Can the Lakers win a game under a total of 180 points?

[nickagneta]

As the old adage goes, defense wins championships, which is why I have thought that no matter how many games it took to do it the Celtics would win the championship. There was just not a team in the league this year who could beat the Celtics 4 out of 7 games by playing better defense than they could.

The Lakers idea of defense is to outscore their opponent. They just don't play defense the way Detroit, Cleveland and Boston do. But they are not going to outscore the Celtics 4 out of 7 games. For the Lakers to win this series they are going to have to win 1 or maybe 2 games where the total points scored in the game are around 180 or less.

Can they do that?

They have only played two games this postseason that the total points scored in the game has been less than 180. One of those was only because San Antonio scored 71 points. Not exactly a defensive gem of a game, but the Lakers have won both games.

As a matter of fact the Lakers only played in 2 games during the regular season where they played in games where 180 points or less were scored and they were 1-1 in those games.

Now contast that to the Celtics, who because of their defense, usually dictates the tempo of the game, limits offensive possessions for both teams and have played in 10 games in the postseason where 180 points or less were scored. They were 7-3. During the regular season the Celtics played in 23 of these type of games and went 18-5.

So let's review.

Total record in all games played where the total amount of points were 180 or less(regular and postseason combined):

Boston 25-8
Los Angeles 3-1

This doesn't bode well for this Lakers team. The Celtics held the Lakers to an average of 92.5 PPG this year. That's about 16 PPG less than what they average. And I really don't want to here about how they didn't have Gasol then because at the time of both games Bynum was playing some exceptional ball averaging about 12 points, 9.5 rebounds and 2 blocks per game. The addition of Gasol and the subtraction of Bynum are really the only difference between the Lakers team the Celtics played and the Lakers now.

So can the Lakers take apart this defense 4 out of seven games and score an average over 105 points per game? Or are they going to have to win some low scoring games and can they do it?

I just don't think the Lakers have it in them to win defensive dominated playoff games. They have no experience at it and no track record of success at it. They only have one truly good defensive player in their top 8 rotation.

I don't think they can do it and that's why I say the Celtics win in seven. But if the Celtics defense come out playing like they have the past 13 games, forget about it this could be a very, very short series with Celts winning in 4 or 5.

[oneofthesedays]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

[lon3lytoaster]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

[oneofthesedays]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

Manu is not their primary scorer.  He is the 3rd option behind Duncan and Parker, much like Ray Allen is your 3rd option behind KG and PP.  If Ray Allen suffers like he did for most of the playoffs and only scores around 10 ppg the Celtics will run into the same problem as the Spurs.  If anything the Celtics are easier to defend since they don't execute their offense nearly as well as the Spurs. 

The Spurs may not score a lot, but they also don't shoot a lot of shots.  They use up a lot of clock to generate very high percentage shots.  The Celtics don't execute their offense anywhere near as good.  At times they look completely disorganized, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  I also think they rely too much on ISO plays from PP/KG.  Rondo will sometimes just run around the key aimlessly and then end up throwing it out to PP/KG who bails them out with an ISO move.

The Lakers have been an extremely underrated defensive team in the playoffs.  If there is one thing Phil is good at it's disrupting the other team's flow.  With BOS, this should be easy enough to do since they are a poor offensive executing team.  The key is shutting down RA and making him a non factor like he was in the 1st two rounds.  If the Lakers do this and execute their offense well they will win in the exact same way they beat the Spurs.

[Jon]

I agree with a lot of what was stated above.

1) While the media has fallen in love with the flash of the Lakers and Kobe's star power, they quickly forget that the biggest key to the championship success is defense.  The Celtics have that, the Lakers don't.  Furthermore, while Kobe brings star power, Pierce, Garnett, and Allen aren't too shabby.

2) A lot of the Celtics' scoring woes have been a product of their opponents.  Against Atlanta they had trouble finishing around the basket due to their superior athleticism and length (LA's bigs have length, not athleticism).  Against Cleveland and Detroit, they arguably faced the two toughest defenses in the league outside of themselves.  They should have a far easier time against LA.  KG should dominate whoever guards him and whoever Radmanovic is guarding should also go off. 

