Author Topic: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan  (Read 35371 times)

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Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #30 on: June 30, 2008, 12:02:52 PM »

Offline winsomme

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i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....

I think if you flee from the cops, you should be chased.  The police may use discretion in deciding whether to arrest you after that, but they should certainly chase you, assuming that such is reasonably possible, and there isn't another situation that needs their immediate attention.

I don't think all kids with open containers should be detained or arrested.  However, once you flee from the cops after they approach you, you're asking for trouble.

like i said "asking for trouble" and actually "getting trouble" are different things.....

and i have been in the situation to know that it could have gone down differently.....i have enough knucklehead friends to know that bad decisions are made ALL the time. and the police have chosen to acknowledge the stupid behavior for what it was.....heck, many of them have been there...and they can usually tell when there is a public threat or not...

that is why i think it was avoidable.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #31 on: June 30, 2008, 12:07:09 PM »

Offline Kwhit10

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How many times have wanted people been found because they have had a tail light out or some stupid thing wrong with their car.  The cops approach normally pulling them over to tell them what they need to fix, and if the people know they're wanted they sometimes run.

I'm sorry but if I was a cop and approached someone and they started to run from me that would definitely seem like probably cause to go after them.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #32 on: June 30, 2008, 12:25:14 PM »

Offline BballTim

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i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....

I think if you flee from the cops, you should be chased.  The police may use discretion in deciding whether to arrest you after that, but they should certainly chase you, assuming that such is reasonably possible, and there isn't another situation that needs their immediate attention.

I don't think all kids with open containers should be detained or arrested.  However, once you flee from the cops after they approach you, you're asking for trouble.

like i said "asking for trouble" and actually "getting trouble" are different things.....

and i have been in the situation to know that it could have gone down differently.....i have enough knucklehead friends to know that bad decisions are made ALL the time. and the police have chosen to acknowledge the stupid behavior for what it was.....heck, many of them have been there...and they can usually tell when there is a public threat or not...

that is why i think it was avoidable.

  Why couldn't the kid have avoided it by not running? Why blame the cops? And where does the accusation that the cops killed the kid come from? 

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #33 on: June 30, 2008, 12:27:11 PM »

Offline Rondo2287

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People posting need to stop saying the kid was killed. He died on sunday.  But there is no evidence that he was killed.  So before you make accusations consider the wording of what you say. 
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Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #34 on: June 30, 2008, 12:39:01 PM »

Offline LB3533

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The kid made the mistake to run from the police.

I don't fault the police on this one. Kid should have never ran.

Cops weren't out looking for him on that night of celebration. The Cops were just out there to keep order.

He ran and made himself into a potential criminal target.

Cops are going to chase ya if you run....that's what they are trained to do.

It's highly possible with the running and the alcohol in his system didn't help his existing heart condition.




Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #35 on: June 30, 2008, 01:02:35 PM »

Offline NicaraguanFan

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It is pretty sad that a  person die during  a celebration, but police officers have to do what they have to do. At this point, we don't even know if police officers asked him to dump his beer/alcohol. Blame police officers for this is unfair, but I think nobody in this board is doing such thing.

On the other hand, not all the time they enforce the law... I  don't remember anyone asking players/staff/owners  to dump their cigars when they lit them up.

NF.
#18 is coming...

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2008, 01:19:48 PM »

Offline CelticsWhat35

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It is pretty sad that a  person die during  a celebration, but police officers have to do what they have to do. At this point, we don't even know if police officers asked him to dump his beer/alcohol. Blame police officers for this is unfair, but I think nobody in this board is doing such thing.

On the other hand, not all the time they enforce the law... I  don't remember anyone asking players/staff/owners  to dump their cigars when they lit them up.

NF.

I don't remember there being any correlation between excession cigar smoking and unruly behavior.  Also, I'm going to assume that if a law enforcement officer were to approach someone who lit up a victory cigar at The Garden, the person would've had enough sense to put it out, and not try to escape.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2008, 02:04:06 PM »

Offline BuckeyeCelt

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i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....

I think if you flee from the cops, you should be chased.  The police may use discretion in deciding whether to arrest you after that, but they should certainly chase you, assuming that such is reasonably possible, and there isn't another situation that needs their immediate attention.

I don't think all kids with open containers should be detained or arrested.  However, once you flee from the cops after they approach you, you're asking for trouble.

like i said "asking for trouble" and actually "getting trouble" are different things.....

and i have been in the situation to know that it could have gone down differently.....i have enough knucklehead friends to know that bad decisions are made ALL the time. and the police have chosen to acknowledge the stupid behavior for what it was.....heck, many of them have been there...and they can usually tell when there is a public threat or not...

that is why i think it was avoidable.

