the perfect coach

[winsomme]

I would love the Celtics to add an assistant coach to run the offense (just like they did for defense).  Someone that can smooth the edges and allow Doc to concentrate more on his strengths. 

Basketball is nothing like football where you have offensive and defensive coordinators.

Coach Thibodeau coached, taught and practiced the defense but come game time that team was almost all Doc's. I also think that one of Doc's strengths were writing up plays out of TO's both offensively and defensively. This wasthe coaching staff's first year with this group and my guess is that most of the rotation will be returning. Another year of familiarity and further exposure to the offensive and defensive systems and I expect an even more fluent team.

I expect all that whether Coach T comes back or not and I expect that if no one is added to the staff. Coach T gets a lot of well earned credit but way too much so. It wasn't his system, just a system he knew how to teach. He taught it and assisted during games but the defense, the offense and everything in between is Doc's on gameday.

Whether or not his was just "Doc's defense with better players" or not, it worked.  Tom Thibodeau had this team more effective running the defense.



What would be the problem if they did the same thing on offense?   

where's the need? i mean, what exactly do you want this new coach to do?

it's not like they don't have assistant coaches that help run practices....

Be in charge of the offense like Thibodeau is in charge of the defense.  See if someone with a more limited view and responsibility can increase the efficiency of the offense. 


If it works well for the defense, why not do the same thing for the offense?

i agree with the poster that mentioned your model being the NFL model. i can't think of one team in the NBA where the head coach isn't  the main man in terms of at least  managing the offense or the defense....and Doc's main strength is on offense, so i don't see why we would give that responsibility to someone else.

it's not like the NFL where the head coaches just don't have the time to implement the schemes.

an NBA coach has plenty of time in that regard, and Doc did a great job with the offense.....and it's not like running the offense is keeping him from other duties.....

and if you look at a lot of the playoff losses, some of the key problems were with second-chance points and transition defense.....but i wouldn't want to bring in another Asst Coach on those things. i want TT to work on them. just like i want Doc to work on the offensive problems....

When Larry Bird was coach, he let his assistants run the offense and defense. 


But who really cares what other teams are doing.  Doc gives the reigns of the offense over to another coach.  He can worry about the big picture and the players. 

well, i don't remember that about Larry, but there is a reason that you don't see it happening around the  league. having the head coach intimately involved in at least one end of the court HELPS them with chemistry/big picture issues....

where are you seeing Doc having time problems dealing with the "big picutre"?

[wdleehi]

I would love the Celtics to add an assistant coach to run the offense (just like they did for defense).  Someone that can smooth the edges and allow Doc to concentrate more on his strengths. 

Basketball is nothing like football where you have offensive and defensive coordinators.

Coach Thibodeau coached, taught and practiced the defense but come game time that team was almost all Doc's. I also think that one of Doc's strengths were writing up plays out of TO's both offensively and defensively. This wasthe coaching staff's first year with this group and my guess is that most of the rotation will be returning. Another year of familiarity and further exposure to the offensive and defensive systems and I expect an even more fluent team.

I expect all that whether Coach T comes back or not and I expect that if no one is added to the staff. Coach T gets a lot of well earned credit but way too much so. It wasn't his system, just a system he knew how to teach. He taught it and assisted during games but the defense, the offense and everything in between is Doc's on gameday.

Whether or not his was just "Doc's defense with better players" or not, it worked.  Tom Thibodeau had this team more effective running the defense.



What would be the problem if they did the same thing on offense?   

where's the need? i mean, what exactly do you want this new coach to do?

it's not like they don't have assistant coaches that help run practices....

Be in charge of the offense like Thibodeau is in charge of the defense.  See if someone with a more limited view and responsibility can increase the efficiency of the offense. 


If it works well for the defense, why not do the same thing for the offense?

Tell me exactly how you know it worked for the defense. How do you know it worked better because Thibodeau was there? The entire team turned over the year before Coach T got here and Danny Ainge and Doc Rivers have both admitted publically that Thibodeau assisted but was in no way solely responsible for the defensive end of this team. The new players and attitude of those players could have been the reason for the defensive turnaround and was in many ways.

