The get to know J.R. Giddens thread.

[cdif911]

lobofan, never post again, you will have the best TP post ratio ever - but really thanks for the insight, makes me more excited about having him - sounds like Tony Allen with a jumpshot, very good stuff

[Edgar]

I just can't get over shooting worse than 60% from the line as a 23 year old.  How many good NBA 2-guards shot worse than 70% from the line, never mind 60%.  So bad.

well

Rondo isnt Larry
He will live and learn

[libermaniac]

Don't get to know Giddens too well... I don't think he stays a Celtics for very long. I'd be shocked if he wasn't moved in the next week. Just my crazy thoughts though

Why would Danny take a guy that was projected to go later in the second round and then try to trade him?  I could see that being Danny's goal with Walker (who might have been projected to go higher), but not Giddens.  Currently, there isn't enough perceived value in Giddens.  This is one where Danny thinks he knows something that other GMs don't about Giddens - and I agree.  Giddens is for real!

Coincidentally, I don't think he's shopping Walker either, but it would make more sense with him.

[libermaniac]

Ok, so I am one happy camper!  I've been touting Giddens for weeks now:

I honestly believe he will be one of the biggest draft steals this year ... I hope he's our draft steal!

http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=64&topic=20100.msg316434#msg316434

I better be right! 

[Last Train]

Don't get to know Giddens too well... I don't think he stays a Celtics for very long. I'd be shocked if he wasn't moved in the next week. Just my crazy thoughts though

Not a chance. He wouldn't reach for a guy just to trade him. If the goal was to trade, he would have picked someone that was projected higher.

[zerophase]

http://www.nba.com/celtics/playoffs2008/playoffs-postups.html

he talks a good talk... listen to the audio archive.

[Trifecta]

Don't get to know Giddens too well... I don't think he stays a Celtics for very long. I'd be shocked if he wasn't moved in the next week. Just my crazy thoughts though

Not a chance. He wouldn't reach for a guy just to trade him. If the goal was to trade, he would have picked someone that was projected higher.

Not true, Danny could've known that some other team wanted JR so he snagged him with the idea the other team would want to trade for him.

[cmoney]

I just can't get over shooting worse than 60% from the line as a 23 year old.  How many good NBA 2-guards shot worse than 70% from the line, never mind 60%.  So bad.

well

Rondo isnt Larry
He will live and learn

I can't believe the amount of kool aid drinking around here.  He's a celtic so now he'll live and learn.  I doubt he'll learn much. 

Someone just said Tony Allen with a jumpshot.  Everything about TA's #s indicate a much better shooter.  How can a 30% 3ball 60% FTs be a good jump shooter?  It's so far outside of normal correlations. 

Don't get me wrong.. I'm liking what I'm hearing from these Lobos fans and I adore guards who pound the glass.  I'm definitely intrigued.  Let's just not get out of hand.  He's a 23 year old with awful shooting #s.  He might improve but I doubt much.  But if he pounds the glass and attacks the rim and plays solid wing defense I'll be a fan. 

[libermaniac]

I just can't get over shooting worse than 60% from the line as a 23 year old.  How many good NBA 2-guards shot worse than 70% from the line, never mind 60%.  So bad.

well

Rondo isnt Larry
He will live and learn

I can't believe the amount of kool aid drinking around here.  He's a celtic so now he'll live and learn.  I doubt he'll learn much. 

Someone just said Tony Allen with a jumpshot.  Everything about TA's #s indicate a much better shooter.  How can a 30% 3ball 60% FTs be a good jump shooter?  It's so far outside of normal correlations. 

Don't get me wrong.. I'm liking what I'm hearing from these Lobos fans and I adore guards who pound the glass.  I'm definitely intrigued.  Let's just not get out of hand.  He's a 23 year old with awful shooting #s.  He might improve but I doubt much.  But if he pounds the glass and attacks the rim and plays solid wing defense I'll be a fan. 

He doesn't have awful shooting numbers (beside the FT's which ARE awful). Last year he shot 51.6% from the field and 33% from 3 point range (which isn't awful).  Eddie House shot 36.6% from 3 point range in his college career.  JJ Reddick shot 39.9%.  Also, keep in mind that Giddens was THE MAN on his team, and was constantly drawing double coverage, etc..  It's not like he was sitting there wide open.  He's not a great shooter, but he's more of a scorer like Pierce.  He uses upfakes, starts/stops, drives, body-positioning, to get to the basket and score.

