Walker is willing to go to Europe!

[crownsy]

his agent should think that his client is the 50th pick and isnt cracking a championship roster for a year or two, and send his guy out to work on his game.

kid is the 50th pick, he's not sniffing a roster spot.

He was a low pick but he's a top 20 talent.

He'll make the roster this year and ride the bench and appear in some blowout games.

I think next year he cracks the rotation.

 Every kid with upside picked in the second round is played up as "well, if it haden't been for x, he would have been a lottery pick!"

and if i had been 7'2, i would have made the NBA instead of a desk job.

He will not be taking a valuable bench spot on a championship team, its either europe or the NBDL for him for a year.

You mean that valuable 15th spot, the one that is in street clothes or in the D league?  I think there is a spot for Walker given there are 15 spots and only 12 dress, he won't be "taking a valuable bench spot" if he is not even eligible to play most games.  I agree also with other posters that you are way overgeneralizing about second round picks, it isn't just the Celtics or local media making these claims about where Walker would have gone if not injured, most rating services had him that high.  There are multiple 2nd round picks who have never been ranked very high, they got picked in the 2nd round because that is what their talent warranted.  I think Walker would get far more out of being around the Celts, perhaps shuttling back and forth to the D League a la Pruitt this year, learning the Celts plays, seeing how our vets conduct themselves, etc. than heading to a foreign country just to get playing time.

did the people saying i hate this kid not read that i said overseas or the NBDL?

i thought the fact that i listed the NDBL as well was a clear indication that i ment the 12 dressing spots, but apperntly not.

also, am i over generlizing? for every leon powe out of the second round, there's 20 scrub players who, according to the experts on draft night "have huge upside, but some flaws in thier games"

i hope this kid turns out to be the greatest second round pick of all time, but i see nothing wrong with saying he's probley a kid that will need europe or the NBDL for a few years to develop.

[cordobes]

In the case of Walker, he was atop everyone's draft board as a top 5-10 pick before he hurt his knee - that is a fact, not something drummed up because he has upside.  If he is healthy, he certainly has the talent, athleticism and NBA ready body to deserve a bottom roster spot on ANY team in the NBA. 

I think this kid is an absolute beast and I'd rather have him getting experience practicing with the C's and getting run in the NBDL than heading over to Europe.

To which injury are you referring? The last one or the one he suffered in 2007, when he was a freshman with a couple of college games under his belt? Because I don't believe for a second that the Walker I saw last season would go higher than the late 1st round. Heck, if he was a top-10 pick he wouldn't be working out for teams like the Pistons.

Anyway, I'd like to hear arguments from those who don't agree with sending Walker to Europe. It seems to me that you are just begging the question: "I don't want Walker to go to Europe because I think it would be better if he stays with the Celtics". That's a fallacy, it's not possible to argue with that.

I think it would be the better decision for Walker, hence for the Celtics. I explained here my reasons to believe that:
http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20611.0

[meesho33]

his agent should think that his client is the 50th pick and isnt cracking a championship roster for a year or two, and send his guy out to work on his game.

kid is the 50th pick, he's not sniffing a roster spot.

He was a low pick but he's a top 20 talent.

He'll make the roster this year and ride the bench and appear in some blowout games.

I think next year he cracks the rotation.

 Every kid with upside picked in the second round is played up as "well, if it haden't been for x, he would have been a lottery pick!"

and if i had been 7'2, i would have made the NBA instead of a desk job.

He will not be taking a valuable bench spot on a championship team, its either europe or the NBDL for him for a year.

You mean that valuable 15th spot, the one that is in street clothes or in the D league?  I think there is a spot for Walker given there are 15 spots and only 12 dress, he won't be "taking a valuable bench spot" if he is not even eligible to play most games.  I agree also with other posters that you are way overgeneralizing about second round picks, it isn't just the Celtics or local media making these claims about where Walker would have gone if not injured, most rating services had him that high.  There are multiple 2nd round picks who have never been ranked very high, they got picked in the 2nd round because that is what their talent warranted.  I think Walker would get far more out of being around the Celts, perhaps shuttling back and forth to the D League a la Pruitt this year, learning the Celts plays, seeing how our vets conduct themselves, etc. than heading to a foreign country just to get playing time.

did the people saying i hate this kid not read that i said overseas or the NBDL?

i thought the fact that i listed the NDBL as well was a clear indication that i ment the 12 dressing spots, but apperntly not.

also, am i over generlizing? for every leon powe out of the second round, there's 20 scrub players who, according to the experts on draft night "have huge upside, but some flaws in thier games"

i hope this kid turns out to be the greatest second round pick of all time, but i see nothing wrong with saying he's probley a kid that will need europe or the NBDL for a few years to develop.

