Bad Ref officiating...the rules should be altered.

[jdub1660]

Was is just me or were there some REALLY bad calls made during the playoffs this year. Obviously I only remember ones that happened in the Boston series, but still. They bother me that the Celts had to play through all that mess. In game 6 Ray Allen drive in for a layup, windmillsit, gets poked in the eyes by Odom, still makes the shot, but the refs chose not to call it..? I forget the game, but in the Boston-Detroit series, at one point Rip Hamilton is literally hugging onto KG's arm, KG pulls his arm out and knocks Rips hands away. They call an offensive foul ...wow...I'm surprised they called the foul when Radmanovic ran into Pierce after he pump faked the 3 then banked it in. On the previous 2 shots he had just like that they called him for an offensive foul once on Fisher, and traveling on the other(which he did actually shuffle his feet on those two, but no fouls by him)   Either way the rules need to checked out on ref calls. I know in football a coach can sacrfice a timeout to challenge a call. If the call was bad, then they keep the timeout. If the call was correct, then a time out is wasted. The NBA really should consider something like this b/c in the games, they seem to only watch replays on Flagrant fouls and Buzzer beaters. But for us watching at home we get to see replays on just about every important play from crazy shots to awful ref calls.

[Jirimania]

Obviously there are some special circumstances (See: Donaghy, Tim)

But more often than not, the Refs are like the wind and the rain, there is nothing you can do about them.

They are such a large part of the game, any sort of challenge rule would slow the game. The refs are responsible for so much that they will make mistakes, it happens, human error. Yea some calls are bad, but rarely is it one call that decides, usually it is the other 47 minutes of basketball.

So yes, it is frustrating, but I think too much oversight could be a bad thing.

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't want instant replay in basketball, except in the limited circumstances you see now.  I would hate to see the game get slowed down even more than it is now; there's really no need for three hour NBA games.  Plus, some games are officiated more tightly than others; I don't think it's fair to have a game where the officials are "letting them play", and then have a coach challenge a ticky-tack play at the end of the game at a crucial moment.

I think appointing an independent overseer of the officials is a good idea, and the league did that this off-season.  Referees should be allowed to be fined and/or suspended for especially egregious calls.  The league should also monitor specific officials over time.  Other than that, though, I don't think there's a lot that can be done.

[Brendan]

I don't want instant replay in basketball, except in the limited circumstances you see now.  I would hate to see the game get slowed down even more than it is now; there's really no need for three hour NBA games.  Plus, some games are officiated more tightly than others; I don't think it's fair to have a game where the officials are "letting them play", and then have a coach challenge a ticky-tack play at the end of the game at a crucial moment.

I think appointing an independent overseer of the officials is a good idea, and the league did that this off-season.  Referees should be allowed to be fined and/or suspended for especially egregious calls.  The league should also monitor specific officials over time.  Other than that, though, I don't think there's a lot that can be done.

If they want the game officiated consistently and correctly, they need to be willing to punish bad officials, and incentivize that behavior. Before that is done we'll always be subject to the personality of the ref.

[EJPLAYA]

99% of the refs out there do a very good job. There are a few who should be sent packing. Especially the ones who love the "limelight" and want to be seen. There are reviews in place for these refs and penalties if they make too many incorrect calls. That's about the best that can be done. They are human and trying to catch things at a blazing speed. Anyone that has ever reffed before knows how tough this is.

When the players on the floor commit fewer errors than the refs do then we have real reason to complain. No one can be perfect. Overall they do it well.

[Brendan]

99% of the refs out there do a very good job. There are a few who should be sent packing. Especially the ones who love the "limelight" and want to be seen. There are reviews in place for these refs and penalties if they make too many incorrect calls. That's about the best that can be done. They are human and trying to catch things at a blazing speed. Anyone that has ever reffed before knows how tough this is.

When the players on the floor commit fewer errors than the refs do then we have real reason to complain. No one can be perfect. Overall they do it well.