This guy truly is a lottery talent.  The reason he was projected so late is character issues, which he has appeared to turn around.  But, only time will tell on that.  Not too much risk on his talent.

[zerophase]

yea idk.. it just sounded too good to be true. then again.. all the interviews with the big 3 this year sounded too good to be true.

[Last Train]

Not true, Danny could've known that some other team wanted JR so he snagged him with the idea the other team would want to trade for him.

Okay, I will concede it is possible. But it is very unlikely. This is Danny liking someone more than most people like him, and usually that works out well.

Also, as for shooting. Watch one game of Giddens and I dare you to say Tony Allen is a better shooter. JR's free throws need work, but he shoots really well from the field and just fine from 3.

[bdm860]

I just can't get over shooting worse than 60% from the line as a 23 year old.  How many good NBA 2-guards shot worse than 70% from the line, never mind 60%.  So bad.

Walker,

I do love his rebounding.  But the FT% just can't be overlooked.  As a 23 year old, it points to serious problems.  It basically means you can't shoot (it's worse than Rondo for crying out loud).  And/or he doesn't/won't work on it, as if he had a great shooter within him, coaches would have corrected this by now.  It's just so [dang]ing.

We're going to regret passing on CDR/Chalmers.. I'll bet good money on it. 

Rondo was 21 last year.  Giddens is 23.  He's already had a ton of time to fix his shot.  Ain't happenin'.

Man cmoney, you're really hating on this guy just based on free throw shooting (although it sounds like your warmed up a little as the night progressed).  Check out these NBA wings:

Bruce Bowen - 57.5% career
Bonzi Wells - 69.7% career
Trevor Ariza - 64.5% career
Ruben Patterson - 64.1% career
Jason Richardson - 70.1% career, but only 2 of his 7 seasons has he shot over 70% from the line

Deshawn Stevenson - shot 55.4% at age 23, but shot 79.7% this last season at age 26.
Gerald Wallace - shot 61.4% at age 23, shot 69.1% at age 24, and shot 73.1% at age 25. Don't tell me that you can't improve your FT% after age 23.

You wouldn't gladly draft any of these players with the 30th pick in the draft (based on skill, not talking about other issues Bonzi and Ruben), or would you rather have drafted good free throw shooters like Troy Bell, Joe Forte, Luke Jackson, Allan Ray, JJ Redick, William Avery, Trajan Langdon...

[cmoney]

lib,

I'm not saying he won't be a good player.  I'm just stating he's not a very good shooter.  <60% FTs and 33% 3pt shooting is an indicator of a bad shooter.  33% is NOT good, and I have no idea why you're comparing it to 37% and 40% like they're close or something.   Like I said previously, I'm impressed his TS% is as high as it is given his weak shooting metrics.  That indicates to me he does a good job of getting to the basket.  I'm fine with that.  All I'm saying is let's not go calling him TA with a jumpshot, because there's no real sign of a jumpshot.

bd,

you're kind of cherry picking.  I'm going to ignore Bruce Bowen because he's not a typical wing and is an extremely rare kind of guy.  Undrafted, largely unskilled save for defense, gets a few shots, realizes he needs at least some offense and masters a very particular shot.. the corner 3.  He sucks from literally everywhere else on the floor. 

Of the other guys, exactly TWO are good shooters:  J-Rich and DeShawn Stevenson.  The rest aren't good shooters by any means.  And this is from your nice little cherry picked subset.  For every guy like DeShawn who realized he had to work at it to stay in this league, there are a slew of guys who don't improve much.

All I'm saying is:  chances are he's not a good jump shooter, nor will he become one.  There's a chance, but from a pure probabilities standpoint, I wouldn't put money on it.  I hope he does.

Regardless, he has shown an ability to score with relatively good efficiency (56% TS%).  So in spite of this, he's got some skills.  I'm just not banking on great shooting skills anytime soon.  And I think CDR was a much more proven player who projects to be better in the NBA.  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but just keep in mind it's the draft and the % of picks that pan out are pretty low. 

