Danny wants to rebuild and win but it doesnt work that way

[Jon]

I think there's a few possibilities about what happened with Posey.

1) Ainge didn't think he was the worth the MLE to begin with, and simply low-balled him in years knowing he'd sign elsewhere.  This clears him from public backlash for not bringing back a popular player. 

2) Luxury tax issues.  The C's are already pretty far over the luxury tax.  While ownership may have allowed him to use it this, they might have still limited him to a certain budget each year.  In other words, while Ainge can sign a player to a 5 year MLE deal every year under NBA rules, ownership may not have allowed him to do that.  Thus, Posey could limit what he could do next year and the year after due to ownership policies. 

3) Maybe Ainge is planning something crazy in 2-3 years.  I don't see exactly how that's possible given the state of Pierce and Garnett's deals plus Rondo's extension.  Plus, getting cap room would also be contingent on holding onto Ray Allen, renouncing his rights, then counting on the fact we can sign a free agent, which would be very risky business. 

Anyway, except for maybe option 2, I don't think they're very good reasons to not sign Posey UNLESS he believes the Big Three's window of opportunity is closer to 4-5 years than 2-3 AND he believes that he can land someone at the MLE next year that will make us forget about James Posey. 

[BballTim]

"  Still, my biggest fear is that the C's fall just short next year losing a game like last year's Game 7 against Cleveland.  And then the next year, someone goes down or Ray declines, and that's it. And then we're sitting here 3 years from now wondering what would've happened had we kept James Posey. "

great points. Yeah posey only gets you like 7 or 8 points a game but how many points does he stop also?? he is a 20 + player with the pts he scores and points he doesn't let the other team get.

regret or not , the big three should have seen this coming.

again, i love james, but he is just not this superstar willing to come off the bench, ala manu, you guys are making him out to be.

hes a very good 6th man, and he'll be hard to replace, but not tying up our MLE for 4 years won't be why we don't win 18 if it doesn't happen.

to me, all this talk about how awful our bench is goign to be is so pointless its beyond belief. i read these exact same things last year, including about posey, who when he was signed, was mostly considered by the blog to be a good value signing, but not much more than a defensive stopper once in awhile to spell pierce. I'm sure now everyone will say they knew all along he'd be an outstanding 6th man, but it isn't true.

there's a reason that we were able to secure him late for a one year deal for short money, because at the time people had questions, as silly as they seem now, about his drive and work ethic. there was alot of talk that he had become content after miami's title. Now, looking back, we all know thats ridiculos, but the point is, bench's can't be predicted before they start playing together, and espically not before thier signed, we still have a bunch of spots to fill.

Well, not to be a total jackass, and I don't know if you can go back in the archives far enough, but I was calling for the C's to sign Posey pretty much as soon as the Garnett deal went down.  And it really didn't surprise me how successful he was.

Still, that's beside the point.  By no means am I predicting gloom and doom, I just worry about it.  And I don't think the reasons not to sign him outweigh the reasons to sign him. 

I mean people talk about salary flexibility, but I just don't see it actually playing out.  This whole myth of 2010 having significant cap room is based on the idea that they'd renounce not only Ray Allen, but also Rajon Rondo.  And even if they were to do that, they'd actually have to land a free agent that was good enough not only to replace Allen and Rondo, but actually exceed what they did to make it worthwhile, which is extremely unlikely. 

To me, the C's long term plan should be to build up as much young talent as possible and to limit contracts to not extend beyond KG's.  Then, when the Big Three leave, the C's will hopefully have some room to surround Perk, Rondo, and whoever else emerges with some talent.  Posey at 4 years didn't inhibit that plan.

So while the C's could be fine without Posey, I think they'd have a better shot at winning it with him.  And I don't understand why a team with a limited time frame to win a title messes with it's chances at success when it really doesn't inhibit many long term goals. 

good call then, and i know some people were on the posey train early, thats why i said most.

also, i think were confusing salary cap flexablity. the flexablity im talking about isn't the ablity to sign anyone huge in 2010, we'll still be over cap. the flexablity im talking about is the MLE. if you tie the MLE up for 4 years, and a few bench players don't work out, your toast, because you can't sign anyone for over the minimum. If you keep the MLE on short deals, then you can re-evaluate your bench every year.