  Why couldn't the kid have avoided it by not running? Why blame the cops? And where does the accusation that the cops killed the kid come from? 

I'll take that a step further...why have an open container where they would be looking for open containers...

This reaction reminds me of my time at Ohio State...
The school would say, "Don't try and tear down the goalposts or you will get maced"...
My idiots roommate goes down and tries...comes home and says "I can't believe the cops maced me"...
WHAT???

---------------------

Another time there were signs all over campus..."Come to the riot after the game"

After the game a car was set fire...then the cops came in...the next day all the talk was "the cops started a riot"

I can't stand when stupid people cause the cops to have a bad name..

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2008, 03:20:58 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Being a member of Celticsblog with multiple family and friends in public service, especially in law enforcement, I have to say that the amount of disrespect being thrown in the direction of a group of officers who did nothing more than the job they are paid for is disconcerting.

Let's look at the facts.

The Celtics had just won a world championship and there were obvious orders given to officers in Boston to be on the alert for excessive celebrations and directions to cease celebrations from escalating into something that would be less than peaceful.

A 22 year old was walking with friends with open containers.

What exactly were these guys doing that attracted the attention of the officers in question? Yelling, screaming, walking in front of traffic, drinking openly? Do we know? Could there have been an even bigger crowd there that they might have been inciting? How old did the guys look? Did they appear to be underage? Not every 22 year old looks older than 21!

I haven't read anything on the situation but has any of this been brought into question?

The officers did their job and rightly approached the youth and he fled. Protocal dictates that the officers persue, apprehend, disarm and restrain the subject and then ask questions. If while doing that the subject then had a coronary due to a preexisting condition then how is this in any way, shape, or form police officers killing someone during a celebration?

The subject fled, if he then resisted once he was apprehended then at that point any harm that came his way is fair game.

It's too bad he died. It should never have happened. But when a person with an arrest warrant issued for them walks around in public drinking openly in front of police officers flees when confronted and resists and arrest, anything that happens to that person is self inflicted in my book.

Next time he shouldn't be such an idiot.

I also wonder what the outstanding warrant was for. Was it a simple bench warrant for non appearance, for traffic violations with unpaid tickets or was he a felon?

Show a little respect for the men in blue. They tend to be the good guys.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2008, 05:55:04 PM »

Offline mzpanther

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It seems to me that a lot of the discussion thus far has been whether or not the BPD were justified in A) approaching a man for an open container after the game and/or B) apprehending him after he attempted to flee.

This can be debated. Personally, I don't think enough is known to judge whether or not the BPD was justified in approaching/arresting him. Certainly, Police use discretion all the time and I have not heard enough of the facts to know if their actions were appropriate.

The real issue to me here is what happened after the arrest and if excessive force was used to make the arrest. I do not trust that the BPD will conduct an completely transparent investigation when they have a clear interest in the outcome of the investigation. I suspect that this will all be hashed our many months later in court.

Fact remains out of the 3 recent deaths after celebrations, the Boston Police were directly involved in 2 of them. Fairly or unfairly, this is the case and I don't blame people for calling into question the judgment of our law enforcement.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2008, 06:11:48 PM »

Offline BrickJames

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Given that I was shoulder blocked and hit with a wooden stick by BPD for merely giving a random fan a high five after the game, I tend to believe BPD used excessive force if someone with an open container fled from them.

They probably tazed him bro.
God bless and good night!


Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2008, 06:22:22 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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It seems to me that a lot of the discussion thus far has been whether or not the BPD were justified in A) approaching a man for an open container after the game and/or B) apprehending him after he attempted to flee.

This can be debated. Personally, I don't think enough is known to judge whether or not the BPD was justified in approaching/arresting him. Certainly, Police use discretion all the time and I have not heard enough of the facts to know if their actions were appropriate.
The real issue to me here is what happened after the arrest and if excessive force was used to make the arrest. I do not trust that the BPD will conduct an completely transparent investigation when they have a clear interest in the outcome of the investigation. I suspect that this will all be hashed our many months later in court.

Fact remains out of the 3 recent deaths after celebrations, the Boston Police were directly involved in 2 of them. Fairly or unfairly, this is the case and I don't blame people for calling into question the judgment of our law enforcement.
If you ever get into an accident with someone who has road rage and a cop is witnessing it but decides to walk away while the guy starts to pummel you ask yourself this:

Do you want police doing their job appropriately or not?

The debate isn't whether the police approaching the guy who was openly drinking in public was appropriate or not. It was. They were doing their job.

