Yikes... Ray frustrated with Doc?

[ma11l]

I understand that this has been our rotation all year, Ray starting the second and fourth quarters with the bench then getting rest as Pierce comes in and plays with them.  However last night there was absolutely no need to take him out.  He was by far our best player out there.  He was showing no signs of tiring whatsoever.  When one of the best shooters in the history of the game is in a zone like that the last thing you can do is take him out and sit him, even if it is for just a few minutes.  The worst part is that for whatever reason Pierce was awful last night, in a way we subbed in our worst player on the floor for our best. 

Doc coached that game last night like it was a regular season game, instead of going for the kill in the fourth with the Lakers struggling and the Celts having a great opportunity to put the series away. 

[wdleehi]

I understand that this has been our rotation all year, Ray starting the second and fourth quarters with the bench then getting rest as Pierce comes in and plays with them.  However last night there was absolutely no need to take him out.  He was by far our best player out there.  He was showing no signs of tiring whatsoever.  When one of the best shooters in the history of the game is in a zone like that the last thing you can do is take him out and sit him, even if it is for just a few minutes.  The worst part is that for whatever reason Pierce was awful last night, in a way we subbed in our worst player on the floor for our best. 

Doc coached that game last night like it was a regular season game, instead of going for the kill in the fourth with the Lakers struggling and the Celts having a great opportunity to put the series away. 

I don't have an issue with him getting a little rest in the 4th.  The Celtics were still in it when he came back.


It was the lack of opportunities for him to make an offensive play that was bothersome. 

[ma11l]

I understand that this has been our rotation all year, Ray starting the second and fourth quarters with the bench then getting rest as Pierce comes in and plays with them.  However last night there was absolutely no need to take him out.  He was by far our best player out there.  He was showing no signs of tiring whatsoever.  When one of the best shooters in the history of the game is in a zone like that the last thing you can do is take him out and sit him, even if it is for just a few minutes.  The worst part is that for whatever reason Pierce was awful last night, in a way we subbed in our worst player on the floor for our best. 

Doc coached that game last night like it was a regular season game, instead of going for the kill in the fourth with the Lakers struggling and the Celts having a great opportunity to put the series away. 

I don't have an issue with him getting a little rest in the 4th.  The Celtics were still in it when he came back.


It was the lack of opportunities for him to make an offensive play that was bothersome. 

I agree with you.  He came back in with 8:56 left and only took two shots, both 3s.  That is on Doc and his teammates.  My point is that he missed both of them.  If he had stayed in I have to think that he makes at least one of them.  If he makes one of them I think that leads to the team and the coach making more of an effort to get the ball in his spots.

[spelz]

I feel it wasn't so much of Doc going away from Ray, but more of a coach wanting his team to attack the rim late in a game.  Can't say I really fault this tactic, you want to be aggresive at the end of a game, but Ray was extremely hot shooting and could have hit some open jumpers.

[ScoobyDoo]

Ray Allen was hot. Doc always says we ride the hot hand...

He should have run the offense through Ray until it proved it didn't work.

Personally, I probably would have tired to get Ray, 10-12 looks in the fourth...again...until he proved he was cooling down.

Why go to Pierce or KG when they are off?

But I've been a big Doc basher, couldn't understand alot of what he does over the eyars. But I'd have to say that overall, the last couple of series it finally feels that like what he does on rotations and such finally makes sense to me for the most part. I still have questions but I have alot less head scratchers now than before. I think like a player, he is also growing and learning. That makes sense.

Still, should have ridden Ray. I probably also wouldn't have left Ray alone on Kobe, I'd make someone besides Sasha or Kobe beat me down the stretch in last night's game...

[cordobes]

People complain about KG not taking it to the hoop. They complain about Pierce not attacking the rim. And that's what we tried to do in crunch time. You can't have it both ways. I think Doc made the right call.

[Vermont Green]

It is always funny how people see different things.  As I watched the game, it did not occur to me that the Celtics were "going away" from Ray.  They had a little run when they were making the effort to post up KG.  He was making shots but can also kick out to Ray or another shooter if that is how the defense plays it.  I am not sure that the Celtics were "going to" Ray even earlier in the game.  He was getting shots off good ball movement.  These were good Ray Allen shots.  If we tried to force it to Ray for shots, then the shots wouldn't have been as good.

As I was watching the game, I was yelling for them to keep the low post KG thing going.  You also have to remember that long shots mean long rebounds which lead to better shots on the other end.  Low post shots get you more fouls, more offensive rebounds, and less fast breaks.

I was disappointed too that the Celtics let this slip away.  They had a chance, they were right there, but if that is how Ray really feels then I think it is he who has the problem, not the team or the coach.  Everyone who has ever played knows what it is like to think what if I could have had the last shot, I know I would have made it.  And you always think you are open and someone else should have passed to you.

The real issue is that the Lakers put Kobe on Rondo and we didn't figure out what to do with that.  Eddie did OK but didn't really scare them with his shooting.  I want to see what Doc comes up with to counter that.