I, for one, didn't think at all that you "hated" Walker.  I was simply pointing out three things:

1. It is a generalization to say  "Every kid with upside picked in the second round is played up as 'well, if it haden't been for x, he would have been a lottery pick!'"  That is simply not the case.  Your argument above about there being 20 scrub players for every Leon Powe is accurate - but it does nothing to validate your original statement.

2. Walker is not one of these "upside" only players.  He was very productive on a good team in college and was considering a top 5-10 pick before his second knee injury.

3. I think NBDL and a spot at the bottom of the C's roster ala Pruitt would be better for him than Europe.  You did say NBDL, but you said not worth a roster spot and that is where I think I disagree to some extent.

[crownsy]

his agent should think that his client is the 50th pick and isnt cracking a championship roster for a year or two, and send his guy out to work on his game.

kid is the 50th pick, he's not sniffing a roster spot.

He was a low pick but he's a top 20 talent.

He'll make the roster this year and ride the bench and appear in some blowout games.

I think next year he cracks the rotation.

 Every kid with upside picked in the second round is played up as "well, if it haden't been for x, he would have been a lottery pick!"

and if i had been 7'2, i would have made the NBA instead of a desk job.

He will not be taking a valuable bench spot on a championship team, its either europe or the NBDL for him for a year.

You mean that valuable 15th spot, the one that is in street clothes or in the D league?  I think there is a spot for Walker given there are 15 spots and only 12 dress, he won't be "taking a valuable bench spot" if he is not even eligible to play most games.  I agree also with other posters that you are way overgeneralizing about second round picks, it isn't just the Celtics or local media making these claims about where Walker would have gone if not injured, most rating services had him that high.  There are multiple 2nd round picks who have never been ranked very high, they got picked in the 2nd round because that is what their talent warranted.  I think Walker would get far more out of being around the Celts, perhaps shuttling back and forth to the D League a la Pruitt this year, learning the Celts plays, seeing how our vets conduct themselves, etc. than heading to a foreign country just to get playing time.

did the people saying i hate this kid not read that i said overseas or the NBDL?

i thought the fact that i listed the NDBL as well was a clear indication that i ment the 12 dressing spots, but apperntly not.

also, am i over generlizing? for every leon powe out of the second round, there's 20 scrub players who, according to the experts on draft night "have huge upside, but some flaws in thier games"

i hope this kid turns out to be the greatest second round pick of all time, but i see nothing wrong with saying he's probley a kid that will need europe or the NBDL for a few years to develop.

I, for one, didn't think at all that you "hated" Walker.  I was simply pointing out three things:

1. It is a generalization to say  "Every kid with upside picked in the second round is played up as 'well, if it haden't been for x, he would have been a lottery pick!'"  That is simply not the case.  Your argument above about there being 20 scrub players for every Leon Powe is accurate - but it does nothing to validate your original statement.

2. Walker is not one of these "upside" only players.  He was very productive on a good team in college and was considering a top 5-10 pick before his second knee injury.

3. I think NBDL and a spot at the bottom of the C's roster ala Pruitt would be better for him than Europe.  You did say NBDL, but you said not worth a roster spot and that is where I think I disagree to some extent.

but to go to the NBDL, he would have to have one of the non-dressing spots. so i don't think were actually arguining anythign there.

I still disagree about the second round. there's a ton of players picked in that round that were supposed to be high picks, but an injury dropped them, and they turn out to be exactly what secodn round picks are, good bench guys at best.

Again, i hope this kid breaks the mold, that would be awesome for us, and good for him personaly, but lets not over sell him, which a majority of this thread seems to be doing, because he put on a green uniform.

also, can some one explain to me whats wrong with going to europe? to me, thats a deeper league and more competitive than the NDBL.

[DinoRadjaLives]

also, can some one explain to me whats wrong with going to europe? to me, thats a deeper league and more competitive than the NDBL.
[/quote]

TP - No way can you compare the NBDL with Europe. Europe teams would blow away NBDL teams.

[cordialb]

The only negatives i see about sending this kid to Europe are:

1. Not being around KG, Ray, and Paul and learning the NBA life and how to live it and play in it from the guys who are pretty good at it.  Rookies always seem to have an adjustment period of a year or more to get accustomed to the style of play and life.

