Author Topic: Danny still values youth even though we're technically no longer rebuilding  (Read 6598 times)

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Offline TradeProposalDude

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A few days ago, I watched the 10 PM CSN show with Mike & Greg. They had Danny Ainge talk about the draft picks on it. Basically the reason he went with Giddens & Walker was because they were "playmakers."

He said, if I remember this correctly, that athletes who can score and have the quickness to get back on D well enough are a diamond commodity that there is never an abundance of. And despite Giddens's headcase label, he thinks the environment could help transform him into the kind of player that fits into the Celtics scheme of doing things.

Danny also went on record to say that when the Celtics during the playoffs went on offensive droughts that were hardly ever seen during the regular season, the problem was a dearth of raw athleticism and explosive energy that the other teams in contrast were able to provide.

From what I can see, the Celtics of old ('05-'07) were kind of like the Hawks who showed up and almost eliminated us in the first round. They really weren't all that good aside from one player (Joe Johnson: Paul Pierce), but they still had a lot of young talent and pieces that could potentially pan out to be something special down the road. One thing that could never be denied about what they would give you IN THE PRESENT was their brute passion. Each and every one of those guys had a mission to get recognized on the big stage, in order to show the world that they're more than just bottomfeeders. In reality, they may have just been borderline playoff teams, but they provided the endless supply of energy that the big boys... the KG's, Allen's, and Pierce's, once in a while, fall short of.

My best guess would be that Ainge is trying to rebuild and win titles at the same time, for a foundation to be set when future players join the C's over the next 5-10 years. It's easy to say that all GM's think along those lines, and have those long term ambitions, but when you look at the Spurs & Suns who either sell all their draft picks or pick Europeans who never come overseas to actually contribute, the reality is --- that just ain't so.

Looking at the Celtics roster of present day, there are a few young guys whose draftings appear consistent with the general theme Ainge has described. Leon Powe is the first one that came to mind for me. Just the way he plays, the endless pennies of passion that explode out from the Leon Powe piggybank, whether it be in a meaningless regular season game OR the NBA FINALS, which so beautifully demonstrates that he really does care that much. He's definitely a game changer when he's on the court, and most certainly can be described as a playmaker too. Big Baby has shown this in spurts, however he has to lose weight for his optimal effectiveness to be seen. Tony Allen could have been really good, but whatever, I digress. The point has been made, and I think no matter how good we'll be, and how many titles we win over the next 4-5 years, Ainge is still very concerned about being a team that can shift into fast break gear, one that is never lacking in energy or collective athleticism.

In short, I think Ainge's vision is not completely centered around adding short term quick fixes around the big 3. He clearly wants to get younger and still have a foundation for when the vet's get too old. Do you think he's doing the right thing, or should he be looking to trade those picks for vets; short term improvements to the team's immediate success?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2008, 11:44:25 PM by wdleehi »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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We went through offensive droughts in the playoffs because:

-better teams play better defense
-Ray Allen and Pierce jump shooting were not as consistent
-defenders played off of Rondo and Perk more and more
-officials generously gave more fouls to "lesser" teams
-other C's weren't able to make shots (Cassell in particular)

Point is, even if we add more athleticism to the team it doesn't mean we will still be able to score....you can be crazy physically gifted and still not be able to put the ball in the hoop.

Ainge drafted for value and upside....the guys we got can get better and will look better to other teams because they can jump, score, and dunk.

I'm more interested to see if they can fit in with a championship caliber team and play some semblance of defense....team or otherwise.

Offline TradeProposalDude

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We went through offensive droughts in the playoffs because:

-better teams play better defense
-Ray Allen and Pierce jump shooting were not as consistent
-defenders played off of Rondo and Perk more and more
-officials generously gave more fouls to "lesser" teams
-other C's weren't able to make shots (Cassell in particular)

Point is, even if we add more athleticism to the team it doesn't mean we will still be able to score....you can be crazy physically gifted and still not be able to put the ball in the hoop.

Ainge drafted for value and upside....the guys we got can get better and will look better to other teams because they can jump, score, and dunk.

I'm more interested to see if they can fit in with a championship caliber team and play some semblance of defense....team or otherwise.
Good post, but why do you think Ray Allen and Paul Pierce were struggling to get their shots off? I agree that Rondo's indecisiveness and inconsistency often made things worse than they should have been, but at heart we all know that a team with three #1 scoring options should still seal the deal against teams that on paper presented no matchup problem to us.

I think we underestimate how effective Leon Powe and James Posey and Eddie House and all those guys were as change of pace role players. Even in those games we won (barely) over the 26-game playoff stretch, those guys often did something - gave a little more effort on getting the board, finishing with style after a number of bad low percentage shots were being thrown up, etc.