Where do you get the idea that Doc turned over the entire defensive responsibility of this club over to Thibodeau when the GM and Head Coach publically say otherwise? Why does this team need another coach to come in and tell an NBA championship winning coach how to better run his offense? Exactly who is more qualified to coach these players better than the guy that has already coached them to a world championship?

I think the entire idea is silly.

Ok.  He was only up and yelling on the defensive end of things because he needed to stretch.  He has nothing to do with the fact the Celtics defense was light years ahead of where they were last year.  Much better then any KG lead defense.




Did I say Doc was uninvolved on the defense?  Did I say Doc would be uninvolved on offense?


Get past the extremes. 




Someone please tell me what the problem would it be if there was an offensive expert on the staff similar to the defensive expertise of Thibodeau?  How would that hurt the Celtics?


Or is this some instinctual defensive reaction to anything related to Doc. 

[nickagneta]

I would love the Celtics to add an assistant coach to run the offense (just like they did for defense).  Someone that can smooth the edges and allow Doc to concentrate more on his strengths. 

Basketball is nothing like football where you have offensive and defensive coordinators.

Coach Thibodeau coached, taught and practiced the defense but come game time that team was almost all Doc's. I also think that one of Doc's strengths were writing up plays out of TO's both offensively and defensively. This wasthe coaching staff's first year with this group and my guess is that most of the rotation will be returning. Another year of familiarity and further exposure to the offensive and defensive systems and I expect an even more fluent team.

I expect all that whether Coach T comes back or not and I expect that if no one is added to the staff. Coach T gets a lot of well earned credit but way too much so. It wasn't his system, just a system he knew how to teach. He taught it and assisted during games but the defense, the offense and everything in between is Doc's on gameday.

Whether or not his was just "Doc's defense with better players" or not, it worked.  Tom Thibodeau had this team more effective running the defense.



What would be the problem if they did the same thing on offense?   

where's the need? i mean, what exactly do you want this new coach to do?

it's not like they don't have assistant coaches that help run practices....

Be in charge of the offense like Thibodeau is in charge of the defense.  See if someone with a more limited view and responsibility can increase the efficiency of the offense. 


If it works well for the defense, why not do the same thing for the offense?

i agree with the poster that mentioned your model being the NFL model. i can't think of one team in the NBA where the head coach isn't  the main man in terms of at least  managing the offense or the defense....and Doc's main strength is on offense, so i don't see why we would give that responsibility to someone else.

it's not like the NFL where the head coaches just don't have the time to implement the schemes.

an NBA coach has plenty of time in that regard, and Doc did a great job with the offense.....and it's not like running the offense is keeping him from other duties.....

and if you look at a lot of the playoff losses, some of the key problems were with second-chance points and transition defense.....but i wouldn't want to bring in another Asst Coach on those things. i want TT to work on them. just like i want Doc to work on the offensive problems....

When Larry Bird was coach, he let his assistants run the offense and defense. 


But who really cares what other teams are doing.  Doc gives the reigns of the offense over to another coach.  He can worry about the big picture and the players. 

Exactly how many championships did Larry win coaching that way?

Exactly how many championships in basketball have been won working that way?

Zero?

Wd, let's face it, you still have major problems with this coach and want to suggest anything you can to further displace this coach from any credit he deserves for the job he has done. The offense doesn't need someone less qualified than Doc to run Doc's offense. The defense doesn't necessarilt need Coach T to run the defense for this team to succeed.

If you don't like Doc just say to dump him and get another coach. Who cares how bad it sounds if it's really how you feel and it's pretty obvious it is how you feel.

NBA championship winning coaches never, and I mean never, bring in other coaches to take responsibility away from himself after doing something that has already worked to the tune of a championship ring. The notion is absurd and ridiculous and if someone was recommending the same thing for Greg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Reilly or Phil Jackson or any other recent championship winning coach you would be calling them an idiot.

[wdleehi]

Exactly how many championships did Larry win coaching that way?

Exactly how many championships in basketball have been won working that way?

Zero?

Wd, let's face it, you still have major problems with this coach and want to suggest anything you can to further displace this coach from any credit he deserves for the job he has done. The offense doesn't need someone less qualified than Doc to run Doc's offense. The defense doesn't necessarilt need Coach T to run the defense for this team to succeed.

