Pierce top 50?

[ma11l]

I think Paul is the one of the best pure scorers that the Celtics ever had.  He is probably #50

Heinsohn, who has seen just about them all, has said in the past that Paul Pierce is the best scorer in the history of the Celtics.  I know what many people think about Tommy, but you can't be a homer when discussing everyone within the whole team.  That's pretty high praise from an experienced Celtic.

[fairweatherfan06]

That's actually pretty debateable big Al.  Though I'd take Pierce over VC any day of the week. When Vince plays (like he cares) he is a heck of a player and early in his career he and Kobe where mentioned in the same breath, he just didn't hold up over time (not a lack of talent, a lack of desire).

And Big Ticket regarding peruse you got me, perhaps BROWSE was a better word. 

[Toine43]

To put this in perspective, the NBA was founded in 1946. That would make the 2008 NBA season the NBA's 62nd. Paul Pierce is a great player, but to say that there weren't 50 basketball players who came along in 62 years who were better than Paul Pierce is ridiculous. Before saying that, convince me that Pierce, who has never started an All-Star game, was consistently a top 5 player in the league throughout his career. Again, I love Paul, but I'm just being realistic.

[BASSTHUMPER]

capt p in the top ten~

[crownsy]

To put this in perspective, the NBA was founded in 1946. That would make the 2008 NBA season the NBA's 62nd. Paul Pierce is a great player, but to say that there weren't 50 basketball players who came along in 62 years who were better than Paul Pierce is ridiculous. Before saying that, convince me that Pierce, who has never started an All-Star game, was consistently a top 5 player in the league throughout his career. Again, I love Paul, but I'm just being realistic.

I agree he's not top 50 all time, but are we seriously going to go with all star appearances and starts?

this is an event where, just this year, D-wade made it as a starter due to votes despite having played, i believe 20 games total to that point. Shaq has made it numerous times lately when he was no where near a top center in  the league.

again, i agree with the principle of your post, i think 80-70 range is valid, with a chance to move up a bit depending on the next 4-5 years. certainly not top 50.

I'm not going to base a players place in history on a popularity vote.

[CelticsPrideKG]

This has been brought up at least once in this thread but didn't get much discussion.  Is anyone in disagreement that Garnett is a top 50 player of all-time?

[Roy Hobbs]

This has been brought up at least once in this thread but didn't get much discussion.  Is anyone in disagreement that Garnett is a top 50 player of all-time?

I'd put KG on there.  In terms of who could be replaced in the Top-50, Bill Walton is easy to drop off, just due to his injuries.  Robert Parish is a candidate, too.  I love the Chief, but he wasn't a guy who I think would have done a lot if he was the centerpiece of a team.

[bbc3341]

Garnett is top 50 already and where exactly he fits in debatable, I'd say if they win it all this year, he'll be considered in the top 15-20. Pierce is not in the top 50 right now, if they win it all my guess is he'd make a list of the top 75 and if he can play out his career in Boston with the team playing at a high level, he could be in that top 50 range.

[CelticsPrideKG]

This has been brought up at least once in this thread but didn't get much discussion.  Is anyone in disagreement that Garnett is a top 50 player of all-time?

I'd put KG on there.  In terms of who could be replaced in the Top-50, Bill Walton is easy to drop off, just due to his injuries.  Robert Parish is a candidate, too.  I love the Chief, but he wasn't a guy who I think would have done a lot if he was the centerpiece of a team.

I'm assuming his stock would rise considerably if the Celtics win this series . . . especially in combination with a Finals MVP Award - although I know most of the long-time diehards would prefer Paul to get it, which I wouldn't mind seeing either - of course this is all hypothetical, lets get 3 more wins first.

[Bahku]

In terms of ability, skills, stats, and what he's done for his franchise ... absolutely. I don't think top 50 should just be about how many championship teams a player has been on. How many Celtic players have singlehandedly carried their team for so long? Most other Celtics on this list were great players, obviously, but were made even greater and part of championship-caliber teams because of the other great talent they were teamed with. If Paul Pierce hadn't been here the last ten-plus years, there would have been nothing worth watching. I know I'm not alone when I say that the only reason I kept watching the Celtics after the Big Three were gone was Paul Pierce. KG should be on the list as well.

[Big Ticket]

This has been brought up at least once in this thread but didn't get much discussion.  Is anyone in disagreement that Garnett is a top 50 player of all-time?

KG is a lock for top 50 already, probably top 40.  That article reference earlier had him at #37, and now that he's merely MADE a finals (maybe win won) he might be a little higher.  The almost unanimous opinion of "experts" around the net and on TV say he's top 20 if they win it this year.


