"We still have J.R. Giddens and Bill Walker's situation."

[bostonfan23]

I have high hopes for Giddens. I'm also big on Walker, but think he may have to wait a year (Europe?) to contribute.

If TA is indeed let go, it will be because the team thinks Giddens can step right into his role.

[Triboy16]

taking longer than i thought if you ask me. The 30th pick in 2008 got approx 957,120 for 2 years.

Giddens deserves pretty much nothing more or nothing less. Bill walker a 2nd rounder is eligible for 400 plus k and 700 k second year deal

so not sure why its taking this long to sign these guys and give everyone a peace of mind. Does it matter if danny will sign another free agent?? he needs to sign at least giddesn to the numbers above anywyas, plus it would be dumb to let go bill walker now.

Unless danny wants both players to play somewhere else for 1 year, then he doesn't have to pay them but has their rights. Can someone confirm how the rights part work if a player goes overseas say for 1 year?? For example can the celts tell giddens to go to europe for one year and then after sign him to a 2 year deal still ??

[Vermont Green]

I think either player could elect to play overseas.  Several other first and second round picks from other teams have done this and then joined the NBA with the team that drafted them down the road.  I doubt that this is Danny's plan though.  I suspect he plans to either trade them now for a veteran or will sign them if nothing else gets done.  I don't know the rule first hand but there was a post by someone that explained that while these guys are not signed, it is easier to trade them and offers the team a little more flexibility to adjust the salary to match the needs of a trade.

I am not sure how much interest there would be from other teams as 29 teams had a chance to pick either of these in the first round but didn't.  So I would think the value in the eyes of other teams is that of very low second round picks.  You can't get all that much for a couple of second round picks even good second round picks.  If we had a nice expiring contract to go with it then maybe we could work somehthing.

Danny may well have something in mind but for the life of me, I can't figure out what it might be.

[WeMadeIt17]

I am not sure what Danny is thinking but I can't be patient anymore something needs to happen.. Last Off-season was to fun this one is getting more boring by the second please SIGN someone or TRADE for someone!

[ThreadCrasher]

Several other first and second round picks from other teams have done this and then joined the NBA with the team that drafted them down the road.  I doubt that this is Danny's plan though. 

Examples please.

[Vermont Green]

Orlando picked a guy a few years back at #11 Fran Vazquez but he decided to stay in Spain.  He was the first relatively big name (and such a high draft pick) to do it lately.  Last year, San Antonio drafted Tiago Splitter at #28.  He stayed in Brazil initially with a 2 year contract (making 8x the NBA rookie scale) and has since extended through 2012 I understand.

Toni Kukoc is the first that I can remember.  He was drafted by the Bulls in 1990 but didn't sign with them until 1993.

This is nothing new or unusual.

[Roy Hobbs]

Orlando picked a guy a few years back at #11 Fran Vazquez but he decided to stay in Spain.  He was the first relatively big name (and such a high draft pick) to do it lately.  Last year, San Antonio drafted Tiago Splitter at #28.  He stayed in Brazil initially with a 2 year contract (making 8x the NBA rookie scale) and has since extended through 2012 I understand.

Toni Kukoc is the first that I can remember.  He was drafted by the Bulls in 1990 but didn't sign with them until 1993.

This is nothing new or unusual.

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.

[BballTim]

Orlando picked a guy a few years back at #11 Fran Vazquez but he decided to stay in Spain.  He was the first relatively big name (and such a high draft pick) to do it lately.  Last year, San Antonio drafted Tiago Splitter at #28.  He stayed in Brazil initially with a 2 year contract (making 8x the NBA rookie scale) and has since extended through 2012 I understand.

Toni Kukoc is the first that I can remember.  He was drafted by the Bulls in 1990 but didn't sign with them until 1993.

This is nothing new or unusual.

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.

  Danny Ferry, but a different situation.

[Vermont Green]

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.

Good point, I thought the original question was about "how it would work" contractually regarding retainage of rights. I can't think of any americans who were drafted but went to Europe but the option exists for them same as with the foriegn players although many of the foriegn players already have contracts which certainly makes it easier for them to stay abroad.  With the kind of money that is being thrown around by European teams coupled with the fact that rookies are younger and less developed these days, I guess the idea of using Europe or even South America as a lucrative (for the player) player development league may be something we start to see.  I think in the past, teams were willing to wait for these players becasue they had to (vs. because they wanted to for development reasons).  Now it seems like the idea of keeping a player in Europe to develop is actually the primary objective.  This is definitely the case with Semih Erden and the Celtics.  They don't want him now.  They have put their claim on him and are happy to wait to see how he develops.  This all could be for naught if Erden can make significantly more money in Europe than the rookie scale in the NBA (ala Splitter) and never comes over.  It is certainly a risk the Celtics are taking but a reasonalbe risk.