The debate is whether you want police to appropriately do their job all the time or just when the law that's being broken is harmless in your mind.

Many here see drinking in public as a harmless crime so the police are at fault. But it is a crime and the police can not indescriminately determine which crimes are worth addressing and which are not.

They decided to address this crime, probably because during shift report they got directions from their superiors to address these situations if the Celtics won. The subject fled instead of allowing the police to properly handle the situation.

For all we know they may have just confiscated the alcohol and let them on their way. We don't know because the subject fled. All other options are now out the window, the police have had their hands forced and the subject is in for a bad time.

Let's face it there are a lot of crimes that people perceive as harmless and that they we view police action against as overboard. Smoking pot, drinking in public, playing music excessively loud, speeding. There are lots more. But if police officers turn a cheek on these crimes what happens when one of these crimes leads to something worse.

Like someone smoking weed falling in front of a car that causes an accident. Someone drinking in public causing a fight that gets someone hurt or killed. Someone playing loud music keeping up an entire neighborhood who has to go to work in the morning. Someone speeding not seeing that kid crossing the street.

My guess is while you are looking over the mess caused by these harmless crimes the first words out of your mouth will be:

"Where's a cop when you need him?"

As for the BPD doing a proper investigation. All those TV shows that depict cops hating cops that are in Internal Affairs aren't far from the truth. IA usually does a very thorough job and hang a lot of bad cops out to dry. Good cops who make stupid mistakes too. Those guys in IA aren't very well liked.

I know, my cousin is one in the BPD. And he's the nicest guy you will ever meet. But guys in the field aren't usually very interested in talking to him, even over coffee at DD.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2008, 06:27:56 PM »

Offline Big Ticket

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This post seems to be getting eerily close to the type that get so easily spayed and or neutered on this forum.

Because I really know nothing outside of the basic details already covered, I'm not going to form any opinion on the matter.

I'll agree with one of the first point that RH made... most people in America are predisposed to not liking the police, or any authoritative figure for that matter.  I can only judge the police I've been in contact with, which is only a handful.  Some were extremely nice, others... not so much.  The type of people that become police is certainly one factor, and a stereotype I've heard before, and some of the stuff they see from day to day probably helps influence their attitude and actions. 

(I actually got pulled over 2 nights ago for a tail light that was out.  The cop was pretty nice and just gave me a warning, but he asked some strange questions I thought.  Upon looking at my license: "So how old are you?  Do you live nearby?  What street?"... then after running my license... "When were you last pulled over? (it was like a month ago) And where did that happen?"  All I could guess is that he may have thought the car was stolen - it was my girlfriends car, she was in the passenger seat, but couldn't find the registration, but when she offered up her license as well he said 'no need'.)

The one thing I will say about the police is that, on the whole, they may be the worst drivers on the road.  I honestly cannot remember the last time I saw a cop car use it's blinker to change lanes.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2008, 06:34:32 PM by Big Ticket »


"It ain't about me.  It's about us."  - KG, interview with John Thompson, 2005 All Star Game.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2008, 07:55:11 PM »

Offline dark_lord

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overall i dont like cops, but i am smart enough to listen and obey to their request.  if i am treated unfairly you deal with it after the incident (court, attorneys, etc), not during it.

the kid was an idiot for drinking in public, not following the request of the officer, then fleeing.

the cops are not responsible in this case with what info has been released thus far.

Re: Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2008, 08:05:52 PM »

Offline winsomme

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i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....

I think if you flee from the cops, you should be chased.  The police may use discretion in deciding whether to arrest you after that, but they should certainly chase you, assuming that such is reasonably possible, and there isn't another situation that needs their immediate attention.

I don't think all kids with open containers should be detained or arrested.  However, once you flee from the cops after they approach you, you're asking for trouble.

like i said "asking for trouble" and actually "getting trouble" are different things.....

and i have been in the situation to know that it could have gone down differently.....i have enough knucklehead friends to know that bad decisions are made ALL the time. and the police have chosen to acknowledge the stupid behavior for what it was.....heck, many of them have been there...and they can usually tell when there is a public threat or not...

that is why i think it was avoidable.

  Why couldn't the kid have avoided it by not running? Why blame the cops? And where does the accusation that the cops killed the kid come from? 

one doesn't negate the other...

as for using the word "killed", maybe that is the wrong term....especially from a legal standpoint.

but my feelings about the matter start before any of the resisting arrest and subduing began. obviously the thing spiraled out of control when the kid ran, buti have seen situations like these handled much differently by police....especially on what should be a celebratory evening, and that is why IMO this whole thing was avoidable.