The problem is many who should be sent packing - are - but it's to key playoff games.

[oldmanspeaks]

You have to separate out the two problems. Referees mistakes is an issue but those happen in all sports. The bigger problem is that the referees have to call the games the way the league wants. As Jeff Gundy said, if you paid attention to the rules, there would be traveling on almost every trip downcourt. I would add "3 seconds, pushing off, holding, using the off hand, etc, etc." The real problem is that if you aren't going to use the rule book what is and what is not an infraction will always be in question. I was playing basketball before any of the existing NBA players were born and yet there are games where I have no idea what a foul or traveling is. I would have called a zillion offensive fouls on Shaq and M. Jordan for instance as I understand the rule book. Until the NBA decides what the "real rules" are, you can't expect the referees to call a consistent game.

[nickagneta]

What an absolute crock of a PR move that was annoiting Ronald Johnson as Senior VP of Referee Operations. The guy is a Army Major General so obviously he must be honest because today's army is only full of officers with the highest integrity and moral values.

I'm not taking a shot at Johnson for allI know he is an upstanding man but is Stern telling me an Army Major general was the most qualified man for the job. He's been the second in command at the Army Corp of Engineers for years overseeing reconstruction projects in Bosnia and Iraq and now he is going to be able to tell if NBA referees are doing solid jobs or are crooked?

I think it is no more than a smokescreen to put an honorable standard bearer in the forefront who won't know exactly what is going on behind his back because he hasn't a clue about what he is in charge of managing. What an absolute crock.

Want a fair and balanced referee system. Put a ten member ownership commitee in charge of the situation and revolve two members out and two new members in every year. Each owner, when it is there turn to serve can name their representative to this committee and then let this committee evaluate, critque, and generally be in charge of the refs.

Keep it completely out of Stern's dirty little fingers.

[iowa plowboy]

99% of the refs out there do a very good job.

I couldn't agree more.  The problem is in how they officiate.  I don't know how they keep track.  But they are very consistent which tells me that they're great at what they do.  There are a whole group of players who have never traveled.  The primadonna, the thugster, Tank Carter, Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Anthony, et al, are not capable of traveling.  I harken back to the hysterical McHalesque/Aingesque perplexed looks on their faces the one time Paul and Kobe each got called for traveling in the Finals.

The bigger problem is that the referees have to call the games the way the league wants.

That is THE problem.
The rules don't need to be altered.....They need to be followed.....By every player.  If they are, like in previous eras, the players and coaches will adjust and the game will be better and more legitimate for it.
  

[EJPLAYA]

99% of the refs out there do a very good job.

I couldn't agree more.  The problem is in how they officiate.  I don't know how they keep track.  But they are very consistent which tells me that they're great at what they do.  There are a whole group of players who have never traveled.  The primadonna, the thugster, Tank Carter, Kobe, Wade, Pierce, Anthony, et al, are not capable of traveling.  I harken back to the hysterical McHalesque/Aingesque perplexed looks on their faces the one time Paul and Kobe each got called for traveling in the Finals.

The bigger problem is that the referees have to call the games the way the league wants.

That is THE problem.
The rules don't need to be altered.....They need to be followed.....By every player.  If they are, like in previous eras, the players and coaches will adjust and the game will be better and more legitimate for it.
  

TP Plowboy... I agree that this is exactly the issue that needs to be addressed. It was quite heartening to see these stars get called for traveling and charges that they have never had called before. Shaq is  another guy that has been whistled much more lately. A call should be the same no matter who commits the offense. No exceptions...

[Shiz1111]

What an absolute crock of a PR move that was annoiting Ronald Johnson as Senior VP of Referee Operations. The guy is a Army Major General so obviously he must be honest because today's army is only full of officers with the highest integrity and moral values.

