The only Ray Allen trade that makes us win another title in 09'

[action781]

I love Tmac and would love to have him but Ray Allen is a much better player than him. Tmac is more injury prone as well.

Ray allen is a much better player than Tmac?  Post this question in a true/false poll on espn.com or nba.com and you will get a resounding 95-99% false.  Not because of misconceptions or his name, but because it is. 

About tmac being more injury prone?  Since 2001-02, Ray allen has played 485 regular season games.  Tmac has played 480.  Hmmm....

 People seem to have posted 2 complaints about t-mac: his bad back and not being able to advance in the playoffs.  Werent these 2 gripes that people had about Ray before he came here?

No, the gripes about TMac extend well beyond injuries and choking. TMac is an isolation-scoring machine. He does that very well. But his style of play kills ball movement and court chemistry.

T-mac plays like that because he has to.  He has nobody else on his team that he CAN defer to; his second scoring option in the playoffs was Rafer Alston who even wasn't around the whole series!  Pierce had to play like that last season also and sometimes in seasons prior as well.  When players with a desire to win it all are surrounded by other superstars, they can put their ego aside and can change their game.  We saw it happen this year.  There's no way you can know T-Mac well enough to say that there's no way he could do that.

[Jon]

I love Tmac and would love to have him but Ray Allen is a much better player than him. Tmac is more injury prone as well.

Ray allen is a much better player than Tmac?  Post this question in a true/false poll on espn.com or nba.com and you will get a resounding 95-99% false.  Not because of misconceptions or his name, but because it is. 

About tmac being more injury prone?  Since 2001-02, Ray allen has played 485 regular season games.  Tmac has played 480.  Hmmm....

People seem to have posted 2 complaints about t-mac: his bad back and not being able to advance in the playoffs.  Werent these 2 gripes that people had about Ray before he came here?

No, the gripes about TMac extend well beyond injuries and choking. TMac is an isolation-scoring machine. He does that very well. But his style of play kills ball movement and court chemistry.

T-mac plays like that because he has to.  He has nobody else on his team that he CAN defer to; his second scoring option in the playoffs was Rafer Alston who even wasn't around the whole series!  Pierce had to play like that last season also and sometimes in seasons prior as well.  When players with a desire to win it all are surrounded by other superstars, they can put their ego aside and can change their game.  We saw it happen this year.  There's no way you can know T-Mac well enough to say that there's no way he could do that.

Post the question on an ESPN board 9 months ago whether the Celtics would win the title and 90% would have said no.  Post whether Pierce would be Finals MVP and about 99% would have said false.  So that's hardly a barometer for accuracy. 

[Moranis]

There are plenty of Ray Allen trades that could lead to titles that are actually realistic.

for the Matrix

for Josh Smith (if it is apparent he is going to sign a contract the Hawks don't want to match)

for Emeka Okafor (see Josh Smith)

for Luol Deng (see Josh Smith)

and many more that could occur.

The only realistic one is the Matrix I guess cause none of the others would work. Ray Allen for  Josh Smith would make no sense for the Hawks because they are in a youth movement & Ray is too old for that. Plus he plays the same position as Joe Johnson & Joe doesn't like playing the 3 at all.

Okafor wouldn't work because he would be relagaded to the bench being that he is really a PF in this league & K.G. has that locked down. And Perk is a natural better Center being that he would be 7ft. easy if he had a neck. Okafor is small for Center I believe & Ray would duplicate Jason Richardson's position.

Loul Deng is a good fit for us but a terrible fit for the Bulls who already have a undersized 2 in Gordon, Hinrich who they have to play at 2 in the wake of drafting Derek Rose. They still have  Larry Hughes & Thabo Sefelosha is someone they want to get big minutes from soon. So that wont work either.

Marion is the only fit as far as a realistic trade offer!

Atlanta traded for Mike Bibby last year, I wouldn't exactly call them looking to go in the youth movement.  They don't want long term big contracts, which is what Smith is going to get.  I know they want to keep him but the closer his contract is to max the less likely they become to match.  I think Johnson would play the 3 if it meant Ray Allen was at the 2 (they could also play together when Bibby is resting as both are decent ball handlers).

Okafor is the same height as Perkins.  Perk has a bit bigger frame, but Okafor could and would start at center for this team with Perk coming in to back up both Okafor and KG.  Richardson and Allen are a bit of duplication, but they would have different roles and could certainly play together for a fair amount of the game.  

Gordon isn't going to be re-signed by the Bulls unless it is a very low deal and the Bulls will move Hinrich if the right trade offer comes around.  They have enough flexibility there.  I think ultimately they will match any offer for Deng, but maybe they will look to another direction and Ray Allen is actually a good fit for them.  

