Investigation launched into death of Celtics fan

[rondohondo]

The metro this morning said in their article the kid had a "previous heart condition and an outstanding warrant for his arrest."

There you go.  More facts.

I feel badly that the kid is dead.  However, he made a very poor decision.

We have a winner

[winsomme]

Is that Roy Hobbs they attorney speaking?

I have to agree with Winsomme, Unless he is putting someone else in danger on a night like that dump it out and move on.

What was his level of intoxication?  Was he a risk to himself or others?  How was he conducting himself?  What were the other circumstances in the area that night?

These are facts that need to be known to determine whether an arrest was appropriate.  From the very little I've heard on this subject, the kid had a preexisting heart condition, which in all likelihood led to his cardiac arrest.  Sad, to be sure, but I think labeling the officers' conduct as "sickening" is inappropriate until such time as more facts are known.

I understand that people hate the police.  However, I think it's wrong to imply some sort of misconduct without having a factual basis for doing so.  What you and winsomme are doing is blaming the cops for enforcing the law.  Without more facts, I'm not going to condemn the officers for doing their job.

who said anything about hating the police? now who's jumping to conclusions....

as for "enforcing the law", that is a total copout....the situation was avoidable. that's what makes it "sickening" for me...

I didn't say you hate the police.  However, the police in general aren't held in very high regard in this country any more.  People automatically are conditioned to assume the worst.

As for enforcing the law, how is that a cop-out?  The kid resisted arrest and fled from cops.  Personally, I want cops pursuing people who are fleeing from them 100% of the time.  While many of those people will be relatively innocent (guilty of misdemeanors and poor judgment), a certain percentage of those people will have fled for good reason.  I don't want cops overlooking such behavior just because the Celtics won a title.

well, i don't know if you'd feel the same way if it was someone close to you. the kid used poor judgement to run, but that doesn't make it okay.....

the fact that he had a warrant out for his arrest, most likely will dampen any outrage, but i still think the whole thing was avoidable. and that's what bothers me.

someone dying celebrating a sports event quickly jars you out of the celebration.....it was pretty hard to feel good about the Sox first WS when that girl died.

[winsomme]

anyway you look at this, it blows.....nobody should die celebrating a sporting event.

[Roy Hobbs]

well, i don't know if you'd feel the same way if it was someone close to you. the kid used poor judgement to run, but that doesn't make it okay.....

It doesn't make what okay?  The police pursuing somebody who is fleeing from them?  We have no idea if the force the police used was excessive, or whether the suspect was properly subdued.  We only know that he died, and that he had a pre-existing heart condition that may have led to his cardiac arrest.

Cops get to arrest people who flee from them.  That's what police *should* do.  I mean, imagine the outrage if the police chose not to pursue a fleeing suspect, and that person committed another crime later that night.  The media would be all over the cops for not doing their job.

Also, sometimes when a suspect is physically resistant, the police have to forcefully restrain the person.  We don't know if the cops acted properly here, but from what I've seen, there is nothing to suggest that they didn't.

someone dying celebrating a sports event quickly jars you out of the celebration.....it was pretty hard to feel good about the Sox first WS when that girl died.

Let's make one thing clear: this incident was nothing like Victoria Snelgrove, the Red Sox fan who died.  She was a complete innocent who died when struck in the eye by a pepper spray projectile fired into a crowd. 

This kid died presumably from a pre-existing heart condition after fleeing from police, possibly due to him having an outstanding arrest warrant.

[wdleehi]

Is that Roy Hobbs they attorney speaking?

I have to agree with Winsomme, Unless he is putting someone else in danger on a night like that dump it out and move on.

What was his level of intoxication?  Was he a risk to himself or others?  How was he conducting himself?  What were the other circumstances in the area that night?

These are facts that need to be known to determine whether an arrest was appropriate.  From the very little I've heard on this subject, the kid had a preexisting heart condition, which in all likelihood led to his cardiac arrest.  Sad, to be sure, but I think labeling the officers' conduct as "sickening" is inappropriate until such time as more facts are known.