3) A lot of hype has been made of Phil Jackson being able to out coach Doc Rivers.  That may be so, but don't underestimate the impact of Tom Thibodeau.  His defensive schemes could be the difference in this series. 

[nickagneta]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

Manu is not their primary scorer.  He is the 3rd option behind Duncan and Parker, much like Ray Allen is your 3rd option behind KG and PP.  If Ray Allen suffers like he did for most of the playoffs and only scores around 10 ppg the Celtics will run into the same problem as the Spurs.  If anything the Celtics are easier to defend since they don't execute their offense nearly as well as the Spurs. 

The Spurs may not score a lot, but they also don't shoot a lot of shots.  They use up a lot of clock to generate very high percentage shots.  The Celtics don't execute their offense anywhere near as good.  At times they look completely disorganized, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  I also think they rely too much on ISO plays from PP/KG.  Rondo will sometimes just run around the key aimlessly and then end up throwing it out to PP/KG who bails them out with an ISO move.

The Lakers have been an extremely underrated defensive team in the playoffs.  If there is one thing Phil is good at it's disrupting the other team's flow.  With BOS, this should be easy enough to do since they are a poor offensive executing team.  The key is shutting down RA and making him a non factor like he was in the 1st two rounds.  If the Lakers do this and execute their offense well they will win in the exact same way they beat the Spurs.

Exactly how many Celtic games have you watched?

The Celtics offense has struggled in the playoffs but they have also played some excellent defensive teams.

Detroit gave up an average of 89.1 PPG and held their opponents to 44% FG%
Cleveland gave up an average of 87.8 PPG and held their opponents to a FG% of 42.5%.
Even Atlanta held us to 99 PPG and 46% FG%.

Now compare those numbers to the defensive juggernauts that the Lakers have played thus far in the playoffs.

Denver held LA to 114 PPG and 48% shooting
Utah held their opponents to 99 PPG and 44.5% shooting
SA held their opponents to 95 PPG and 44.6% shooting.

And now the Lakers have to play the best defensive team not only in the regular season but also the playoffs because here are their stats:

Boston held their opponents to 87.3 PPG and 42.2% shooting.
While the Lakers underrated playoff defense has held opponents to 99.5 PPG and 43.8% shooting.

So to arbitrarily state that the Lakers will be able disrupt the Celtics offense because Jackson is so good at it kinda goes against what the stats are saying.

The Lakers played against mediocre playoff defenses at best and have not really been a defensive dynamo themselves. The Celtics have played against the best defensive teams besides themselves and won each series. And the Celtics offense hasn't really played all that well with a few players in bad slumps through most of the playoffs.

The Lakers defense will continue to allow the Celtics to score just like they have every other playoff opponent they played. Their real test will be trying to score against the best defense in the league in a type of game that they are not used to playing in.
 

[oneofthesedays]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

Manu is not their primary scorer.  He is the 3rd option behind Duncan and Parker, much like Ray Allen is your 3rd option behind KG and PP.  If Ray Allen suffers like he did for most of the playoffs and only scores around 10 ppg the Celtics will run into the same problem as the Spurs.  If anything the Celtics are easier to defend since they don't execute their offense nearly as well as the Spurs. 

The Spurs may not score a lot, but they also don't shoot a lot of shots.  They use up a lot of clock to generate very high percentage shots.  The Celtics don't execute their offense anywhere near as good.  At times they look completely disorganized, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  I also think they rely too much on ISO plays from PP/KG.  Rondo will sometimes just run around the key aimlessly and then end up throwing it out to PP/KG who bails them out with an ISO move.

The Lakers have been an extremely underrated defensive team in the playoffs.  If there is one thing Phil is good at it's disrupting the other team's flow.  With BOS, this should be easy enough to do since they are a poor offensive executing team.  The key is shutting down RA and making him a non factor like he was in the 1st two rounds.  If the Lakers do this and execute their offense well they will win in the exact same way they beat the Spurs.

Exactly how many Celtic games have you watched?

The Celtics offense has struggled in the playoffs but they have also played some excellent defensive teams.