I could care less about posey impacting us in some crazy quest to sign dwade in 2010, thats not the flexablity i'm talking about. the flexablity im talking about is when we need some new legs on the bench, and we have the MLE avalable to get it done, instead of tied up in one player for 4 years.

I think you are misunderstanding how the MLE works. You have the MLE available every season, as long as the team is over the salary cap. For example, you can use the MLE to give a 4 year contract this year, use it again next off-season to give two 3 years contracts (splitting it), etc. The only thing to be considered are budgetary restrictions. But if Ainge offered Posey the MLE for 3 years, as has been reported, I don't thin the aforementioned restrictions played a big role.

  The fact that Ainge offered Posey a 3 year deal in no way implies that they don't have budgetary restrictions that would keep them from using it in those years.

[BballTim]

I mean people talk about salary flexibility, but I just don't see it actually playing out.  This whole myth of 2010 having significant cap room is based on the idea that they'd renounce not only Ray Allen, but also Rajon Rondo.  And even if they were to do that, they'd actually have to land a free agent that was good enough not only to replace Allen and Rondo, but actually exceed what they did to make it worthwhile, which is extremely unlikely. 

  Danny Ainge was talking about how signing Posey to a 4 year MLE would limit our flexibility. Don't you think he has a good idea what he's talking about?

I'm sure he does.  However, I also think that Danny at times "spins" news and/or is less than candid.  I think you have to take everything you hear from an NBA front office with a grain of salt.

  Sure you have to take what you hear with a grain of salt. But there are numerous signs that Ainge is dealing with budgetary issues. If Ainge is limited in what he's able to spend (either now or in the next few years) then it's hard to envision circumstances where having Posey on the books for that kind of money WON"T affect flexibility.

[crownsy]

"  Still, my biggest fear is that the C's fall just short next year losing a game like last year's Game 7 against Cleveland.  And then the next year, someone goes down or Ray declines, and that's it. And then we're sitting here 3 years from now wondering what would've happened had we kept James Posey. "

great points. Yeah posey only gets you like 7 or 8 points a game but how many points does he stop also?? he is a 20 + player with the pts he scores and points he doesn't let the other team get.

regret or not , the big three should have seen this coming.

again, i love james, but he is just not this superstar willing to come off the bench, ala manu, you guys are making him out to be.

hes a very good 6th man, and he'll be hard to replace, but not tying up our MLE for 4 years won't be why we don't win 18 if it doesn't happen.

to me, all this talk about how awful our bench is goign to be is so pointless its beyond belief. i read these exact same things last year, including about posey, who when he was signed, was mostly considered by the blog to be a good value signing, but not much more than a defensive stopper once in awhile to spell pierce. I'm sure now everyone will say they knew all along he'd be an outstanding 6th man, but it isn't true.

there's a reason that we were able to secure him late for a one year deal for short money, because at the time people had questions, as silly as they seem now, about his drive and work ethic. there was alot of talk that he had become content after miami's title. Now, looking back, we all know thats ridiculos, but the point is, bench's can't be predicted before they start playing together, and espically not before thier signed, we still have a bunch of spots to fill.

Well, not to be a total jackass, and I don't know if you can go back in the archives far enough, but I was calling for the C's to sign Posey pretty much as soon as the Garnett deal went down.  And it really didn't surprise me how successful he was.

Still, that's beside the point.  By no means am I predicting gloom and doom, I just worry about it.  And I don't think the reasons not to sign him outweigh the reasons to sign him. 

I mean people talk about salary flexibility, but I just don't see it actually playing out.  This whole myth of 2010 having significant cap room is based on the idea that they'd renounce not only Ray Allen, but also Rajon Rondo.  And even if they were to do that, they'd actually have to land a free agent that was good enough not only to replace Allen and Rondo, but actually exceed what they did to make it worthwhile, which is extremely unlikely. 