If you don't like Doc just say to dump him and get another coach. Who cares how bad it sounds if it's really how you feel and it's pretty obvious it is how you feel.

NBA championship winning coaches never, and I mean never, bring in other coaches to take responsibility away from himself after doing something that has already worked to the tune of a championship ring. The notion is absurd and ridiculous and if someone was recommending the same thing for Greg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Reilly or Phil Jackson or any other recent championship winning coach you would be calling them an idiot.

Hey Nick, why don't you stop trying to put words in my mouth and read what I wrote. 


Please tell me where I took a shot at Doc? 


Please explain to me what I said I would like to see them do would hurt the team? 




If you are not going to bother reading and actually think about what I am writing and just immediately make it about 'fire Doc' don't bother responding to my posts. 

[winsomme]

Exactly how many championships did Larry win coaching that way?

Exactly how many championships in basketball have been won working that way?

Zero?

Wd, let's face it, you still have major problems with this coach and want to suggest anything you can to further displace this coach from any credit he deserves for the job he has done. The offense doesn't need someone less qualified than Doc to run Doc's offense. The defense doesn't necessarilt need Coach T to run the defense for this team to succeed.

If you don't like Doc just say to dump him and get another coach. Who cares how bad it sounds if it's really how you feel and it's pretty obvious it is how you feel.

NBA championship winning coaches never, and I mean never, bring in other coaches to take responsibility away from himself after doing something that has already worked to the tune of a championship ring. The notion is absurd and ridiculous and if someone was recommending the same thing for Greg Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Reilly or Phil Jackson or any other recent championship winning coach you would be calling them an idiot.

Hey Nick, why don't you stop trying to put words in my mouth and read what I wrote. 


Please tell me where I took a shot at Doc? 


Please explain to me what I said I would like to see them do would hurt the team? 




If you are not going to bother reading and actually think about what I am writing and just immediately make it about 'fire Doc' don't bother responding to my posts. 

i think maybe it seems that the reason that you want Doc to not run the offense is because you don't think he is doing a good job at it. maybe that is more of  an "inferred/potentially implied" shot than an actual shot...

but if that is not the reason, i have yet to see where you have pointed out problems with these "other" areas that Doc would be better able to tend to that he can't tend to while ALSO running the offense...

and as for a reason why this could be damaging, i would point to the lack of this around the league. i think one of the things that was so good about the relationships between Doc and his players was because he was working so closely with them on the offense....

i see no reason to try and upset this relationship. and i guess i still don't see the need.

[nickagneta]

I read what you wrote. Now read what I wrote and get off your defensive high horse.

You wrote that you would like to see the Celtics get an offensive "expert" to run the Celtics offense so that Doc can concentrate more on his strengths. A thinking person knows that that means offense is not one of his strengths. That's what you are saying. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Doc's abilities.

You are also suggesting he do something that no one who has won a championship has ever done before.

I'm putting no words in you mouth. "Outcoaching Doc, so easy even a caveman can do it." It's been your sig for over a year. It speaks volumes for how you feel about his abilities and when you suggest there are "experts" available that know Doc's offense and how to run it better than he does, you are obviously making further statements to the effect that Doc doesn't necessarily know what he is doing.

People aren't dense. They can understand what is being said even when the exact words aren't being used.

You don't like the man as a coach. Fine. But during the summer after any of the last 10 coaches that won a championship won that championship if someone suggested that that coach hire a man to run that coaches offense my guess is that you would think that would be ridiculous. But because it's Doc you want us to believe that it's just a suggestion to help the team?

Whatever? Obviously I'm just a hard headed Doc apologist that thinks any suggestion about the Celtics coaching situation is a shot at Doc. My apologies. Your intentions had only the highest and best intentions. That's pretty obvious.

[wdleehi]

I read what you wrote. Now read what I wrote and get off your defensive high horse.

You wrote that you would like to see the Celtics get an offensive "expert" to run the Celtics offense so that Doc can concentrate more on his strengths. A thinking person knows that that means offense is not one of his strengths. That's what you are saying. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Doc's abilities.