Detroit gave up an average of 89.1 PPG and held their opponents to 44% FG%
Cleveland gave up an average of 87.8 PPG and held their opponents to a FG% of 42.5%.
Even Atlanta held us to 99 PPG and 46% FG%.

Now compare those numbers to the defensive juggernauts that the Lakers have played thus far in the playoffs.

Denver held LA to 114 PPG and 48% shooting
Utah held their opponents to 99 PPG and 44.5% shooting
SA held their opponents to 95 PPG and 44.6% shooting.

And now the Lakers have to play the best defensive team not only in the regular season but also the playoffs because here are their stats:

Boston held their opponents to 87.3 PPG and 42.2% shooting.
While the Lakers underrated playoff defense has held opponents to 99.5 PPG and 43.8% shooting.

So to arbitrarily state that the Lakers will be able to score against disrupt the Celtics offense because Jackson is so good at it kinda goes against what the stats are saying.

The Lakers played against mediocre playoff defenses at best and have not really been a defensive dynamo themselves. The Celtics have played against the best defensive teams besides themselves and won each series. And the Celtics offense hasn't really played all that well with a few players in bad slumps through most of the playoffs.

The Lakers defense will continue to allow the Celtics to score just like they have every other playoff opponent they played. Their real test will be trying to score against the best defense in the league in a type of game that they are not used to playing in.
 

  No way on this planet are the Spurs a mediocre defensive team, they are every bit as good as CLE or DET.  In fact their championship experience and superior coaching staff make them that much better IMHO.

If the Celtics had to go through SAS or NOH in the playoffs they would be fishing right now.  You are extremely fortunate you play in the LEASTERN conference where all but one or two teams are a complete joke.

Edit - no offensive language - wdleehi

[nickagneta]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

Manu is not their primary scorer.  He is the 3rd option behind Duncan and Parker, much like Ray Allen is your 3rd option behind KG and PP.  If Ray Allen suffers like he did for most of the playoffs and only scores around 10 ppg the Celtics will run into the same problem as the Spurs.  If anything the Celtics are easier to defend since they don't execute their offense nearly as well as the Spurs. 

The Spurs may not score a lot, but they also don't shoot a lot of shots.  They use up a lot of clock to generate very high percentage shots.  The Celtics don't execute their offense anywhere near as good.  At times they look completely disorganized, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  I also think they rely too much on ISO plays from PP/KG.  Rondo will sometimes just run around the key aimlessly and then end up throwing it out to PP/KG who bails them out with an ISO move.

The Lakers have been an extremely underrated defensive team in the playoffs.  If there is one thing Phil is good at it's disrupting the other team's flow.  With BOS, this should be easy enough to do since they are a poor offensive executing team.  The key is shutting down RA and making him a non factor like he was in the 1st two rounds.  If the Lakers do this and execute their offense well they will win in the exact same way they beat the Spurs.

Exactly how many Celtic games have you watched?

The Celtics offense has struggled in the playoffs but they have also played some excellent defensive teams.

Detroit gave up an average of 89.1 PPG and held their opponents to 44% FG%
Cleveland gave up an average of 87.8 PPG and held their opponents to a FG% of 42.5%.
Even Atlanta held us to 99 PPG and 46% FG%.

Now compare those numbers to the defensive juggernauts that the Lakers have played thus far in the playoffs.

Denver held LA to 114 PPG and 48% shooting
Utah held their opponents to 99 PPG and 44.5% shooting
SA held their opponents to 95 PPG and 44.6% shooting.

And now the Lakers have to play the best defensive team not only in the regular season but also the playoffs because here are their stats:

Boston held their opponents to 87.3 PPG and 42.2% shooting.
While the Lakers underrated playoff defense has held opponents to 99.5 PPG and 43.8% shooting.

So to arbitrarily state that the Lakers will be able to score against disrupt the Celtics offense because Jackson is so good at it kinda goes against what the stats are saying.

The Lakers played against mediocre playoff defenses at best and have not really been a defensive dynamo themselves. The Celtics have played against the best defensive teams besides themselves and won each series. And the Celtics offense hasn't really played all that well with a few players in bad slumps through most of the playoffs.