To me, the C's long term plan should be to build up as much young talent as possible and to limit contracts to not extend beyond KG's.  Then, when the Big Three leave, the C's will hopefully have some room to surround Perk, Rondo, and whoever else emerges with some talent.  Posey at 4 years didn't inhibit that plan.

So while the C's could be fine without Posey, I think they'd have a better shot at winning it with him.  And I don't understand why a team with a limited time frame to win a title messes with it's chances at success when it really doesn't inhibit many long term goals. 

good call then, and i know some people were on the posey train early, thats why i said most.

also, i think were confusing salary cap flexablity. the flexablity im talking about isn't the ablity to sign anyone huge in 2010, we'll still be over cap. the flexablity im talking about is the MLE. if you tie the MLE up for 4 years, and a few bench players don't work out, your toast, because you can't sign anyone for over the minimum. If you keep the MLE on short deals, then you can re-evaluate your bench every year.

I could care less about posey impacting us in some crazy quest to sign dwade in 2010, thats not the flexablity i'm talking about. the flexablity im talking about is when we need some new legs on the bench, and we have the MLE avalable to get it done, instead of tied up in one player for 4 years.

I think you are misunderstanding how the MLE works. You have the MLE available every season, as long as the team is over the salary cap. For example, you can use the MLE to give a 4 year contract this year, use it again next off-season to give two 3 years contracts (splitting it), etc. The only thing to be considered are budgetary restrictions. But if Ainge offered Posey the MLE for 3 years, as has been reported, I don't thin the aforementioned restrictions played a big role.

i stand corrected then, but the point is still valid, with the mid level out, we'd be almost 80 million and well over the luxary tax cap. you think wyc's going to let danny throw it around every year?

[Triboy16]

I just read an article relating to tyronne lue and he was ready to sign with us for 1.8 million but danny wouldn't budge from a 1.2 million dollar offer. So lue instead signed with the bucks for 2.5 million but he was clear he would have signed with the celtics for 1.8 million

Don't get me wrong , lue is not a guy who can demand much in this stage of his career but for a measly 600k (in nba stds) more we could of had a reliable vet pg. And now we will risk it with pruitt instead

Ainge is a great gm but i think his biggest weakness is no doubt signing free agents. Most of the guys last year pretty much fell on our lap cuz of the big three but imagine if we don't have them danny signs guys like scal for multiple years.

I want to ask danny one question right now and that is, what are you waiting for!??! we have a mle and lle use it. Also sign giddens and walker already. They need to start working out etc to prepare for the upcoming season. Danny is either way too patient or still in championship vacation mode. Wake up pal

[crownsy]

I just read an article relating to tyronne lue and he was ready to sign with us for 1.8 million but danny wouldn't budge from a 1.2 million dollar offer. So lue instead signed with the bucks for 2.5 million but he was clear he would have signed with the celtics for 1.8 million

Don't get me wrong , lue is not a guy who can demand much in this stage of his career but for a measly 600k (in nba stds) more we could of had a reliable vet pg. And now we will risk it with pruitt instead

Ainge is a great gm but i think his biggest weakness is no doubt signing free agents. Most of the guys last year pretty much fell on our lap cuz of the big three but imagine if we don't have them danny signs guys like scal for multiple years.

I want to ask danny one question right now and that is, what are you waiting for!??! we have a mle and lle use it. Also sign giddens and walker already. They need to start working out etc to prepare for the upcoming season. Danny is either way too patient or still in championship vacation mode. Wake up pal

we went over this in another thread, that "measley" 600k is actually 3 million to the celtics, were in the luxary tax. odd for such a cheap team don't you think?

and what makes you think we wont get one of the other back up PG's, i hate to break this to you, but lue isn't that good. he's no better than resigining eddie house, which we may yet do. there are also 3-4 more back up PG's with lue's abilitys. i.e being a decent player.

