Should we blame ellsbury or francona??

[Rondo2287]

I bet there's a new lineup out there on Friday when Ortiz comes back:

Pedroia
Drew or Youkilis
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell (or Drew if Youk bats 2nd)
Youk (or Lowell if Drew bats 5th)
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

Moving Pedroia out of the two whole is absolutely insane.  Why mess with a hitter who is batting about 500 over the last month.  Ellsbury will come out of this slump, he has proven earlier this year and last season that he can hit at the major league level he just needs to get it going. 

If they do move Ellsbury I think you are more likely to see Drew lead off tomorrow since Ortiz will be batting in the three hole.  Also Francona has a history of sticking with guys when they are struggling.  This is the strategy that made Pedroia rookie of the year last year and I just dont see him changing his style of play especially after Ellsbury's hit was what started the rally to win the game yesterday. 

[ReadyFor17]

I bet there's a new lineup out there on Friday when Ortiz comes back:

Pedroia
Drew or Youkilis
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell (or Drew if Youk bats 2nd)
Youk (or Lowell if Drew bats 5th)
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

Moving Pedroia out of the two whole is absolutely insane.  Why mess with a hitter who is batting about 500 over the last month.  Ellsbury will come out of this slump, he has proven earlier this year and last season that he can hit at the major league level he just needs to get it going. 

If they do move Ellsbury I think you are more likely to see Drew lead off tomorrow since Ortiz will be batting in the three hole.  Also Francona has a history of sticking with guys when they are struggling.  This is the strategy that made Pedroia rookie of the year last year and I just dont see him changing his style of play especially after Ellsbury's hit was what started the rally to win the game yesterday. 

You think Pedroia wouldn't hit anywhere in the lineup? Really? If there's one guy on the team that would hit no matter where he was in the lineup it's Pedroia because he can hit any pitch in any location. He's the last person I would worry about. And in case you've forgotten, the guy led off in the playoffs and for 31 games in the regular season - and he was great, better than he was batting 2nd actually. How could Pedroia be negatively affected if everyone just moved up one spot? I'd love to hear why it's insane to think Pedroia is good enough to hit anywhere in the lineup.

I actually believe that lineup construction has little to no effect on the outcome of a game, as long as the best hitters on the team get the most at bats. Right now, Ellsbury is one of the worst hitters on the team and has been for awhile yet he gets more at bats than anyone. I believe in Ells as much as the next guy but until he figures out his swing he shouldn't be getting more at bats than guys that...you know...can hit the ball right now. He's hurting the team right now, but he's a big boy and I don't think it would hurt his feelings to move down in the lineup. And I'll choose to give more weight to the last two months as opposed to one groundball yesterday that went through the infield.

[MBz]

If Ellsbury is hitting 9th, there is no reason why Coco shouldn't be there.  Coco's glove is better and lately, the bats are similar.  Ellsbury's OBP is better but if he's gonna keep hitting .250 I want Crisp in there.

[Triboy16]

well i rather have crisp sit and ellsbury play. Your argument is valid, but the redsox really want ellsbury as their future cf and not crisp. Crisp i tell you is going to be out the door via trade deadline. Thats my feeling

ellsbury can hit, he has a quick bat no doubt but his approach and being able to identify balls he hits best is his problem.

I aint no hitting coach but i like to see him go opposite way more often. Leadoff hitters out of any hitter in the lineup should be able to get on base by any means possible which includes pulling the ball, going opposite way, bunting, walking. Power is not a necessity

[MBz]

I understand they want Ellsbury as the future CF, but I just see him as a poor man's Kenny Lofton.  Ellsbury's trade value is still rather high, I'd rather trade Ellsbury in the off-season and get someone of significant value.

[ReadyFor17]

If Ellsbury is hitting 9th, there is no reason why Coco shouldn't be there.  Coco's glove is better and lately, the bats are similar.  Ellsbury's OBP is better but if he's gonna keep hitting .250 I want Crisp in there.

Coco might have a slight advantage now but I think Ellsbury is more of a natural in the field and will be better.

Ellsbury is much better reading the ball off the bat than Coco is - case in point being the atrocious backwards break that Coco took on a short popup and Jacoby had to bail him out from left field.

Coco has been more willing to take a walk lately but neither of them have been much to write home about. I give Ellsbury the edge because he's very likely to improve while Coco has been treading water (poorly) since he got to Boston.

edit: I've heard the poor man's Kenny Lofton stuff before but what's wrong with that? Lofton was a great baseball player. I'd take a poor man's Lofton anyday. At the very least Jacoby can bridge the gap until the next wave of cf prospects gets close to the majors (and the Sox have several good looking outfield prospects in the lower minors).

[MBz]

I have no issue with a poor man's Kenny Lofton, but if you look at everything from last September, this could was supposed to be a supposed star and I just don't see it.