I'm not taking a shot at Johnson for allI know he is an upstanding man but is Stern telling me an Army Major general was the most qualified man for the job. He's been the second in command at the Army Corp of Engineers for years overseeing reconstruction projects in Bosnia and Iraq and now he is going to be able to tell if NBA referees are doing solid jobs or are crooked?

I think it is no more than a smokescreen to put an honorable standard bearer in the forefront who won't know exactly what is going on behind his back because he hasn't a clue about what he is in charge of managing. What an absolute crock.

Want a fair and balanced referee system. Put a ten member ownership commitee in charge of the situation and revolve two members out and two new members in every year. Each owner, when it is there turn to serve can name their representative to this committee and then let this committee evaluate, critque, and generally be in charge of the refs.

Keep it completely out of Stern's dirty little fingers.

My feelings weren't as adamant as this when I heard about the addition of Johnson but I definitely agree...I had a lot of doubts about it and it was a pretty obvious PR move. I'm always game to see the other side of things though...does anyone see any good coming from this kind of change

[pearljammer10]

The refs need to call the games as they see them and not let outside attractions effect their calling (Mr. Stern, the fans, how good or bad a team is)... They also need to fix the problem with flopping.

[iowa plowboy]

What an absolute crock of a PR move that was annoiting Ronald Johnson as Senior VP of Referee Operations. The guy is a Army Major General so obviously he must be honest because today's army is only full of officers with the highest integrity and moral values.

I'm not taking a shot at Johnson for allI know he is an upstanding man but is Stern telling me an Army Major general was the most qualified man for the job. He's been the second in command at the Army Corp of Engineers for years overseeing reconstruction projects in Bosnia and Iraq and now he is going to be able to tell if NBA referees are doing solid jobs or are crooked?

I think it is no more than a smokescreen to put an honorable standard bearer in the forefront who won't know exactly what is going on behind his back because he hasn't a clue about what he is in charge of managing. What an absolute crock.

Want a fair and balanced referee system. Put a ten member ownership commitee in charge of the situation and revolve two members out and two new members in every year. Each owner, when it is there turn to serve can name their representative to this committee and then let this committee evaluate, critque, and generally be in charge of the refs.

Keep it completely out of Stern's dirty little fingers.

My feelings weren't as adamant as this when I heard about the addition of Johnson but I definitely agree...I had a lot of doubts about it and it was a pretty obvious PR move. I'm always game to see the other side of things though...does anyone see any good coming from this kind of change

The only change that is going to work is to officiate according to the rules without exception.  They can convene as many panels as they want.  But if the primadonna can go from halfcourt to the basket without dribbling and Adrian Griffin gets called for traveling when he's not to make up for it, nothing matters.  Tim Donaghy may have existed in the Jordan era for a little while.  But he would have been caught within 10 games in the Bird era on back.  It is ridiculous to have overtly different rules for different players and then different rules at different junctures of games.  After watching a few NBDL games, which are poorly, but consistently officiated by one set of rules.  I am amazed that when an official from the NBDL gets promoted, that they can consistently officiate well when keeping all of these players and junctures in mind.  Just for fun, I'd absolutely love to have replays for just a short period during an adjustment phase if Stern and the NBA suddenly decided to legitimize the game by forgetting that there are stars on the court.

[nickagneta]

What an absolute crock of a PR move that was annoiting Ronald Johnson as Senior VP of Referee Operations. The guy is a Army Major General so obviously he must be honest because today's army is only full of officers with the highest integrity and moral values.

I'm not taking a shot at Johnson for allI know he is an upstanding man but is Stern telling me an Army Major general was the most qualified man for the job. He's been the second in command at the Army Corp of Engineers for years overseeing reconstruction projects in Bosnia and Iraq and now he is going to be able to tell if NBA referees are doing solid jobs or are crooked?

I think it is no more than a smokescreen to put an honorable standard bearer in the forefront who won't know exactly what is going on behind his back because he hasn't a clue about what he is in charge of managing. What an absolute crock.