2. If he signs overseas with a euroteam, does that contract prevent him from being called back to help out with us.  I really hope its not a problem, but just in case of (knock on wood) a string of injuries that leaves us shorthanded or something.  It almost makes me sick to even type that...., but i would guess his Euro contract would keep him locked out of our reach.

3. I want to see him play.....

Those are 3 reasons i would like to keep him around, but i cant really argue against him getting some good playing time against fair competition in europe either. 


Despite all of this, cutting Scal, despite making me cheer, is not an option.  He will still count against the cap, and while we gain a final roster spot, we lose his expiring contract.  While not many teams will be drooling over the big red head helping their team out next year, teams will be scratching and clawing at picking up expiring contracts next year as the summer of Lebron draws near.  A nearly 4 mil expiring contract is a nice little bargaining chip that danny can really cash in on next year, and he is definately not going to toss that chip away after making payments on it for so long.

[RockinRyA]

The only negatives i see about sending this kid to Europe are:

1. Not being around KG, Ray, and Paul and learning the NBA life and how to live it and play in it from the guys who are pretty good at it.  Rookies always seem to have an adjustment period of a year or more to get accustomed to the style of play and life.

2. If he signs overseas with a euroteam, does that contract prevent him from being called back to help out with us.  I really hope its not a problem, but just in case of (knock on wood) a string of injuries that leaves us shorthanded or something.  It almost makes me sick to even type that...., but i would guess his Euro contract would keep him locked out of our reach.

3. I want to see him play.....

Those are 3 reasons i would like to keep him around, but i cant really argue against him getting some good playing time against fair competition in europe either. 


Despite all of this, cutting Scal, despite making me cheer, is not an option.  He will still count against the cap, and while we gain a final roster spot, we lose his expiring contract.  While not many teams will be drooling over the big red head helping their team out next year, teams will be scratching and clawing at picking up expiring contracts next year as the summer of Lebron draws near.  A nearly 4 mil expiring contract is a nice little bargaining chip that danny can really cash in on next year, and he is definately not going to toss that chip away after making payments on it for so long.

i agree with your points

uhmm well cutting scal wont give me a cheer. i love the "SCA-LA-BRI-NE!" chant-means blow out 

yeah, thats basically the difference between trading scal now rather than next season. while they want his contract for 2010, they wont want to pay nearly 4m for someone who wont play much for them. but come next year, teams would be scrambling for that

[cordobes]

The only negatives i see about sending this kid to Europe are:

1. Not being around KG, Ray, and Paul and learning the NBA life and how to live it and play in it from the guys who are pretty good at it.  Rookies always seem to have an adjustment period of a year or more to get accustomed to the style of play and life.

2. If he signs overseas with a euroteam, does that contract prevent him from being called back to help out with us.  I really hope its not a problem, but just in case of (knock on wood) a string of injuries that leaves us shorthanded or something.  It almost makes me sick to even type that...., but i would guess his Euro contract would keep him locked out of our reach.

3. I want to see him play.....

Those are 3 reasons i would like to keep him around, but i cant really argue against him getting some good playing time against fair competition in europe either. 

1. That shouldn't be his priority concerning his development. Hanging around Pierce won't help him to develop what he most lacks: some individual fundamentals and a general understanding of team-play.

2. If he signs with a euroteam, it has to be a 1 year contract, of course. No European team will pay much to Walker or offer him a long contract anyway. It's not like he's good enough to get PT for the best European teams right away...

3. Eh...that's kind of egoistical... and do you watch that much D-League?

Besides the competition, he'll also get the chance of practicing a lot, both individually and team schemes. And learn how to apply training acquired skills in game situations. It's though to achieve that staying in the Celtics roster.

[Weird Facts]

his agent should think that his client is the 50th pick and isnt cracking a championship roster for a year or two, and send his guy out to work on his game.

kid is the 50th pick, he's not sniffing a roster spot.

He was a low pick but he's a top 20 talent.

He'll make the roster this year and ride the bench and appear in some blowout games.

I think next year he cracks the rotation.

Wishful thinking,  He'll crack the roster once Pierce or Allen shows that their Mileage is starting to break them down. 

I mean common, say what you want about Ray.   Surgery on both ankles in the off season. (Regardless of whether they were minor) and I don't think he looked to be slowing down much in his final game of the season  (game 6, NBA Finals)

How bout you?  you think he is getting too old to play?

[meesho33]

In the case of Walker, he was atop everyone's draft board as a top 5-10 pick before he hurt his knee - that is a fact, not something drummed up because he has upside.  If he is healthy, he certainly has the talent, athleticism and NBA ready body to deserve a bottom roster spot on ANY team in the NBA. 

