Draft City/Bill Walker-overseas? (Merged)

[Mon]

I think it's a good decision - particularly because I'm convinced Walker is nowhere near ready to play in the NBA - but I see two problems:

- as others have stated, Walker doesn't look the kind of player who'll accept to be stashed overseas. OTH, if he accepts the deal, he'll show that he's fully determined and has character.

- the second problem I see is finding an international team that suits him. He's very raw and there's a risk he spends most of the time riding the bench. But he needs good coaching and good medical care. I think a good team in a bad league with a tradition of playing youngsters, like LeMans, is the ideal .

(I don't think a player like Walker would improve much in the D-League. They play too much and practice too little and players are more interested in casting themselves than in winning games. Walker doesn't need playing time against weak competition, he had plenty of that last years. He needs to improve his fundamentals and learn to play within himself and with the team. In the NBDL nothing would stop him of having more of those 0-12 games. Overseas, he would be benched after the 5 missed shots. Also, he'll be drilled more in individual fundamentals and team schemes, as well as he'll face harder competition. The fact that he won't be able to rely in his athleticism so much, hence having to learn to play smarter is also a plus.)

I don't think he is as raw as you say.  I believe he can play in the league when healthy.  Not a starter but by the end of the year I could see him getting to the end of the rotation.

[banner17]

I echo the thought that not only is it financially better for us if he's overseas versus being in the NBDL, but it will be better for him. I haven't been that impressed with the NBDL with regards to helping the Celtics that have gone there. Anyone have a list (it would be short) of Celtics that have played in the NBDL, while under contract to the C's?

Gerald Green
Gabe Puitt
Allen Ray
Brandon Wallace

[BUTerrier]

Here's the thing: would YOU go overseas if you were Bill Walker? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I'd force  Ainge's hand. If Ainge doesn't want to pay him, he can renounce his rights, and I guarantee you some other team will ante up some dough to get Walker.

It's one thing to suggest he play in the NBDL while rehabbing. It's quite another to ask him to go overseas for a year.

[Who]

Here's the thing: would YOU go overseas if you were Bill Walker? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I'd force  Ainge's hand. If Ainge doesn't want to pay him, he can renounce his rights, and I guarantee you some other team will ante up some dough to get Walker.

That's what I do if I were in his shoes and I would recommend him to do so I were in his agent's shoes. Force the issue and play in the NBA. Similar to Nichols last year.

[kozlodoev]

Here's the thing: would YOU go overseas if you were Bill Walker? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I'd force  Ainge's hand. If Ainge doesn't want to pay him, he can renounce his rights, and I guarantee you some other team will ante up some dough to get Walker.

It's one thing to suggest he play in the NBDL while rehabbing. It's quite another to ask him to go overseas for a year.

And the problem is? The schedule is lighter and the pay is likely better, given the exchange rate

[BudweiserCeltic]

Here's the thing: would YOU go overseas if you were Bill Walker? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I'd force  Ainge's hand. If Ainge doesn't want to pay him, he can renounce his rights, and I guarantee you some other team will ante up some dough to get Walker.

That's what I do if I were in his shoes and I would recommend him to do so I were in his agent's shoes. Force the issue and play in the NBA. Similar to Nichols last year.

I don't think Walker has any chance of forcing the Celtics hand... the Knicks were looking for people to make their team, they were a mess. They had a loaded roster, signed Nichols (non-guaranteed) and then they cut him.

In the Celtics, the message is clear... you sign with us, you get sent to the D-League. He's currently injured, the Celtics are in no hurry to make him sign a contract, they can retain his rights through the whole year. So no matter what situation unfolds, Walker is not going to play in the NBA this year, and there's little that he can do about it (unless he gets traded). If he gets traded, it won't be because he forced Danny into doing it, but because an opportunity arised that required Walker.

Walker, in the end, is better off just signing in Europe.

[timepiece33]

There is no reason for the Celtics to send Bill Walker to go overseas.  Let's say we sign Posey and either House/equivalent PG.  That leaves us with 13 players. 

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Paul Pierce
3. Ray Allen 
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Kendrick Perkins
6. James Posey
7. Eddie House
8. Leon Powe
9. J.R. Giddens
10. Glen Davis
11. Gabe Pruitt
12. Brian Scalabrine
13. Bill Walker

Do you really see us signing two other players to fill the roster?  I can see us signing a center.   

Even if we do, we can cut Scalabrine.  Walker should be our NBDL representative.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

There is no reason for the Celtics to send Bill Walker to go overseas.  Let's say we sign Posey and either House/equivalent PG.  That leaves us with 13 players. 

1. Kevin Garnett
2. Paul Pierce
3. Ray Allen 
4. Rajon Rondo
5. Kendrick Perkins
6. James Posey
7. Eddie House
8. Leon Powe
9. J.R. Giddens
10. Glen Davis
11. Gabe Pruitt
12. Brian Scalabrine
13. Bill Walker

Do you really see us signing two other players to fill the roster?  I can see us signing a center.   

Even if we do, we can cut Scalabrine.  Walker should be our NBDL representative.   

I think they also want to either resign Tony Allen, get another PG, or simply have roster flexibity. There IS a reason for doing it, as it has been explained quite a few times already. The Celtics won't have to pay for his salary times 2 (tax) for a player they won't use through the whole season. It gives them roster flexibility for late season pick-ups, etc.