Want a fair and balanced referee system. Put a ten member ownership commitee in charge of the situation and revolve two members out and two new members in every year. Each owner, when it is there turn to serve can name their representative to this committee and then let this committee evaluate, critque, and generally be in charge of the refs.

Keep it completely out of Stern's dirty little fingers.

My feelings weren't as adamant as this when I heard about the addition of Johnson but I definitely agree...I had a lot of doubts about it and it was a pretty obvious PR move. I'm always game to see the other side of things though...does anyone see any good coming from this kind of change

The only change that is going to work is to officiate according to the rules without exception.  They can convene as many panels as they want.  But if the primadonna can go from halfcourt to the basket without dribbling and Adrian Griffin gets called for traveling when he's not to make up for it, nothing matters.  Tim Donaghy may have existed in the Jordan era for a little while.  But he would have been caught within 10 games in the Bird era on back.  It is ridiculous to have overtly different rules for different players and then different rules at different junctures of games.  After watching a few NBDL games, which are poorly, but consistently officiated by one set of rules.  I am amazed that when an official from the NBDL gets promoted, that they can consistently officiate well when keeping all of these players and junctures in mind.  Just for fun, I'd absolutely love to have replays for just a short period during an adjustment phase if Stern and the NBA suddenly decided to legitimize the game by forgetting that there are stars on the court.

TP4U iowa, quality post. And of course, you are 100% correct.

But there is the right way of doing things and then there is the David Stern way of doing things. So rather than do it right, Stern instead puts a completely unqualified individual who is beyond reproach to "manage" the situation. And then one of two things happens:

1.) He does nothing and hopes the officiating doesn't get so poor that it actually can appear to the untrained eye that something fishy could be happening and then Arlen Spector gets involved. Because let's face it, the current state of officiating is accomplishing exactly what he wants it to accomplish. His stars are scoring more and getting more Sportscenter highlights because they are blatantly breaking the rules and not being called for it. Stuart Scott telling his audience that LeBron just dropped 45 points in sounds a lot better than LeBron got called for the correct amount of fouls he committed, the correct amount of traveling and palming violations he committed and therefore was in foul trouble, played only 30 minutes, scored only 21 points and his team lost to the Timberwolves because of it.

Or

2.) He will do something about it but it will be minimal and gradual and take a long time to accomplish.

And either way, if things don't go right, he has a perfect scapegoat, someone not named David Stern.

[cordobes]

You have to separate out the two problems. Referees mistakes is an issue but those happen in all sports. The bigger problem is that the referees have to call the games the way the league wants. As Jeff Gundy said, if you paid attention to the rules, there would be traveling on almost every trip downcourt. I would add "3 seconds, pushing off, holding, using the off hand, etc, etc." The real problem is that if you aren't going to use the rule book what is and what is not an infraction will always be in question. I was playing basketball before any of the existing NBA players were born and yet there are games where I have no idea what a foul or traveling is. I would have called a zillion offensive fouls on Shaq and M. Jordan for instance as I understand the rule book. Until the NBA decides what the "real rules" are, you can't expect the referees to call a consistent game.

Yeps, it's a valid point. FIBA referees are worse than NBA refs, but at least it's more visible when they make mistakes. NBA rules have become so loose that sometimes it's hard to figure out officiating mistakes. On the other hand, some NBA players have such great workfoot and master the jump-stop so well that it's hard to understand if they traveled or not, for example. Or the defensive 3 second: it's a nightmare rule if you want consistent officiating, but with so many large bodies, it's probably needed. But the way moving screens are called is bizarre, for example. Also, don't call ticky-tack fouls on players fighting for position in the post and call the offensive fouls even when the defender doesn't flop like he's in a kung fu movie. Or bring back the hand-checking. But give the defense a chance. I mean, I've seen guys being called for fouls when they were just using a single forearm. Call the foul if hands are being used to protect a position, or both forearms, but not a single one...