I think this kid is an absolute beast and I'd rather have him getting experience practicing with the C's and getting run in the NBDL than heading over to Europe.

To which injury are you referring? The last one or the one he suffered in 2007, when he was a freshman with a couple of college games under his belt? Because I don't believe for a second that the Walker I saw last season would go higher than the late 1st round. Heck, if he was a top-10 pick he wouldn't be working out for teams like the Pistons.

Anyway, I'd like to hear arguments from those who don't agree with sending Walker to Europe. It seems to me that you are just begging the question: "I don't want Walker to go to Europe because I think it would be better if he stays with the Celtics". That's a fallacy, it's not possible to argue with that.

I think it would be the better decision for Walker, hence for the Celtics. I explained here my reasons to believe that:
http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20611.0

The second injury.  While I respect your opinion, and like your analysis of his game, I don't think his weaknesses are anything that can't be worked on just as easily here when he's working with the C's coaching staff and playing in the D league.

In fact, my argument for him staying here is very simple - Our coaches, veteran players along with stints in the NBDL will have a greater impact on him and will help him improve his weaknesses more than playing in Europe where we have no influence.

If you have any arguments with the fact that he was, indeed, a top 5-10 prospect before his second injury, your out on an island on that.  

[cordobes]

In the case of Walker, he was atop everyone's draft board as a top 5-10 pick before he hurt his knee - that is a fact, not something drummed up because he has upside.  If he is healthy, he certainly has the talent, athleticism and NBA ready body to deserve a bottom roster spot on ANY team in the NBA. 

I think this kid is an absolute beast and I'd rather have him getting experience practicing with the C's and getting run in the NBDL than heading over to Europe.

To which injury are you referring? The last one or the one he suffered in 2007, when he was a freshman with a couple of college games under his belt? Because I don't believe for a second that the Walker I saw last season would go higher than the late 1st round. Heck, if he was a top-10 pick he wouldn't be working out for teams like the Pistons.

Anyway, I'd like to hear arguments from those who don't agree with sending Walker to Europe. It seems to me that you are just begging the question: "I don't want Walker to go to Europe because I think it would be better if he stays with the Celtics". That's a fallacy, it's not possible to argue with that.

I think it would be the better decision for Walker, hence for the Celtics. I explained here my reasons to believe that:
http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20611.0

The second injury.  While I respect your opinion, and like your analysis of his game, I don't think his weaknesses are anything that can't be worked on just as easily here when he's working with the C's coaching staff and playing in the D league.

In fact, my argument for him staying here is very simple - Our coaches, veteran players along with stints in the NBDL will have a greater impact on him and will help him improve his weaknesses more than playing in Europe where we have no influence.

If you have any arguments with the fact that he was, indeed, a top 5-10 prospect before his second injury, your out on an island on that. 

The second ACL is that what you mean? Well, he was a freshman with a couple of college games, wasn't he? I really don't care what mock drafts where saying at that time. Besides, he is who he is now. He played an entire season last year and he hasn't showed nothing that would make him lotto material.

He can't be working with the C's coaching staff and playing in the D-League. We can send a coach to his team, but the problem with the D-League is that they practice too little. Also, the competition is very subpar, and that will allow and incentive him to resort to his flawed game; and there's no kind of team-play (every D-League game I watched was more similar to an All-Star Game than to a competitive basketball game), something I think he really needs. 

There's also a problem that you as a coach generally have with players like Walker when practicing. He may have a negative impact in any kind of team scheme/collective drills, something I think it won't happen with Giddens. Being out of a place in a cut, missing a rotation, etc.

[kozlodoev]

He talks about it in an interview with Dickerson...That is good to hear but it will be interesting to see what his agent thinks about it.

Link: http://fsnnewengland.com/CelticsCentral.jsp

Actually, in a recent interview Walker said he hasn't even hired an agent yet. So we'll be fine with him. The fact that Giddens refused to report for camp even though he had guaranteed money worries me, though. That's no way to start a tenure with the Celtics.

[Roy Hobbs]

He talks about it in an interview with Dickerson...That is good to hear but it will be interesting to see what his agent thinks about it.

Link: http://fsnnewengland.com/CelticsCentral.jsp

Actually, in a recent interview Walker said he hasn't even hired an agent yet. So we'll be fine with him. The fact that Giddens refused to report for camp even though he had guaranteed money worries me, though. That's no way to start a tenure with the Celtics.

What do you mean by "even though he had guaranteed money"?  He hasn't signed a contract yet, so he isn't guaranteed anything, as far as I understand.