also, your claim that dannys biggest weakness is signing free agents clashes with your claims that he's being cheap with regards to important free agents he's signed in the past getting new deals. apperntly he was good enough with free agents to pick up a championship level bench.

as for giddon, his agent is posey's agent, and considering he's been kind of busy, im sure there was no rush to sign giddons. walker is a second round pick, as roy researched in another thread, they typicaly dont sign till late july.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I just read an article relating to tyronne lue and he was ready to sign with us for 1.8 million but danny wouldn't budge from a 1.2 million dollar offer. So lue instead signed with the bucks for 2.5 million but he was clear he would have signed with the celtics for 1.8 million

Don't get me wrong , lue is not a guy who can demand much in this stage of his career but for a measly 600k (in nba stds) more we could of had a reliable vet pg. And now we will risk it with pruitt instead

Because clearly Danny wont look at other options... it was Lue or nothing, so let's overpay the guy, by quite a few millions to the Celtics.

I want to ask danny one question right now and that is, what are you waiting for!??! we have a mle and lle use it. Also sign giddens and walker already. They need to start working out etc to prepare for the upcoming season. Danny is either way too patient or still in championship vacation mode. Wake up pal

Yep, let's use it on just anyone for the wrong price and build our roster the wrong way. Great idea just to appease your impatience.  Yep, let's sign Giddens and Walker already because they're such bums that can't workout on their own.

[cordobes]

"  Still, my biggest fear is that the C's fall just short next year losing a game like last year's Game 7 against Cleveland.  And then the next year, someone goes down or Ray declines, and that's it. And then we're sitting here 3 years from now wondering what would've happened had we kept James Posey. "

great points. Yeah posey only gets you like 7 or 8 points a game but how many points does he stop also?? he is a 20 + player with the pts he scores and points he doesn't let the other team get.

regret or not , the big three should have seen this coming.

again, i love james, but he is just not this superstar willing to come off the bench, ala manu, you guys are making him out to be.

hes a very good 6th man, and he'll be hard to replace, but not tying up our MLE for 4 years won't be why we don't win 18 if it doesn't happen.

to me, all this talk about how awful our bench is goign to be is so pointless its beyond belief. i read these exact same things last year, including about posey, who when he was signed, was mostly considered by the blog to be a good value signing, but not much more than a defensive stopper once in awhile to spell pierce. I'm sure now everyone will say they knew all along he'd be an outstanding 6th man, but it isn't true.

there's a reason that we were able to secure him late for a one year deal for short money, because at the time people had questions, as silly as they seem now, about his drive and work ethic. there was alot of talk that he had become content after miami's title. Now, looking back, we all know thats ridiculos, but the point is, bench's can't be predicted before they start playing together, and espically not before thier signed, we still have a bunch of spots to fill.

Well, not to be a total jackass, and I don't know if you can go back in the archives far enough, but I was calling for the C's to sign Posey pretty much as soon as the Garnett deal went down.  And it really didn't surprise me how successful he was.

Still, that's beside the point.  By no means am I predicting gloom and doom, I just worry about it.  And I don't think the reasons not to sign him outweigh the reasons to sign him. 

I mean people talk about salary flexibility, but I just don't see it actually playing out.  This whole myth of 2010 having significant cap room is based on the idea that they'd renounce not only Ray Allen, but also Rajon Rondo.  And even if they were to do that, they'd actually have to land a free agent that was good enough not only to replace Allen and Rondo, but actually exceed what they did to make it worthwhile, which is extremely unlikely. 

To me, the C's long term plan should be to build up as much young talent as possible and to limit contracts to not extend beyond KG's.  Then, when the Big Three leave, the C's will hopefully have some room to surround Perk, Rondo, and whoever else emerges with some talent.  Posey at 4 years didn't inhibit that plan.