Now, those guys I just mentioned are not good enough to do that for ya over an 82 game regular season and ensuring playoffs. As aforementioned, I think Tony Allen is the prototypical Ainge guy who just never "got it" enough to make a difference.

My best bet is that he's counting on Giddens and Walker to come through either this year or next year to give the Celtics that "insurance" when there is a dry spell of energy.

Offline TheReaLPuba

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I think Leone and Big Baby bring energy, activity, and spunk when they get in. They aren't exactly super athletes but they know their limitations and play hard when they're out there.

House and Posey also brought significant energy and offense as well.

I'm certainly not down on Ainge's draft picks because we got some nice value at such low picks....plus we can stash them in the DLeague or Europe.

Offline CoachBo

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I don't think he's counting on either, and there's mounting evidence out there that he's not going to sign any of the picks, stashing them in Europe.
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Offline wdleehi

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Some youth on the team is always good.  They have more active legs.  They tend to be more emotional.  They give someone for the vets to lead and work with (which probably helps the vets more then people think)


They are cheap. 

Offline SShoreFan 2.0

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The Red Sox have an excellent mix of youth and veterans, I see the Celts doing the same.
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Offline TradeProposalDude

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The Red Sox have an excellent mix of youth and veterans, I see the Celts doing the same.
Because the future is very important.

See how the Suns front office failed their fans by trading away draft picks that have panned out in other places (Deng, Robinson, Rondo, Rodriguez, the two SEA picks we will have to wait and see)? Subsequently, they ruined a potential dynasty that could have been devastating had there been more depth and more weapons to utilize.

Giddens and Walker may not contribute at all this year, for what it is worth, but Ainge I think has his priorities in the right place. Keep your draft picks. See how they mesh on a team with a strong nucleus that is devoted to winning and pushing everybody to work their hardest. And lastly, the investment being made needs to make sense for both the short and long term option. So potentially, Giddens could replace Pierce or Ray Allen down the road provided he keeps his head on straight, and seasons his game by refining his natural God given tools that should make him a very good NBA player.

Some GM's just don't realize how important every draft pick is. High first round, low first round, I don't give a flying falooey. There is plenty of talent in every draft at every selection.

Offline Reyquila

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Why do we have to consistently use the term "cheap" when we talk thate we got so and so cheap. I find it demeaning to someone when it looks like the player is not good enough to get a higher price. I know some will say cheap ithe the contrary to "expensive" a no-no term when we are talking about overpriced players, but it strikes a nerve with me when we use that term cheap when we are dealing with players, whether they are ours or not. Dont bother explaining why the term cheap is used trying to justify its use. I know the why. It still sucks and I cannot help disliking such term in here. It denigrates the user and the usee. Its about the only word I dislike it being used in this blog. So be it. Its off my chest at last. Have a nice day.
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Offline TradeProposalDude

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Why do we have to consistently use the term "cheap" when we talk thate we got so and so cheap. I find it demeaning to someone when it looks like the player is not good enough to get a higher price. I know some will say cheap ithe the contrary to "expensive" a no-no term when we are talking about overpriced players, but it strikes a nerve with me when we use that term cheap when we are dealing with players, whether they are ours or not. Dont bother explaining why the term cheap is used trying to justify its use. I know the why. It still sucks and I cannot help disliking such term in here. It denigrates the user and the usee. Its about the only word I dislike it being used in this blog. So be it. Its off my chest at last. Have a nice day.
I'm pretty sure wdleehi meant that they come cheap, not that they are cheap.

Online slamtheking

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With Danny's success in the draft, I think he knows better than anyone the value of every pick he has.   I'm sure he's also aware that he has to keep the development pipeline loaded for when RA, PP and KG start their inevitable slide from superstardom.  

Detroit is a current example of where this is occurring with their mix of vets and new youth.

Offline Reyquila

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I wasnt referring to one comment Wedleehi may have made. I was refering to the regularity in which that comment is made in this blog. It just dont sound politically correct, no matter the reason it is made when we are talking about human beings. Human beings are not a perishable commodity, even if they are treated  them as such. It just strikes anerve when I see that term used in here. Sorry. I must be wrong, of course.
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Offline BballTim

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I wasnt referring to one comment Wedleehi may have made. I was refering to the regularity in which that comment is made in this blog. It just dont sound politically correct, no matter the reason it is made when we are talking about human beings. Human beings are not a perishable commodity, even if they are treated  them as such. It just strikes anerve when I see that term used in here. Sorry. I must be wrong, of course.

  Technically we're talking about the price of the contracts the players sign, not the players as human beings.

Offline outcry

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wow, i wish i could take away TP.
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Offline cavman

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yeah...

you are always trying to build for the future since athletes age quickly.

1. Salary cap considerations
2. Player development
3. Lower expectations/demands for playing time at times.
4. FAs leave....
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