I understand that people hate the police.  However, I think it's wrong to imply some sort of misconduct without having a factual basis for doing so.  What you and winsomme are doing is blaming the cops for enforcing the law.  Without more facts, I'm not going to condemn the officers for doing their job.

who said anything about hating the police? now who's jumping to conclusions....

as for "enforcing the law", that is a total copout....the situation was avoidable. that's what makes it "sickening" for me...

I didn't say you hate the police.  However, the police in general aren't held in very high regard in this country any more.  People automatically are conditioned to assume the worst.

As for enforcing the law, how is that a cop-out?  The kid resisted arrest and fled from cops.  Personally, I want cops pursuing people who are fleeing from them 100% of the time.  While many of those people will be relatively innocent (guilty of misdemeanors and poor judgment), a certain percentage of those people will have fled for good reason.  I don't want cops overlooking such behavior just because the Celtics won a title.

well, i don't know if you'd feel the same way if it was someone close to you. the kid used poor judgement to run, but that doesn't make it okay.....

the fact that he had a warrant out for his arrest, most likely will dampen any outrage, but i still think the whole thing was avoidable. and that's what bothers me.

someone dying celebrating a sports event quickly jars you out of the celebration.....it was pretty hard to feel good about the Sox first WS when that girl died.

What's not OK from what has been said so far?

He appeared to have an open alcoholic beverage.  Police are not going to look the other way when so many title celebrations have turned into riots in the country.


The guy flipped and ran.  Of course the Police are going to chase him.  (and apparently he ran because he was a wanted man)




Until I hear a report that says there was any crimes the police committed, I will believe that they were well within their rights and job duty.  


It is a shame that he lost his life.  

[PointGaurd]

To me the facts are important.  But it's more that the police were the only ones to kill someone that night when they are supposed to be there to protect! 

We don't have all the information, but for drinking beer in public, you just dump the beer, or you arrest the guy. 

I seriously think something has to be done to control the amount of power police officers have.

[winsomme]

well, i don't know if you'd feel the same way if it was someone close to you. the kid used poor judgement to run, but that doesn't make it okay.....

It doesn't make what okay?  The police pursuing somebody who is fleeing from them?  We have no idea if the force the police used was excessive, or whether the suspect was properly subdued.  We only know that he died, and that he had a pre-existing heart condition that may have led to his cardiac arrest.

Cops get to arrest people who flee from them.  Sometimes, when that fleeing person is physically resistant, they have to forcefully restrain the person.  We don't know if the cops acted properly here, but from what I've seen, there is nothing to suggest that they didn't.

someone dying celebrating a sports event quickly jars you out of the celebration.....it was pretty hard to feel good about the Sox first WS when that girl died.

Let's make one thing clear: this incident was nothing like Victoria Snelgrove, the Red Sox fan who died.  She was a complete innocent who died when struck in the eye by a pepper spray projectile fired into a crowd. 

This kid died presumably from a pre-existing heart condition after fleeing from police, possibly due to him having an outstanding arrest warrant.

you guys keep talking about "being within their rights".....i am not making a legal argument here.....i am pointing out that they approached the kid (according to THEIR report) for having an "open container"....not for being some kind of public menace....

whether they were "within their rights" or not, the situation was avoidable...

as for a connection to the Red Sox incident, the point i was making was that the death was avoidable and very sad...

[wdleehi]

well, i don't know if you'd feel the same way if it was someone close to you. the kid used poor judgement to run, but that doesn't make it okay.....

It doesn't make what okay?  The police pursuing somebody who is fleeing from them?  We have no idea if the force the police used was excessive, or whether the suspect was properly subdued.  We only know that he died, and that he had a pre-existing heart condition that may have led to his cardiac arrest.

Cops get to arrest people who flee from them.  Sometimes, when that fleeing person is physically resistant, they have to forcefully restrain the person.  We don't know if the cops acted properly here, but from what I've seen, there is nothing to suggest that they didn't.

someone dying celebrating a sports event quickly jars you out of the celebration.....it was pretty hard to feel good about the Sox first WS when that girl died.

Let's make one thing clear: this incident was nothing like Victoria Snelgrove, the Red Sox fan who died.  She was a complete innocent who died when struck in the eye by a pepper spray projectile fired into a crowd. 