So while the C's could be fine without Posey, I think they'd have a better shot at winning it with him.  And I don't understand why a team with a limited time frame to win a title messes with it's chances at success when it really doesn't inhibit many long term goals. 

good call then, and i know some people were on the posey train early, thats why i said most.

also, i think were confusing salary cap flexablity. the flexablity im talking about isn't the ablity to sign anyone huge in 2010, we'll still be over cap. the flexablity im talking about is the MLE. if you tie the MLE up for 4 years, and a few bench players don't work out, your toast, because you can't sign anyone for over the minimum. If you keep the MLE on short deals, then you can re-evaluate your bench every year.

I could care less about posey impacting us in some crazy quest to sign dwade in 2010, thats not the flexablity i'm talking about. the flexablity im talking about is when we need some new legs on the bench, and we have the MLE avalable to get it done, instead of tied up in one player for 4 years.

I think you are misunderstanding how the MLE works. You have the MLE available every season, as long as the team is over the salary cap. For example, you can use the MLE to give a 4 year contract this year, use it again next off-season to give two 3 years contracts (splitting it), etc. The only thing to be considered are budgetary restrictions. But if Ainge offered Posey the MLE for 3 years, as has been reported, I don't thin the aforementioned restrictions played a big role.

i stand corrected then, but the point is still valid, with the mid level out, we'd be almost 80 million and well over the luxary tax cap. you think wyc's going to let danny throw it around every year?

Nope, I don't think that. In fact, I made that point before the end of the season. But apparently, he is authorized to pay the MLE for the next 3 years (be it by giving it to a/some player(s) for the 3 years this off-season, or  by giving sucessive 1 year contracts, etc). So, the reason he didn't keep Posey was not because he was worried about how he'd fill our roster until 2011, as you were stating.

[Jon]

Well, I guess one thing we can hope on is that as the money dries up for other teams, players will get desperate and we'll be able to ink a player or two for bargain prices.  There isn't a heck of a lot out there, but there are still some interesting possibilities. 

[Triboy16]

How is it 3 million???

so what you want to do sign nobody then?? who is left in the table?? ok lets just have this lineup with full of young bench and see where we get. Man they make close to a million in one big playoff game.

I just read an article relating to tyronne lue and he was ready to sign with us for 1.8 million but danny wouldn't budge from a 1.2 million dollar offer. So lue instead signed with the bucks for 2.5 million but he was clear he would have signed with the celtics for 1.8 million

Don't get me wrong , lue is not a guy who can demand much in this stage of his career but for a measly 600k (in nba stds) more we could of had a reliable vet pg. And now we will risk it with pruitt instead

Ainge is a great gm but i think his biggest weakness is no doubt signing free agents. Most of the guys last year pretty much fell on our lap cuz of the big three but imagine if we don't have them danny signs guys like scal for multiple years.

I want to ask danny one question right now and that is, what are you waiting for!??! we have a mle and lle use it. Also sign giddens and walker already. They need to start working out etc to prepare for the upcoming season. Danny is either way too patient or still in championship vacation mode. Wake up pal

we went over this in another thread, that "measley" 600k is actually 3 million to the celtics, were in the luxary tax. odd for such a cheap team don't you think?

and what makes you think we wont get one of the other back up PG's, i hate to break this to you, but lue isn't that good. he's no better than resigining eddie house, which we may yet do. there are also 3-4 more back up PG's with lue's abilitys. i.e being a decent player.

also, your claim that dannys biggest weakness is signing free agents clashes with your claims that he's being cheap with regards to important free agents he's signed in the past getting new deals. apperntly he was good enough with free agents to pick up a championship level bench.

as for giddon, his agent is posey's agent, and considering he's been kind of busy, im sure there was no rush to sign giddons. walker is a second round pick, as roy researched in another thread, they typicaly dont sign till late july.

[BudweiserCeltic]

How is it 3 million???

so what you want to do sign nobody then?? who is left in the table?? ok lets just have this lineup with full of young bench and see where we get. Man they make close to a million in one big playoff game.

What they offered Lue was a vet min. contract... the league pays half of it. By going outside the vet. min., then you need to pay the full salary + the luxury tax.

Also, calm down a bit because you're not making any sense. "so what you want to do sign nobody then??" No one has suggested nor insinuated that.