The Lakers defense will continue to allow the Celtics to score just like they have every other playoff opponent they played. Their real test will be trying to score against the best defense in the league in a type of game that they are not used to playing in.
 

I'm sorry but the city of San Antonio says **** you.  No way on this planet are the Spurs a mediocre defensive team, they are every bit as good as CLE or DET.  In fact their championship experience and superior coaching staff make them that much better IMHO.

Except the numbers haven't born out what San Antonio's claims may be this postseason.

[oneofthesedays]

Holding the Lakers to 90-100 pts is what you need to do to beat them.  Unfortunately, the Celtics also need to score that many points.......which they haven't really done much at all in the post season.  They will have the same problem as SAS unless RA/PP/KG all have good games. 

The key for the Lakers is to score around 100 pts, and keep the Celtics to their averages.

I don't think we'll have too much of a problem scoring. The Lakers defense isn't that spectacular and the only reason that the Lakers beat the Spurs so easily was because San Antonio's primary scorer, Manu, didn't show up for whatever reason and Timmy Duncan was forced to do pretty [dang] much everything.

The Celtics can lean on three different people on offense whether it's Pierce, Garnett, or Allen and if all three are doing their job and working with synergy, coupled with the team's defense that should probably add up to a Celtic victory.

Manu is not their primary scorer.  He is the 3rd option behind Duncan and Parker, much like Ray Allen is your 3rd option behind KG and PP.  If Ray Allen suffers like he did for most of the playoffs and only scores around 10 ppg the Celtics will run into the same problem as the Spurs.  If anything the Celtics are easier to defend since they don't execute their offense nearly as well as the Spurs. 

The Spurs may not score a lot, but they also don't shoot a lot of shots.  They use up a lot of clock to generate very high percentage shots.  The Celtics don't execute their offense anywhere near as good.  At times they look completely disorganized, running around like chickens with their heads cut off.  I also think they rely too much on ISO plays from PP/KG.  Rondo will sometimes just run around the key aimlessly and then end up throwing it out to PP/KG who bails them out with an ISO move.

The Lakers have been an extremely underrated defensive team in the playoffs.  If there is one thing Phil is good at it's disrupting the other team's flow.  With BOS, this should be easy enough to do since they are a poor offensive executing team.  The key is shutting down RA and making him a non factor like he was in the 1st two rounds.  If the Lakers do this and execute their offense well they will win in the exact same way they beat the Spurs.

Exactly how many Celtic games have you watched?

The Celtics offense has struggled in the playoffs but they have also played some excellent defensive teams.

Detroit gave up an average of 89.1 PPG and held their opponents to 44% FG%
Cleveland gave up an average of 87.8 PPG and held their opponents to a FG% of 42.5%.
Even Atlanta held us to 99 PPG and 46% FG%.

Now compare those numbers to the defensive juggernauts that the Lakers have played thus far in the playoffs.

Denver held LA to 114 PPG and 48% shooting
Utah held their opponents to 99 PPG and 44.5% shooting
SA held their opponents to 95 PPG and 44.6% shooting.

And now the Lakers have to play the best defensive team not only in the regular season but also the playoffs because here are their stats:

Boston held their opponents to 87.3 PPG and 42.2% shooting.
While the Lakers underrated playoff defense has held opponents to 99.5 PPG and 43.8% shooting.

So to arbitrarily state that the Lakers will be able to score against disrupt the Celtics offense because Jackson is so good at it kinda goes against what the stats are saying.

The Lakers played against mediocre playoff defenses at best and have not really been a defensive dynamo themselves. The Celtics have played against the best defensive teams besides themselves and won each series. And the Celtics offense hasn't really played all that well with a few players in bad slumps through most of the playoffs.

The Lakers defense will continue to allow the Celtics to score just like they have every other playoff opponent they played. Their real test will be trying to score against the best defense in the league in a type of game that they are not used to playing in.
 

No way on this planet are the Spurs a mediocre defensive team, they are every bit as good as CLE or DET.  In fact their championship experience and superior coaching staff make them that much better IMHO.

