The lakers have one of the best benches in the nba??

[illantari]

I try to be as objective as possible when posting on an "enemy" site, but I have to go "homer" for a second.  This is what I keep hearing:

1.  We didn't beat Denver, they gave up.
2.  Utah didn't play any defense and were overrated.
3.  The Spurs are getting old and Manu was injured.
4.  The Celtics...............................?

When do the excuses end and the Lakers get a little credit?

I am not the type to predict who will win and I have no idea, but I think the team that wins deserves to win and not have their achievements tossed aside.

Do onto others as you would have done onto you.

Lakers fans have been throwing out our accomplishments for forever now- toss out the 66 wins because we're in the East, forget that we won the first two series because it took us 7 games each, forget that we're the Eastern Conference Champs because Billups was injured... I'm sure the C's would love some credit as well.

[CoachCowens]

Denver were better than Atlanta and Cleveland. Check the Nuggets record against Cleveland, Melo and Co. torch the Cavs. Detroit was better than Denver.

Utah and San Antonio were both better than Detroit and it's not close.

Question:  how can you cite to the Nuggets' record against Cleveland (2-0) as being conclusive, while ignoring Detroit's record against San Antonio (2-0)?

I added some more to my reasons for why I think Denver are better than Cleveland.

So I'll switch to the Spurs-Pistons.

(1) 2005 Finals. Pistons have gotten worse. Spurs have gotten better. The Spurs were already the better side. Rasheed is worse, Billups is worse, Ben Wallace is gone. Billups cannot defend Parker nearly as well as he could in 2005, and Parker is far superior nowadays.

(2) For my money the Spurs have the best backcourt in the NBA negating the Pistons normal advantage. Other matchups I like or Bowen vs Tayshaun. Bowen can defend Rip Hamilton much better than Tayshaun can defend Manu Ginobili. Rasheed Wallace rises to the occasion and plays some of his best stuff against Tim Duncan, but Timmy still has that. Coaching mismatch matters too. Detroit have a better bench but not a large enough advantage to counter the rest.

(3) The Spurs get more easy baskets than Detroit. They're better on the break, better at attacking and scoring in the paint, better at getting to the line. Spurs are better on the backboards. Defensively San Antonio are better too.

Sorry. TP for Roy. Either the records count for both or neither.

[pslakerfan]

I try to be as objective as possible when posting on an "enemy" site, but I have to go "homer" for a second.  This is what I keep hearing:

1.  We didn't beat Denver, they gave up.
2.  Utah didn't play any defense and were overrated.
3.  The Spurs are getting old and Manu was injured.
4.  The Celtics...............................?

When do the excuses end and the Lakers get a little credit?

I am not the type to predict who will win and I have no idea, but I think the team that wins deserves to win and not have their achievements tossed aside.

Do onto others as you would have done onto you.

Lakers fans have been throwing out our accomplishments for forever now- toss out the 66 wins because we're in the East, forget that we won the first two series because it took us 7 games each, forget that we're the Eastern Conference Champs because Billups was injured... I'm sure the C's would love some credit as well.

Apparently you missed the last line of my post......

[cordobes]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.

About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

[Who]

Denver were better than Atlanta and Cleveland. Check the Nuggets record against Cleveland, Melo and Co. torch the Cavs. Detroit was better than Denver.

Utah and San Antonio were both better than Detroit and it's not close.

Question:  how can you cite to the Nuggets' record against Cleveland (2-0) as being conclusive, while ignoring Detroit's record against San Antonio (2-0)?

I added some more to my reasons for why I think Denver are better than Cleveland.

So I'll switch to the Spurs-Pistons.

(1) 2005 Finals. Pistons have gotten worse. Spurs have gotten better. The Spurs were already the better side. Rasheed is worse, Billups is worse, Ben Wallace is gone. Billups cannot defend Parker nearly as well as he could in 2005, and Parker is far superior nowadays.

(2) For my money the Spurs have the best backcourt in the NBA negating the Pistons normal advantage. Other matchups I like or Bowen vs Tayshaun. Bowen can defend Rip Hamilton much better than Tayshaun can defend Manu Ginobili. Rasheed Wallace rises to the occasion and plays some of his best stuff against Tim Duncan, but Timmy still has that. Coaching mismatch matters too. Detroit have a better bench but not a large enough advantage to counter the rest.

(3) The Spurs get more easy baskets than Detroit. They're better on the break, better at attacking and scoring in the paint, better at getting to the line. Spurs are better on the backboards. Defensively San Antonio are better too.

Sorry. TP for Roy. Either the records count for both or neither.

Everything matters ..... you look at all the information available and evaluate it.

There's a lot more information on Detroit-San Antonio than Denver-Cleveland. Detroit Spurs played an NBA Finals with what is basically the same core of players. Detroit and San Antonio have both had prolonged playoff runs for years now against several different sides to offer more information. The Nuggets-Cavs play twice a season so there's less information, and neither side as had close to the playoff success of Detroit-San An.

