuse for this year?

or will it still be brought up whenever he has a horrid game?

Yup, he is on his second contract...all excuses go out the window (you can say the same thing with O'Bryant I think).

BTW, I actually am not that down on this signing.  I think there is a chance Tony puts it together this year.  I just am not fan of making excuses for his complete lack of focus over the last 4 years.

same here, Hopefully he'll get it together this year. the talent is there for sure. I also liek the signing, espically at the cost. I'm in the same boat as you, like to be able to evaluate the guy without being accused of bashing a hurt guy.

[nickagneta]

I think the problem most of Tony's critics have with him come from the mental, rather than the physical, side of the game.  He hasn't made much progress on that end in four years, and it tends to be very frustrating.

Roy, I think there is a problem with most of Tony's critics, rather than the problems the critics point out.

I mean this guy has a well structured, good looking paragraph.  However, how can I in my right mind think his argument holds water when he states Tony Allen suffered his knee injury in a bar room fight?

This leads me to believe he didn't watch too many games after Pierce went down last season and Tony Dominated for a 15 game period before his eventual injury.

I'll tell you this much folks, say what you want about Tony, but your foot will be in your mouth by the end of the season. 

3 game streak for a bad player, possible.   5 game streak for a bad player, unlikely.

15 games of 19 points, 6 rebounds, 4 steals.  Not Happening

During the 15 games

game high in points was 30.

And for the fair weather fans who stopped watching last year when the Celtics were struggling.

The game Tony suffered his Knee injury, I can't dig up the exact stats.

but from my knowledge, there was about 20 minutes of basketball left to be played.

Tony had: (again this is an estimate from my memory)

22 points  5 rebounds 5 steals.

there was about 7 minutes left in the 3rd quarter at this time. 

You don't put up those numbers unless you are fully capable of putting up those numbers.  Especially when you look at this and realize,  Paul Pierce was injured Wally was injured and there were really no other scorers on the team.

In other words its not like when Leone Powe scored 24 and while the opposition was worried about stopping Pierce, Garnett and Ray Allen.

All they had to do was stop Tony Allen, no one else of threat was on the court, and Tony could not be stopped.  Enough said.

Don't forget a knee injury of Tony's kind - Regular recovery time 18 Months.

Still wanna doubt / hate.  Well then I can't wait to see how many people change their tunes once the seasons tarts up

Here's some monthly stretches for some other players. Are they considered as good as you consider Tony Allen:

Dan Dickau - 16.2 PPG, 4.7 APG, 2.8 RPG 1.25 SPG Feb.2005
Earl Boykins - 18.2 PPG, 5.1 APG, 2.8 RPG, 1 APG  Jan.2007
Othella Harrington - 16.9PPG , 7.9 RPG  Nov.1999
Eddie Griffin - 13.5 PPG, 7.5 RPG, 0.9 APG, 2.93 BPG  Jan.2002
Michael Olowakandi - 16.8 PPG, 10.7 RPG, 1.8 APG, 1.4 BPG, .95 SPG Mar.2002
Morris Peterson - 21 PPG, 2.2 APG, 4.3 RPG, 1.38 SPG  Mar.2006
Brian Skinner - 13.7 PPG, 9.7 RPG Apr 2004


None of the above are superstars. Heck some of them suck. But most are serviceable bench players that at one point in time had a month that they played out of their minds.

What's to say Tony wasn't just having one of those months and once the league caught on to what he was doing they wouldn't have shut him down back to his normal playing averages if he hadn't hurt himself.

I watched those games. He and Al were the only thing worth watching that team for. Teams didn't have a clue as to what to make of those guys that year because they blossomed out of nowhere. They haven't ever shut Al down because he has natural, unbelievable low post moves and a strong lower body. But once they saw that you could make Allen go left and he would turn the ball over, Tony was in trouble.

[KevinGamble]

There's reason's for everything. This rookie season...he was a rookie. The next 2 seasons he was hurt for the most part. After a knee injury, he comes back in the BIG 3 season and does his job as a recovering role player. he had an awesome block on Ginobli (look it up on nba.com, player section under Tony Allen) With Posey gone and no actual addition to that position(besides draft picks) Tony Allen has all the opportunity in the world to prove his 2.5ish million dollar worth in these next 2 seasons. And with him being healthy now, %100, expect him to be great in his new role.

At what point does it go from a reason to an excuse?

for me, about halfway through last year it wnet into excuse land.

i'm willing to extend and olive branch to the "don't pick on the hurt guy!!!" crowd though.

can we agree this is out the window as an excuse for this year?

or will it still be brought up whenever he has a horrid game?

I think the issue here is not potential, but "consistency".  The shot/ shot selection needs some, and so does the ball handling.  He has actualized the potential on many occasions, my favorites include:

Blowing right by Kobe with ease for a lay-up (which I think he missed) in the finals, and a gem three years ago [I think] where he help-defended on a player squaring up on a celtic getting ready to make his move when he reached between the dudes legs and and stole it!  The guy never even saw it coming and then still didn't look like he knew what hit him!

Pierce cut down on the turnovers this year.  As the year went on, "Evil Paul" really cut it out.  could amazing TA play "Evil Tony" out of his system with people depending on him and consistent playing time?  I wanna see it, I want to believe. 

Go Celts!