[Brendan]

Why he would do it: Because as a second round pick he could be royally screwed by the C's if he p---es them off. But if he does as they like, he could make more money over seas and then make more money with a bigger contract then he'd get.

He's too good for the NBA-DL Euroleague is more competitive and more skill based.

[timepiece33]

I think they also want to either resign Tony Allen, get another PG, or simply have roster flexibity. There IS a reason for doing it, as it has been explained quite a few times already. The Celtics won't have to pay for his salary times 2 (tax) for a player they won't use through the whole season. It gives them roster flexibility for late season pick-ups, etc.

Using your 2 times argument, why on earth would the Celtics pay Tony Allen the equivalent of $5.5MM to be the 2nd swingman off the bench?   

How many minutes are there behind Pierce, Allen, and Posey? 

[Who]

Here's the thing: would YOU go overseas if you were Bill Walker? I mean, I know I wouldn't. I'd force  Ainge's hand. If Ainge doesn't want to pay him, he can renounce his rights, and I guarantee you some other team will ante up some dough to get Walker.

That's what I do if I were in his shoes and I would recommend him to do so I were in his agent's shoes. Force the issue and play in the NBA. Similar to Nichols last year.

I don't think Walker has any chance of forcing the Celtics hand... the Knicks were looking for people to make their team, they were a mess. They had a loaded roster, signed Nichols (non-guaranteed) and then they cut him.

In the Celtics, the message is clear... you sign with us, you get sent to the D-League. He's currently injured, the Celtics are in no hurry to make him sign a contract, they can retain his rights through the whole year. So no matter what situation unfolds, Walker is not going to play in the NBA this year, and there's little that he can do about it (unless he gets traded). If he gets traded, it won't be because he forced Danny into doing it, but because an opportunity arised that required Walker.

Walker, in the end, is better off just signing in Europe.

That is a very good point. It was the contract Nichols signed and the lack of a roster spot after the contract that made that situation. Walker wouldn't have that.

Yeah, Celtics hold pretty much all the cards in this situation. It'd be very tough for Walker to force the Celtics hand. Bill should ask politely and hope for the best.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think they also want to either resign Tony Allen, get another PG, or simply have roster flexibity. There IS a reason for doing it, as it has been explained quite a few times already. The Celtics won't have to pay for his salary times 2 (tax) for a player they won't use through the whole season. It gives them roster flexibility for late season pick-ups, etc.

Using your 2 times argument, why on earth would the Celtics pay Tony Allen the equivalent of $5.5MM to be the 2nd swingman off the bench?   

How many minutes are there behind Pierce, Allen, and Posey? 

There's a difference between a player that will actually play for them through the season, and can play multiple positions when needed, and a player who won't play at all taking a roster spot.

I could care less about what the tax implications are, but you asked for a reason to do it, and I explained why they would do it.

[timepiece33]

There's a difference between a player that will actually play for them through the season, and can play multiple positions when needed, and a player who won't play at all taking a roster spot.

I could care less about what the tax implications are, but you asked for a reason to do it, and I explained why they would do it.

I just pointed out the contradictory nature of the double salary comment. 

Personally, I believe a trained squirrel could do better than Tony Allen last year.  His turnover rate was alarming.

I don't believe that Wyc gives one care in the world about the tax implications whether that comes to Walker or Allen.  If they didn't want Walker, they wouldn't have paid money for him.   

[BudweiserCeltic]

There's a difference between a player that will actually play for them through the season, and can play multiple positions when needed, and a player who won't play at all taking a roster spot.

I could care less about what the tax implications are, but you asked for a reason to do it, and I explained why they would do it.

I just pointed out the contradictory nature of the double salary comment. 

Personally, I believe a trained squirrel could do better than Tony Allen last year.  His turnover rate was alarming.

I don't believe that Wyc gives one care in the world about the tax implications whether that comes to Walker or Allen.  If they didn't want Walker, they wouldn't have paid money for him.   

Tony is playing out of position, coming of a horrible knee injury... he should be much better this year, hopefully playing more at his natural position. His turnover rate more than doubled when he played PG instead of SG. But there's a ton of value in having Tony around capable of running the point, even as bad as he is.

It's not about not wanting Walker, it's about him not having a role in this current team this year. They want him for next year and on. And I believe it's more about roster flexibility than anything else. The tax thing is just a bonus.

[timepiece33]

Tony is playing out of position, coming of a horrible knee injury... he should be much better this year, hopefully playing more at his natural position. His turnover rate more than doubled when he played PG instead of SG. But there's a ton of value in having Tony around capable of running the point, even as bad as he is.

Tony Allen at the PG is a decision that no GM in his right mind would make.  The guy has absolutely no value if he runs the point.  He is a SG and we have viable replacements on the roster. 

Maybe we can trade him for that center in S/T. 

It's not about not wanting Walker, it's about him not having a role in this current team this year. They want him for next year and on. And I believe it's more about roster flexibility than anything else. The tax thing is just a bonus.

If they can find a spot for him, great.  If not, they can easily place him as the final spot on the roster and have him play in the NBDL.  I simply don't see the final spot as that big of a deal either way.