The bottom line for the Celtics and Giddens and Walker is that I do not think the intent is to send these guys to Europe but perhaps is a last resort of sorts.  Danny is either going to try to use them as chips in a trade for someone better or will sign them and let Doc get what he can out of them in between trips to the NBDL.

I know we are not under any obligation to give a gaurranteed contract to a second round pick so we can just "pass" on Walker if we want but what obligation do we have Giddens if he wants to play in the NBA but we would prefer he go to Europe?

[veilside23]

i am impatient as well i wonder when will we sign giddens... and walker..

[BillfromBoston]

Boston knew that Bill Walker was a player that needed a lot of development before he'd be ready to contribute...they're not going to waive his rights after paying 5-6 hundred k to get him...they would have just passed...

Both these guys will be signed, but there is no pressure for them to do so, they own their exclusive rights...Boston will wait to make sure nothing significant shakes free in the market and then will sign them once all possible options have been exhausted..

Its that simple...

[Fan from VT]

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.

Good point, I thought the original question was about "how it would work" contractually regarding retainage of rights. I can't think of any americans who were drafted but went to Europe but the option exists for them same as with the foriegn players although many of the foriegn players already have contracts which certainly makes it easier for them to stay abroad.  With the kind of money that is being thrown around by European teams coupled with the fact that rookies are younger and less developed these days, I guess the idea of using Europe or even South America as a lucrative (for the player) player development league may be something we start to see.  I think in the past, teams were willing to wait for these players becasue they had to (vs. because they wanted to for development reasons).  Now it seems like the idea of keeping a player in Europe to develop is actually the primary objective.  This is definitely the case with Semih Erden and the Celtics.  They don't want him now.  They have put their claim on him and are happy to wait to see how he develops.  This all could be for naught if Erden can make significantly more money in Europe than the rookie scale in the NBA (ala Splitter) and never comes over.  It is certainly a risk the Celtics are taking but a reasonalbe risk.

The bottom line for the Celtics and Giddens and Walker is that I do not think the intent is to send these guys to Europe but perhaps is a last resort of sorts.  Danny is either going to try to use them as chips in a trade for someone better or will sign them and let Doc get what he can out of them in between trips to the NBDL.

I know we are not under any obligation to give a gaurranteed contract to a second round pick so we can just "pass" on Walker if we want but what obligation do we have Giddens if he wants to play in the NBA but we would prefer he go to Europe?

I believe that if Giddens really wants to play NBA and never set foot in Europe, he could not sign a contract, sit out the entire season, and, as long as he plays no pro ball anywhere, he'd re-enter the draft next season. As long as he's playing pro ball, we maintain his rights until he wants to play in the NBA.

[2short]

[/quote]

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.
[/quote]
I remember Mass's own Vinny Delnegro playing in Italy early on but can't remember if he was drafted by sacramento and chose Italy?

[cordobes]

Outside of Brian Shaw, are there any examples of American players who decided to play abroad rather than play for the team that drafted them?  It makes sense that a number of international players would just decide to stay abroad (where they are oftentimes making significantly more money) but I can't think of an American first-rounder other than Shaw that decided to play internationally out of choice.
[/quote]
I remember Mass's own Vinny Delnegro playing in Italy early on but can't remember if he was drafted by sacramento and chose Italy?
[/quote]

Del Negro played in Italy after playing a couple of years in the NBA.

The most famous case is Danny Ferry, who was the second draft pick overall and decided to play in Italy instead of joining the team which drafted him (Hornets?).

[hwangjini_1]

Boston knew that Bill Walker was a player that needed a lot of development before he'd be ready to contribute...they're not going to waive his rights after paying 5-6 hundred k to get him...they would have just passed...

Both these guys will be signed, but there is no pressure for them to do so, they own their exclusive rights...Boston will wait to make sure nothing significant shakes free in the market and then will sign them once all possible options have been exhausted..

Its that simple...

amen.

and the celtics will have a couple of good athletes who have the potential to become pretty good nba players. both are a risk, but the cost is low for each.