[silvershamrocker]

Wouldn't you be frustrated if you were the only one on your team that showed up offensively? If at the end of the game you were forced to go one on one with the best player in basketball with no help? If you were so close to going up 3-0 and virtually winning your first ring, one that you worked 12 years for, and you just missed it?

[Mr October]

Posting up KG was the right move. You can't rely on a jump shooter's legs staying sharp for 48 minutes. And the defense was trapping Ray when he had the ball.

He was just frustrated. End of story.

Pierce, however, played like garbage, forcing things in the 4th quarter.

[nickagneta]

As frustrated as I was about last night's game, and starting with Doc all the way down to the ball boy I was frustrated with about almost everything a Green Team player did last night, I am not all that bothered about it this morning.

Los Angeles has played three games of about the same quality of basketball, not that great. I think part of that are the match-up problems and the Celtics defense. LA may not play any better against the Celtics than they have through the first three games.

But Boston has gone from okay in one game  to stellar for 3 1/2 quarters and horrible for 1/2 a quarter in another, to extremely subpar for a third game. Yet they have won two games and loss a game in maybe their worst playoff performance this season in a game that was well within their reach of winning up until the very end.

Unless the Pierce, Perkins, and Rondo injuries severely hamper those three players abilities to perform to their normal level, this series is in the bag and over in 5 or 6.

Boston has been up and down, but for 5 straight games against Boston this year, the Lakers have looked bad. And that does not frustrate me. It gives me hope.

[hpantazo]

Doc made the right calls in the 4th. Ray missed two good looks for three, and there was no reason to force more, you had to go to the hoop. It was frustrating because we got plenty of good looks and didn't score. Eddie House had an open 15 ft jumper to tie the game that he missed, Pierce had a senseless charge, and screwed up a fast break as well, and KG missed many shots that he normally makes, not to mention the free throws we missed, and the open looks PJ Brown missed. All of those were high percentage opportunities, we just blew it.

[Discoflux]

Allen looked really sharp, made key shots, wasn't even hitting the inside of the rim, was running away from kobe off screens and popping. 

I agree they should have fed him more until he was full.

[Chief]

if he ment his teamates why mention the coaching staff two times? (coaching prespective/when my numbers called)

agree overall though, probley a non-issue.

I really don't see Ray in green for long. He'll win his ring this year and then get traded for a younger player.

If they get their ring, they get the chance to repeat unless someone knocks off Ainge's socks.

I think it will be Ainge doing the offering. As nice as this year has been, no-one wants 10-15 years of bad basketball because Danny did not move his pieces when they still had value. If Ray continues to play great basketball in these Finals, after the season might be the last time Ray Allen's name holds value. Face it, if Cleveland would have beat the C's, Ray's trade value would have been very little.


If I were Ainge I'd go talking to Donny Walsh. NY will be desperate to break up that team.

[winsomme]

[Ray] Allen was the hottest player on the court. After that 3-pointer early in the fourth quarter, he was 8-for-11 from the floor. He had made all five of his 3-pointers. He was carrying his team, and then for some reason Doc Rivers ripped the team out of Allen's hands and gave it back to Garnett and Pierce on nights they clearly didn't have it.

And Allen doesn't pretend to understand why.

"That's just where the offense went," he said. "I think from a coaching perspective, that's where the plays were directed. That's what we ran. For me, any time my number gets called, I'm going to be ready to shoot the ball."

So, someone asked Allen, wasn't your number called in the fourth quarter?

"What you saw is what we got," he said.

Interesting. That sounded very much like a player pointing a finger -- softly, nicely, but clearly -- at his head coach.

Link.

Roy, why did you title this thread "Yikes"?

this is a manufactured story based on some writer trying to drum up controversy at Finals time.......

there is no "Yikes" here...

[winsomme]

I think you and the writer of the article are reading way too much into Ray's words and body language, body language that you didn't even see but are taking for granted what happened on the words of a writer that already had a slanted view because of the article he was writing.

I'm not going to pretend to have been there. I wasn't. But I do believe there is a heck of a lot of reading between the lines going on here that might be dead wrong.

The Celtics offense went where it has always gone in the fourth. Do you expect it to be so different after 100 games of working so well?

How am I reading anything into anything?  I posted a link and asked a question.  No value judgment there at all.

Any insight on why our best player last night only got three shots in the fourth?  By your comments in another thread, you pointed out that Doc was calling plays for KG down the stretch, despite him having a terrible night shooting.  Might it have made sense to call some plays for Ray?

Also, over those 100 games where our fourth quarter offense "work[ed] so well", our team was the sixth worst team in the entire NBA in scoring in "clutch" situations (less than five minutes left, lead for either team of 5 points or less).  Our fourth quarter offense has struggled all year long when the game has been tight.

http://82games.com/CTSORT11.HTM

i agree with nick....and your commentary is seen in the title of the thread...

everything that was supposedly said was INFERRED by the writer.

"Ray doesn't pretend to understand why" they went away from him in the 4th??

ummm, what?

why would you present this as anything other than complete drivel....?