[zerophase]

lib,

I'm not saying he won't be a good player.  I'm just stating he's not a very good shooter.  <60% FTs and 33% 3pt shooting is an indicator of a bad shooter.  33% is NOT good, and I have no idea why you're comparing it to 37% and 40% like they're close or something.   Like I said previously, I'm impressed his TS% is as high as it is given his weak shooting metrics.  That indicates to me he does a good job of getting to the basket.  I'm fine with that.  All I'm saying is let's not go calling him TA with a jumpshot, because there's no real sign of a jumpshot.

bd,

you're kind of cherry picking.  I'm going to ignore Bruce Bowen because he's not a typical wing and is an extremely rare kind of guy.  Undrafted, largely unskilled save for defense, gets a few shots, realizes he needs at least some offense and masters a very particular shot.. the corner 3.  He sucks from literally everywhere else on the floor. 

Of the other guys, exactly TWO are good shooters:  J-Rich and DeShawn Stevenson.  The rest aren't good shooters by any means.  And this is from your nice little cherry picked subset.  For every guy like DeShawn who realized he had to work at it to stay in this league, there are a slew of guys who don't improve much.

All I'm saying is:  chances are he's not a good jump shooter, nor will he become one.  There's a chance, but from a pure probabilities standpoint, I wouldn't put money on it.  I hope he does.

Regardless, he has shown an ability to score with relatively good efficiency (56% TS%).  So in spite of this, he's got some skills.  I'm just not banking on great shooting skills anytime soon.  And I think CDR was a much more proven player who projects to be better in the NBA.  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but just keep in mind it's the draft and the % of picks that pan out are pretty low. 

the wizards have one of the best shooting coaches in the league if not the best. its much like us having cliff. thats the only reason why steve got better, which is through good coaching. we don't have that.

[bdm860]

lib,

I'm not saying he won't be a good player.  I'm just stating he's not a very good shooter.  <60% FTs and 33% 3pt shooting is an indicator of a bad shooter.  33% is NOT good, and I have no idea why you're comparing it to 37% and 40% like they're close or something.   Like I said previously, I'm impressed his TS% is as high as it is given his weak shooting metrics.  That indicates to me he does a good job of getting to the basket.  I'm fine with that.  All I'm saying is let's not go calling him TA with a jumpshot, because there's no real sign of a jumpshot.

bd,

you're kind of cherry picking.  I'm going to ignore Bruce Bowen because he's not a typical wing and is an extremely rare kind of guy.  Undrafted, largely unskilled save for defense, gets a few shots, realizes he needs at least some offense and masters a very particular shot.. the corner 3.  He sucks from literally everywhere else on the floor. 

Of the other guys, exactly TWO are good shooters:  J-Rich and DeShawn Stevenson.  The rest aren't good shooters by any means.  And this is from your nice little cherry picked subset.  For every guy like DeShawn who realized he had to work at it to stay in this league, there are a slew of guys who don't improve much.

All I'm saying is:  chances are he's not a good jump shooter, nor will he become one.  There's a chance, but from a pure probabilities standpoint, I wouldn't put money on it.  I hope he does.

Regardless, he has shown an ability to score with relatively good efficiency (56% TS%).  So in spite of this, he's got some skills.  I'm just not banking on great shooting skills anytime soon.  And I think CDR was a much more proven player who projects to be better in the NBA.  Of course I hope I'm wrong, but just keep in mind it's the draft and the % of picks that pan out are pretty low. 

Cherry picking?  We must have different definitions of what that means.  Pointing out legitimate examples of why I disagree with your opinion is not cherry picking.

It's like if I said your boys CDR and Mario Chalmers are now gauranteed to suck, cuz if you're not a first round pick, you're not good enough to play in the NBA.  If you're dumb enough to enter the NBA draft and not get picked in the first round you must be "a headcase" and "probably doesn't like working" and have "serious problems" (all soundbites from you on Giddens because he's not a good shooter). And then if you replied that is not the case, just look at Bruce Bowen, Gilbert Arenas, Carlos Boozer, Ben Wallace, Nick Van Exel, Monta Ellis, etc., that wouldn't be cherry picking either, it would just be pointing out good examples of how my argument might have flaws.