[ChrisjGotti]

The only Ray Allen trade that should be made like right now this instant is for Tracy McGrady. They would most likely want Big Baby & Bill Walker thrown in but im fine with that. Plus Tracy is a lights-out defender when he has flexibilty to not have to be the go to guy every trip down the court. He doesnt give his all sometimes on D  because he has to save energy for offense. But I hope Danny is thinking of this move silently while Ray does have good trade value coming off a title & while Houston feels they cant win a title with Mac let alone get out of the first round. Mac passes better, scores better, drives better, defends better & can take over a game better than Ray Allen with 3 inches of more height giving options to play 3 positions SG,SF, even point when needed. Plus he can knock it down from 3 himself with the best of them.

Boston Trades:
Ray Allen
Glen Davis
Bill Walker
2009 2nd rounder to Houston

Boston Receives:
Tracy McGrady from Houston

i wouldnt do this trade at all. because ray allen is a shooter and the celtics need that from him. i mean paul pierce and KG. they are there for 2 to take it in and post up. i would keep this line up. because they gone so far and i dont want them to lose it. just keep posey, house and big baby. we have the best defense of coach and dont wanna lose him either. tracy is fragile, the c's dont need him at all.

[Hoops]

 People seem to have posted 2 complaints about t-mac: his bad back and not being able to advance in the playoffs.  Werent these 2 gripes that people had about Ray before he came here?

No, the gripes about TMac extend well beyond injuries and choking. TMac is an isolation-scoring machine. He does that very well. But his style of play kills ball movement and court chemistry.

T-mac plays like that because he has to.  He has nobody else on his team that he CAN defer to; his second scoring option in the playoffs was Rafer Alston who even wasn't around the whole series!  Pierce had to play like that last season also and sometimes in seasons prior as well.  When players with a desire to win it all are surrounded by other superstars, they can put their ego aside and can change their game.  We saw it happen this year.  There's no way you can know T-Mac well enough to say that there's no way he could do that.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. TMac has been playing with Yao freaking Ming and a team of veterans for the last several years. Pierce was playing with a team full of rookies (and near rookies) last year. Big difference. Pierce had also shown that he could play the team game previously during his career (e.g., during the ECF run with Antoine and co.). There has not been one team or one time in McGrady's career when he has demonstrated any ability to supersede his ball dominator style of play. Dude was made to play in the NBA all-star game with all the macho showboating stuff.

I've come close to saying this before, but I'll say it now on the record: TMac will never win an NBA title (as a starter). Nor will Stevie Franchise, Vince Carter or Starbury (remember, if Starbury joins the C's, he'd be a backup). There - I said it. And you can hold me to it.

[buckets]

what causes this illogical attraction to gutless, frail, hot dog type players?

i, for one, would rather have the celtics win number 18, 19, 20, and so forth and go through a huge drought of highlight-quality dunks than trade for mcgrady, carter, marbury, etc. and be on the sports center highlight reel every night.

[Kwhit10]

I'd say a reasonable player to trade for would be Michael Redd.  But I'm not even for trading Ray.

[action781]

 People seem to have posted 2 complaints about t-mac: his bad back and not being able to advance in the playoffs.  Werent these 2 gripes that people had about Ray before he came here?

No, the gripes about TMac extend well beyond injuries and choking. TMac is an isolation-scoring machine. He does that very well. But his style of play kills ball movement and court chemistry.

T-mac plays like that because he has to.  He has nobody else on his team that he CAN defer to; his second scoring option in the playoffs was Rafer Alston who even wasn't around the whole series!  Pierce had to play like that last season also and sometimes in seasons prior as well.  When players with a desire to win it all are surrounded by other superstars, they can put their ego aside and can change their game.  We saw it happen this year.  There's no way you can know T-Mac well enough to say that there's no way he could do that.

Sorry, but that's ridiculous. TMac has been playing with Yao freaking Ming and a team of veterans for the last several years. Pierce was playing with a team full of rookies (and near rookies) last year. Big difference. Pierce had also shown that he could play the team game previously during his career (e.g., during the ECF run with Antoine and co.). There has not been one team or one time in McGrady's career when he has demonstrated any ability to supersede his ball dominator style of play. Dude was made to play in the NBA all-star game with all the macho showboating stuff.

I've come close to saying this before, but I'll say it now on the record: TMac will never win an NBA title (as a starter). Nor will Stevie Franchise, Vince Carter or Starbury (remember, if Starbury joins the C's, he'd be a backup). There - I said it. And you can hold me to it.