You are also suggesting he do something that no one who has won a championship has ever done before.

I'm putting no words in you mouth. "Outcoaching Doc, so easy even a caveman can do it." It's been your sig for over a year. It speaks volumes for how you feel about his abilities and when you suggest there are "experts" available that know Doc's offense and how to run it better than he does, you are obviously making further statements to the effect that Doc doesn't necessarily know what he is doing.

People aren't dense. They can understand what is being said even when the exact words aren't being used.

You don't like the man as a coach. Fine. But during the summer after any of the last 10 coaches that won a championship won that championship if someone suggested that that coach hire a man to run that coaches offense my guess is that you would think that would be ridiculous. But because it's Doc you want us to believe that it's just a suggestion to help the team?

Whatever? Obviously I'm just a hard headed Doc apologist that thinks any suggestion about the Celtics coaching situation is a shot at Doc. My apologies. Your intentions had only the highest and best intentions. That's pretty obvious.

So basically you are allowing a Sig that I have had for a year and a half, everything I write about Doc or coaching must be anti-Doc.


So I guess the Celtics should bring back PJ, Cassell, Pollard, TA and waive all the rookies because why change the team at all. 


But thinking that a coach that is to offense that Thibodeau was to the defense, pure hate. 


Let me know when I have not put out exactly what I thought.  If I wanted Doc fired now, I would say it. 


But no, I have said elsewhere on this site that Doc has earned his next contract. 

[winsomme]

I read what you wrote. Now read what I wrote and get off your defensive high horse.

You wrote that you would like to see the Celtics get an offensive "expert" to run the Celtics offense so that Doc can concentrate more on his strengths. A thinking person knows that that means offense is not one of his strengths. That's what you are saying. That isn't exactly a ringing endorsement of Doc's abilities.

You are also suggesting he do something that no one who has won a championship has ever done before.

I'm putting no words in you mouth. "Outcoaching Doc, so easy even a caveman can do it." It's been your sig for over a year. It speaks volumes for how you feel about his abilities and when you suggest there are "experts" available that know Doc's offense and how to run it better than he does, you are obviously making further statements to the effect that Doc doesn't necessarily know what he is doing.

People aren't dense. They can understand what is being said even when the exact words aren't being used.

You don't like the man as a coach. Fine. But during the summer after any of the last 10 coaches that won a championship won that championship if someone suggested that that coach hire a man to run that coaches offense my guess is that you would think that would be ridiculous. But because it's Doc you want us to believe that it's just a suggestion to help the team?

Whatever? Obviously I'm just a hard headed Doc apologist that thinks any suggestion about the Celtics coaching situation is a shot at Doc. My apologies. Your intentions had only the highest and best intentions. That's pretty obvious.

So basically you are allowing a Sig that I have had for a year and a half, everything I write about Doc or coaching must be anti-Doc.


So I guess the Celtics should bring back PJ, Cassell, Pollard, TA and waive all the rookies because why change the team at all. 


But thinking that a coach that is to offense that Thibodeau was to the defense, pure hate. 


Let me know when I have not put out exactly what I thought.  If I wanted Doc fired now, I would say it. 


But no, I have said elsewhere on this site that Doc has earned his next contract. 

in regards to bringing everybody back....i'm definitely into that....why wouldn't you want to bring everybody back to give them another go at this?

and as for Doc coaching the offense, why wouldn't you want to give Doc the opportunity to increase the efficiency of the offense?

i could understand if you saw some other area that he wasn't tending to, but i have yet to see what that might be...

[cdif911]

heated thread... yeah Doc should not be relegated to being a cheerleader, he does a good job with the offense and with the defense set, even if TT left, I think he could handle it - our little boy has grown up, the training wheels are off, lets not put them back on

[celticmaestro]

i can't believe this thread got so heated. good debates though, i've given all involved a tp.

[2short]

We won the championship with Doc as coach so there you have it; he's the perfect coach for the team (until we start to lose).
I've knocked Doc since day 1 but much like KC Jones (sorry to say it) not the best coach but gets results.  Is Jerry Sloan a better coach, no doubt about it.  But didn't we just win it all............