[ReadyFor17]

I have no issue with a poor man's Kenny Lofton, but if you look at everything from last September, this could was supposed to be a supposed star and I just don't see it.

We was superhyped after last season when he played way over his head, and right now he's in what is probably the worst slump of his baseball life. He might not be a bonafide all star year in year out type player, but I think he'll settle in between last year and his recent performance - about a .750 OPS player with great defense who could make a couple all-star games.

You're right, he looked bound for superstardom but he'll probably end up just being pretty good to very good with flashes of greatness like we saw last season.

[xmuscularghandix]

If Ellsbury is hitting 9th, there is no reason why Coco shouldn't be there.  Coco's glove is better and lately, the bats are similar.  Ellsbury's OBP is better but if he's gonna keep hitting .250 I want Crisp in there.

i want crisp traded for a good middle relief pitcher. ellsbury's the future, the fact that they've been competing and getting the best out of each other (until lately) has been great and has raised each's value.

[ReadyFor17]

Tito agrees with me, Ellsbury batting 9th tonight.

Pedroia
Youkilis
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell
Drew
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

The lineup just got a heck of a lot deeper and if Ortiz is healthy and Ellsbury can regain his form it's probably the best in the league.

[crownsy]

Tito agrees with me, Ellsbury batting 9th tonight.

Pedroia
Youkilis
Ortiz
Manny
Lowell
Drew
Lowrie
Varitek
Ellsbury

The lineup just got a heck of a lot deeper and if Ortiz is healthy and Ellsbury can regain his form it's probably the best in the league.

it would stay deep too, if only this wasent a fake news story :/

http://callofthegreenmonster.typepad.com/call_of_the_green_monster/2008/07/sox-urge-lugo-to-take-as-long-as-possible-with-injury.html


Sox Urge Lugo to Take as Long as Possible with Injury


The compassion of the Boston Red Sox management has never been more evident than with the recent manner in which they have handled the injury to Julio Lugo’s torn quad. Instead of trying to rush the player back, they have urged him to treat the injury with plenty of tender loving care and to take as much time—if not more—than necessary to insure proper healing.
           “We want to make sure he’s completely healthy before he comes back,” said a concerned Terry Francona.  “We’ll miss him, but I think he should take a long, long, long, time and make sure he’s 100%.”  Larry Lucchino is in complete agreement.  “My research indicates that this injury could keep him out of action for the rest of this season, and the next two years,” he said reflectively.  “Now, coincidentally, that would be when his contract ends, but when do the Red Sox ever think about money?  We want what’s best for the player.  We want him off the field, way off the field…uh…until he’s completely healthy.”
           A deeply moved Lugo said his heart has been touched by the kindness of the Red Sox, though he is a bit confused by it.  “They want Big Papi back as soon as possible, and yet with me, they say I’m so valuable that they want me to take a long time--a reallylong time--to heal,” he said.  “Wow, dude. That's true love right there. I knew I was good, but more valuable than Papi?  I told Francona, I’m so touched, I’ll be back in August.”
           “And I told him, no you won’t,” Francona said adamantly.  “Sit back, relax, take good, loooong, rest.”

[cmburrill]

I understand they want Ellsbury as the future CF, but I just see him as a poor man's Kenny Lofton.  Ellsbury's trade value is still rather high, I'd rather trade Ellsbury in the off-season and get someone of significant value.

  This is  a joke right?Ill save my comments in case they are. Trade the potential ROY, a guy being paid 400,000.

   Look Pedroia is getting on the bag Pedroia avg this month is 378 and obp 424. This is simple... your lo man is hitting 233 and has obp of 267 for the last month...the last 10 games hes been on base 3 times(excluding Sunday)you have to light a fire. Pedroia is playing like a LO hitter and Jacoby like a 9. That's that. Now Jacoby had a good game off  Ponson Id imagine hes still in the 9th spot  Monday vs the Angels.

 

[MBz]

Ellsbury is not a potential ROY.  He may have been when the season started, but he shouldn't even be in the discussion.  He's performed at the same level Clay Buchholz has this year.  Where Pedroia came into your argument, I'm not all that sure, no one is really discussing Pedroia as there is no need to.  My argument is this, I don't see Ellsbury ever being over a legit 270-275 hitter.  If you can trade him and get something significant back, I have zero issue as having Crisp as my center fielder.  Crisp may not be a hitter, but he's proven to be one of the top defensive center fielders in the league.

[Nasty Nas]

well Evan Longoria is the obvious ROY at this point

but you all do realize that this is ellsbury's first full year, right? it's not like he's 35 and his skills are declining. he's still getting used to the MLB. he's had a bad 2 months, it happens. were you all itching to trade/bench pedroia when he started last year batting .185 in april?