This kid died presumably from a pre-existing heart condition after fleeing from police, possibly due to him having an outstanding arrest warrant.

you guys keep talking about "being within their rights".....i am not making a legal argument here.....i am pointing out that they approached the kid (according to THEIR report) for having an "open container"....not for being some kind of public menace....

whether they were "within their rights" or not, the situation was avoidable...

as for a connection to the Red Sox incident, the point i was making was that the death was avoidable and very sad...

You understand they are going to tighten such laws after a victory.  They don't want things turning ugly like it has happened so often in cities winning a title. 

There were not so many issues because most fans understood that. 

[Roy Hobbs]

We don't have all the information, but for drinking beer in public, you just dump the beer, or you arrest the guy. 

As others have said, maybe that's what the cops were going to do, before he took off running.

[Roy Hobbs]

i am pointing out that they approached the kid (according to THEIR report) for having an "open container"....not for being some kind of public menace....

whether they were "within their rights" or not, the situation was avoidable...

What do you want the police to do?  Totally ignore him drinking in public?

I'd be fine if the police had asked him to dump his beer, as many have suggested.  However, we have no idea if that would have happened, because the kid made the very poor decision to run.  At that point, in my opinion the cops had a duty to pursue.

Reading more on this story, the parents are suggesting that the cops left him passed out and unattended, or similarly, responded slowly when he was in medical distress.  The police deny that and say he was properly restrained and given immediate and proper medical attention.  I think those are the facts that are important here, not whether the cops should have overlooked this kid's law-breaking.

[boscel33]

The metro this morning said in their article the kid had a "previous heart condition and an outstanding warrant for his arrest."

There you go.  More facts.

I feel badly that the kid is dead.  However, he made a very poor decision.

Amen!

It another situation happened in Haverhill a few weeks back.  Police pulled a vehicle over, when the Officer approached, the car took off.  The Officer got back into his car and found the suspect car a few miles down the road wrapped around a pole, occupant(s) died. 

It's a simple thing, an Officer pulls you over or asks you to stop, you do it.  If you don't, then what are you tying to hide?  An innocent person will stop when an officer approaches.

If you want to use the word sickening, how about how a few people turned the celebration bad for the rest.  That's sickening.

[kgiessler]

I feel bad for the police on this one.

They do their job, and some drunk criminal commits another crime, followed by another crime and now people are saying things like: "the police were the only ones to kill someone that night".

Imagine if a police chase pursuing a criminal ended in the person crashing and dying and people said "The cops killed him!"

[kgiessler]

TP boscel for beating me to the logical way of looking at this.

[winsomme]

i am pointing out that they approached the kid (according to THEIR report) for having an "open container"....not for being some kind of public menace....

whether they were "within their rights" or not, the situation was avoidable...

What do you want the police to do?  Totally ignore him drinking in public?

I'd be fine if the police had asked him to dump his beer, as many have suggested.  However, we have no idea if that would have happened, because the kid made the very poor decision to run.  At that point, in my opinion the cops had a duty to pursue.

Reading more on this story, the parents are suggesting that the cops left him passed out and unattended, or similarly, responded slowly when he was in medical distress.  The police deny that and say he was properly restrained and given immediate and proper medical attention.  I think those are the facts that are important here, not whether the cops should have overlooked this kid's law-breaking.

well from my own experience with these situations, i have seen very reasonable handling by law enforcement....

i have been in plenty of situations where the police would have been well within their rights to start arresting people, but chose to simply handle the situation differently...

i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....


unless there was a clear threat to people's saftey, but the reports were that they only approached because they had "open containers"...

[Roy Hobbs]

i mean, unless you are suggesting that every kid suspected of drinking in public that dashes is chased down and arrested, i think you would agree that there is a great deal of discretion involved in handling these situations.....

I think if you flee from the cops, you should be chased.  The police may use discretion in deciding whether to arrest you after that, but they should certainly chase you, assuming that such is reasonably possible, and there isn't another situation that needs their immediate attention.

I don't think all kids with open containers should be detained or arrested.  However, once you flee from the cops after they approach you, you're asking for trouble.