There are not a lot of players that can match:


    * NBA Most Valuable Player: 2004
    * NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2008
    * NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2003
    * 11-time NBA All-Star: 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    * 9-time All-NBA:
        * First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2008
        * Second Team: 2001, 2002, 2005
        * Third Team: 1999, 2007
    * 9-time All-Defensive:
        * First Team: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008
        * Second Team: 2006, 2007
    * NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1996
    * 4-time NBA regular-season leader, rebounds per game: 2004 (13.9), 2005 (13.5), 2006 (12.7), 2007 (12.
    * 2-time NBA regular-season leader, rebounds: 2004 (1,139), 2005 (1,108)
    * 5-time NBA regular-season leader, defensive rebounds: 2003 (858), 2004 (894), 2005 (861), 2006 (752), 2007 (792)
    * NBA regular-season leader, points: 2004 (1,987)
    * NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2004 (804)
    * J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award: 2006
    * Career triple-doubles (regular season): 17 (as of March 4, 2007)[40]
    * Career triple-doubles (post-season): 3 (as of 2006)
    * Only player in NBA history to:
        * average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists per game for 6 consecutive seasons. (1999–2005)
        * average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists per game for 9 consecutive seasons. (1998–2007)
        * reach at least 20,000 points, 11,000 rebounds, 4,000 assists, 1,350 steals, and 1,600 blocks in his playing career.
    * Career stats (regular season): 998 games, 20.4 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.6 bpg, 1.4 spg, .494 FG%, .284 3P%, .781 FT%
    * Career stats (post-season): 48 games, 22.2 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.8 bpg, 1.3 spg, .457 FG%, .333 3P%, .761 FT%


...and he's got 2-3 dominant years and 2-3 more respectable years to go after that (knock on wood).

[fireburner]

top 50 Celtic, yes
top 50 all time nba, not quite yet
top 50 current nba, yes

[kw10]

This has been brought up at least once in this thread but didn't get much discussion.  Is anyone in disagreement that Garnett is a top 50 player of all-time?

KG is a lock for top 50 already, probably top 40.  That article reference earlier had him at #37, and now that he's merely MADE a finals (maybe win won) he might be a little higher.  The almost unanimous opinion of "experts" around the net and on TV say he's top 20 if they win it this year.


There are not a lot of players that can match:


    * NBA Most Valuable Player: 2004
    * NBA Defensive Player of the Year: 2008
    * NBA All-Star Game MVP: 2003
    * 11-time NBA All-Star: 1997, 1998, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008
    * 9-time All-NBA:
        * First Team: 2000, 2003, 2004, 2008
        * Second Team: 2001, 2002, 2005
        * Third Team: 1999, 2007
    * 9-time All-Defensive:
        * First Team: 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008
        * Second Team: 2006, 2007
    * NBA All-Rookie Second Team: 1996
    * 4-time NBA regular-season leader, rebounds per game: 2004 (13.9), 2005 (13.5), 2006 (12.7), 2007 (12.
    * 2-time NBA regular-season leader, rebounds: 2004 (1,139), 2005 (1,108)
    * 5-time NBA regular-season leader, defensive rebounds: 2003 (858), 2004 (894), 2005 (861), 2006 (752), 2007 (792)
    * NBA regular-season leader, points: 2004 (1,987)
    * NBA regular-season leader, field goals made: 2004 (804)
    * J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award: 2006
    * Career triple-doubles (regular season): 17 (as of March 4, 2007)[40]
    * Career triple-doubles (post-season): 3 (as of 2006)
    * Only player in NBA history to:
        * average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 5 assists per game for 6 consecutive seasons. (1999–2005)
        * average at least 20 points, 10 rebounds, and 4 assists per game for 9 consecutive seasons. (1998–2007)
        * reach at least 20,000 points, 11,000 rebounds, 4,000 assists, 1,350 steals, and 1,600 blocks in his playing career.
    * Career stats (regular season): 998 games, 20.4 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 4.4 apg, 1.6 bpg, 1.4 spg, .494 FG%, .284 3P%, .781 FT%
    * Career stats (post-season): 48 games, 22.2 ppg, 13.3 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.8 bpg, 1.3 spg, .457 FG%, .333 3P%, .761 FT%


...and he's got 2-3 dominant years and 2-3 more respectable years to go after that (knock on wood).

Don't forget the only player to win four Player of the Month awards in one season during his MVP season. 

But I think KG definitely should be in top 50, and PP, while some might not think he is, but he should defeinitely be mentioned (I personally of course thinks he should be)

[Harris34]

I think when his career is all said and done, he'll be a top 10 small forward all time. I think he's a vastly underrated player because of the lack of "flash" in his game. He's going to be top 3-5 celtic of all time when his career is over if he plays for us to retirement.

These "top" lists are so tough to judge, because the game really has changed so much from decade to decade. Pierce is really starting to remind me of a better scoring Scottie Pippen now that he's playing such amazing defense. If you take the championships out of it (I know championships matter, but c'mon, he was with jordan), I think Pierce will end up being a better player than Pippen. What about Drexler? Will Pierce have a better career than Clyde the Glide?

[Roy Hobbs]

I think when his career is all said and done, he'll be a top 10 small forward all time.

Bird
Baylor
Dr. J
Havlicek (if you classify him as a small forward)
Rick Barry
Pippen
Lebron
James Worthy
Bernard King
Alex English

Some people classify Bob Pettit as a small forward, as well as George Gervin.  Anyway, that's Pierce's competition, and I think it's possible for him to settle in at ninth or tenth.

I think he's a vastly underrated player because of the lack of "flash" in his game. He's going to be top 3-5 celtic of all time when his career is over if he plays for us to retirement.

I'm not sure about that one:

Russell
Bird
Havlicek
Cousy
Cowens
McHale

I think no matter what, he goes no higher than #7.  There's no shame in that, though, because that puts him behind six clear-cut Hall of Famers.