Ridiculous huh?  Yao and a team of veterans?  Many of you speak of T-mac's health, but Yao hasnt played 60+ games in 3 straight seasons!  So the 25+ games per season that T-mac doesn't have Yao to defer to, who does he have?  Lets see, in the '08 playoffs the starters were Rafer Alston, Shane Battier, Luis Scola, and Dikembe Mutumbo.  So 2 veterans and 0 great offensive options.  The key reserves were Chuck Hayes, Bobby Jackson, and Luther Head I believe.  Put Pierce, Allen, or Garnett on teams like that and nobody will believe they can ever win a title either.  In Orlando, T-mac's best second option in the 75 games per season Grant Hill missed was Drew Gooden. 

I wouldn't put T-Mac in that category with VC, francis, and starbury.  I say if he replaced Ray in our lineup, we would still win a title.  If you disagree, then I'll agree to disagree, because I don't think anything would change my mind about that statement.

[jdub1660]

I'm going to go flip flop on this one. First off I will blow the trade out of the water b/c Allen was great for us when we needed him. Why trade someone that did their job to perfection? On one side I could see McGrady coming in and basically dying after 10 or 20 games with a bad back, bad ankle, shoulder strain or w/e else he could make up. OR maybe alot of his injuries(or half) are just excuses not to play. Alot of stars on crappy teams are accused of this(Conveniently getting hurt when the team has no chance of winning, kinda like Pierce the year before the Big 3, when we wanted to lose to tank and get a better draft pick, remember the game against the Bucks..too funny)So maybe McGrady could come in and be perfectly healthy most of the year and be awesome...look at or big 3 for instance. Ray allen missed some days with his ankle,KG a week or 2 with his Abs, and Pierce missed part of a quarter with his knee...besides that, we had them all year. No injuries, just allstars and now a championship. Awesome. But i'll stick to my guns and say NO to trading allen. Mcgrady is damaged goods unfortunately.

[BASS_THUMPER]

I would only do this deal if we could also trade Garnett for Yao Ming...

Garnett & Allen for McGrady & Yao would be interesting to say the least & extend our window by 4 years at least. Danny would do that I believe but Houston say delete our numbers from your phone danny! This friendship is over. lol

we woulda been in trouble..

[TheTruthFot18]

I would only do this deal if we could also trade Garnett for Yao Ming...

Garnett & Allen for McGrady & Yao would be interesting to say the least & extend our window by 4 years at least. Danny would do that I believe but Houston say delete our numbers from your phone danny! This friendship is over. lol

we woulda been in trouble..

It was funny at the ray for TMac part but once Yao was included I almost died. Thanks for bringing this up again.

[Edgar]

I would only do this deal if we could also trade Garnett for Yao Ming...

Garnett & Allen for McGrady & Yao would be interesting to say the least & extend our window by 4 years at least. Danny would do that I believe but Houston say delete our numbers from your phone danny! This friendship is over. lol

we woulda been in trouble..

It was funny at the ray for TMac part but once Yao was included I almost died. Thanks for bringing this up again.

lol

At least TMac is still an NBA reliable starter
and from time to time show his goods

But Yao part was amazing
lets open the windowwww

[OsirusCeltics]

Are you kidding me? Houston would laugh for 4 straight months if we proposed this trade to them. Bad back or no bad back.

It's an unrealistic trade, and you're right that Houston would turn it down.  However, I think Boston would, too.  McGrady averaged 21.6 ppg on 41.9% shooting last season, and shot 29.2% from 3PT.  He had his lowest rebounding average since his rookie season, and missed 16 games due to injury.  He's not the superstar many assume he is anymore. 

I'd rather have Ray.

What!!!!!!
T-Mac is a loser and a injury prone. He can't get pass the first round of the playoffs and you want to trade a healthy Ray Allen that took great great care of his body and is able to be at the peak of his carer for another year or two(at least).
A straight up trade wouldn't come as an option let alone the one where we give them Baby, Walker and a pick.
Have some respect for Walter Ray Allen please

I love how many of us on this blog has gotten the warm & fuzzy feeling for Ray because he played well in the Finals. But that same Ray is the sole reason why we almost didn't make it there! If Pierce doesn't explode in game 7 against Cleveland, you guys would be threatening Ainge to trade him for Delonte & Sczerbiak because those two seriously outplayed him the entire series. Plus Ray looked absolutely pathethic scoring in single digits & those single digits were not even FG's. They were free-throws from illegal defenses and technicals to be real! And Houston would not laugh at this trade at all because they understand T-Mac issues and might want a proven healthy superstar in Allen. Along with two very,very promising young studs with unlimited potential. Thanks for your contributions Ray & I love you, but its a business decison that I feel keeps us in the big show next year!

Let T-Mac be the 3rd option to Paul and KG with leftover points at the 3 point line, and see how he performs

[BballTim]

  How do people find these threads from years ago? Yikes.

[Celtic#9]

Yao and T Mac... Thank God that never happened