[timpiker]

You know its what, July 18?  and we won the title what 3-4 weeks ago? And in the last year Danny Ainge has made this team a champion from a 24 win team with the 5th pick in the draft.

What is it with you people that keep Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.ing about Danny not doing something right?  Sign Posey for $25M?  Are you kidding me?

Sign Tyronne Lue for $5M   - are you kidding me?

Give Gomes the MLE?  In another thread someone said to get Walker signed to a $10M contract?  The guys hasn't even put his shoes on yet.

If I have learned ANYTHING in the last year - TRUST DANNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have awful short memories.  Bash Danny Ainge?  Call the ownership cheap?  Geez.  This is getting old fast.  I can't even spend a month enjoying the FIRST NBA CHAMPIONSHIP IN 22 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  without half of the C's "fans" complaining.............

[bbc3341]

You know its what, July 18?  and we won the title what 3-4 weeks ago? And in the last year Danny Ainge has made this team a champion from a 24 win team with the 5th pick in the draft.

What is it with you people that keep ****ing about Danny not doing something right?  Sign Posey for $25M?  Are you kidding me?

Sign Tyronne Lue for $5M   - are you kidding me?

Give Gomes the MLE?  In another thread someone said to get Walker signed to a $10M contract?  The guys hasn't even put his shoes on yet.

If I have learned ANYTHING in the last year - TRUST DANNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have awful short memories.  Bash Danny Ainge?  Call the ownership cheap?  Geez.  This is getting old fast.  I can't even spend a month enjoying the FIRST NBA CHAMPIONSHIP IN 22 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  without half of the C's "fans" complaining.............

TP - totally agree

[Jon]

You know its what, July 18?  and we won the title what 3-4 weeks ago? And in the last year Danny Ainge has made this team a champion from a 24 win team with the 5th pick in the draft.

What is it with you people that keep ****ing about Danny not doing something right?  Sign Posey for $25M?  Are you kidding me?

Sign Tyronne Lue for $5M   - are you kidding me?

Give Gomes the MLE?  In another thread someone said to get Walker signed to a $10M contract?  The guys hasn't even put his shoes on yet.

If I have learned ANYTHING in the last year - TRUST DANNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have awful short memories.  Bash Danny Ainge?  Call the ownership cheap?  Geez.  This is getting old fast.  I can't even spend a month enjoying the FIRST NBA CHAMPIONSHIP IN 22 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  without half of the C's "fans" complaining.............

I'm still in the trust Danny boat; it's still very early.  Players should become more readily available as money dries up.  However, I hope Danny hasn't let the good fortune of last off-season taint his realism.  While I give Danny a lot of credit for last year, there was also a ton of luck and good fortune involved.  Not every year do two different clubs offer up their best players to the same team, regardless of what a team has to offer. 

[BballTim]

You know its what, July 18?  and we won the title what 3-4 weeks ago? And in the last year Danny Ainge has made this team a champion from a 24 win team with the 5th pick in the draft.

What is it with you people that keep ****ing about Danny not doing something right?  Sign Posey for $25M?  Are you kidding me?

Sign Tyronne Lue for $5M   - are you kidding me?

Give Gomes the MLE?  In another thread someone said to get Walker signed to a $10M contract?  The guys hasn't even put his shoes on yet.

If I have learned ANYTHING in the last year - TRUST DANNY !!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys have awful short memories.  Bash Danny Ainge?  Call the ownership cheap?  Geez.  This is getting old fast.  I can't even spend a month enjoying the FIRST NBA CHAMPIONSHIP IN 22 YEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  without half of the C's "fans" complaining.............

I'm still in the trust Danny boat; it's still very early.  Players should become more readily available as money dries up.  However, I hope Danny hasn't let the good fortune of last off-season taint his realism.  While I give Danny a lot of credit for last year, there was also a ton of luck and good fortune involved.  Not every year do two different clubs offer up their best players to the same team, regardless of what a team has to offer. 

  They didn't offer KG to the Celtics, they offered him to the other 29 teams in the league. We just made the best offer.