Except the numbers haven't born out what San Antonio's claims may be this postseason.

  The Spurs are the best team in the league at taking away your primary scoring options.  Against PHX they completely stopped Nash and shut down his effective P&R game with Amare.  Against NOH they took Peja out and forced CP3 to become a scorer.  Against LA they managed to keep Kobe off the foul line better than any team has ever done. 

[Jon]

Plus, Duncan's too post oriented to be as effective of a defender as Garnett.  Garnett can guard the post like Duncan and come out to the perimeter to make an impact.  Combine that with Perkins on the inside and Rondo pressuring the ball, and it's clear why the C's are the best defensive team in basketball without even getting into guys like Posey and Brown on the bench. 

[Discoflux]

Lakers beat the *purs twice under 180 pts last series. 

[nickagneta]

No need for the use of profanity or is there a need to be snarky.

I am truly sorry if you want to hang your hat on beating the Celtics on the fact that you beat a team that this entire season hasn't been anywhere near as effective defensively as the Celtics have been.

The Spurs are a good Western Conference defense. They do good things. But they are not putting anywhere near the defensive pressure on their opponents or did put on Los Angeles as the Celtics have or will.

LA scored only 94 and 91 points against Boston in the regular season and now they have to play a finely tuned playoff defense that is holding opponents to under 88 PPG and an even more incredible 83 PPG at home during the playoffs.

Say what you want about the Spurs but thinking that this year they are anywhere near as good a team defensively as Detroit, Cleveland, or Boston is just isn't true either statistically or by what I have seen with my eyes.

Maybe last year and in a couple of other years yes, but not this year. The Spurs just didn't have that good of a defensive post season this year and hence they are playing golf right now.

The Lakers are in for a fight they just have not seen this year. Good luck to them finding a way to beat this defense 4 out of 7 times. No one else has.

[nickagneta]

Lakers beat the *purs twice under 180 pts last series. 

Yes they did. They are now 3-1 this season in those types of games. The Celtics are now 25-8 in those types of games.

They are much more experienced at playing these types of games where every possession from first to last matters.

Los Angeles is not. Kobe all by himself gives away about 8-10 possessions a game from bad shots and turnovers. The Lakers will not be able to afford that against the Celtics.

This series is going to be exponentially more difficult than the experts or most Laker fans thinks it is.

I still respect the Lakers enough to say this series is going the distance. Kobe will win two games all by himself. But he'll need to win three games all by himself to win this series and against this defense it's not happening.

[Discoflux]

No need for the use of profanity or is there a need to be snarky.
---->>  I don't think you mean me, i don't roll like that.

I am truly sorry if you want to hang your hat on beating the Celtics on the fact that you beat a team that this entire season hasn't been anywhere near as effective defensively as the Celtics have been.
---- I look foward to watching the Lakers change your opinion on this matter.


The Spurs are a good Western Conference defense. They do good things. But they are not putting anywhere near the defensive pressure on their opponents or did put on Los Angeles as the Celtics have or will.

LA scored only 94 and 91 points against Boston in the regular season and now they have to play a finely tuned playoff defense that is holding opponents to under 88 PPG and an even more incredible 83 PPG at home during the playoffs.
----->> The Lakers right now are twice as good as the team you saw last.  

Say what you want about the Spurs but thinking that this year they are anywhere near as good a team defensively as Detroit, Cleveland, or Boston is just isn't true either statistically or by what I have seen with my eyes.

Maybe last year and in a couple of other years yes, but not this year. The Spurs just didn't have that good of a defensive post season this year and hence they are playing golf right now.
------>> *purs were basically the same team as last year's Champs.

The Lakers are in for a fight they just have not seen this year. Good luck to them finding a way to beat this defense 4 out of 7 times. No one else has.
------->>  Looking forward to it.  Try to watch with fresh eyes and let's see which team is the real deal.

[Jon]

I think it also bears mentioning that for all the darn praise the Lakers fans are giving the Spurs defense, the Celtics managed to beat them both times this season, the first time without Ray Allen and the second time without Kevin Garnett.

I've been a big Spurs fan for a long time, but they're not what they used to be.  At least not this year.