The Nuggest two wins this season weren't the only reason I thought they were better as I added in another follow up post on the previous page. I just thought it was a nice polarizing picture of the situation - That Denver are better than Cleveland.

All The Details Matter

[oneofthesedays]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.

About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

Posey is awesome, the ultimate role player IMHO.

[CoachCowens]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.

About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

Tommy points are awarded for all kinds of reasons. Like answering Trivia questions, belonging to fantasy leagues, posting on the game thread when the Celtics win. and now you are getting one for calling fraud on laker fans.

Imagine if negative tommy points were still around. It would be all out war

[pslakerfan]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.


About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

You assume a Laker fan (new here) has a clue what Tommy Points are for and that they can be given to anyone.  I call this arrogance.

Actually DJ Mbenga is another big off of our bench (bigger than Turiaf actually), and as far as Posey being the best bench player from both teams?   If you say so..........

[Edgar]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.


About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

You assume a Laker fan (new here) has a clue what Tommy Points are for and that they can be given to anyone.  I call this arrogance.

Actually DJ Mbenga is another big off of our bench (bigger than Turiaf actually), and as far as Posey being the best bench player from both teams?   If you say so..........

actually I think it was sarcasm and not arrogance
No problem i dont like sarcasm myself.

Now I dont know,, this is a close series, people will have to learn to accept that IMHO
who know who will win
maybe we are right maybe we are not
i am starting to think we all just will know that after every single game

[cordobes]

Who gave the Laker fan 3 Tommy Points? 

Addressing the topic at hand, the Lakers have a good bench. They provide energy and offense. They've been productive all year.

How did I get those 3 Tommy Points, I have no idea?  I just assumed they accrue automatically as you post. Does that mean someone is actually giving them to me?  If so thanks.

Lakers fans are giving each other Tommy Points and then acting innocent. I call this fraud.


About the topic: their bench is pretty good, but not the best in the league. Too much mistake-prone guys and the only big they can play from the bench is Turiaf. Ours may not be so well-rounded, but Posey is clearly the best bench player from both teams IMHO.

You assume a Laker fan (new here) has a clue what Tommy Points are for and that they can be given to anyone.  I call this arrogance.

Actually DJ Mbenga is another big off of our bench (bigger than Turiaf actually), and as far as Posey being the best bench player from both teams?   If you say so..........

Chill out, it was only a joke. I apologize for being a failed comedian. 

DJ Mbenga will be very useful if a fight erupts. I recall him playing in the Denver series, but not after that. So, don't get me started about Scalabrine.

On Posey, I guess it depends on what one values most in a 6th player. Posey gives you stellar defense at various positions, clutch plays and a solid overall game. I prefer to have him than any of yours bench players (and I like Ariza a lot, but we'll see if he's in game shape), but, of course, maybe he wouldn't be so useful to the Lakers. Who do you consider the best bench player from both teams?

[CoachCowens]

Denver were better than Atlanta and Cleveland. Check the Nuggets record against Cleveland, Melo and Co. torch the Cavs. Detroit was better than Denver.

Utah and San Antonio were both better than Detroit and it's not close.

Question:  how can you cite to the Nuggets' record against Cleveland (2-0) as being conclusive, while ignoring Detroit's record against San Antonio (2-0)?

I added some more to my reasons for why I think Denver are better than Cleveland.

So I'll switch to the Spurs-Pistons.

(1) 2005 Finals. Pistons have gotten worse. Spurs have gotten better. The Spurs were already the better side. Rasheed is worse, Billups is worse, Ben Wallace is gone. Billups cannot defend Parker nearly as well as he could in 2005, and Parker is far superior nowadays.

(2) For my money the Spurs have the best backcourt in the NBA negating the Pistons normal advantage. Other matchups I like or Bowen vs Tayshaun. Bowen can defend Rip Hamilton much better than Tayshaun can defend Manu Ginobili. Rasheed Wallace rises to the occasion and plays some of his best stuff against Tim Duncan, but Timmy still has that. Coaching mismatch matters too. Detroit have a better bench but not a large enough advantage to counter the rest.

(3) The Spurs get more easy baskets than Detroit. They're better on the break, better at attacking and scoring in the paint, better at getting to the line. Spurs are better on the backboards. Defensively San Antonio are better too.

Sorry. TP for Roy. Either the records count for both or neither.

Everything matters ..... you look at all the information available and evaluate it.

There's a lot more information on Detroit-San Antonio than Denver-Cleveland. Detroit Spurs played an NBA Finals with what is basically the same core of players. Detroit and San Antonio have both had prolonged playoff runs for years now against several different sides to offer more information. The Nuggets-Cavs play twice a season so there's less information, and neither side as had close to the playoff success of Detroit-San An.

The Nuggest two wins this season weren't the only reason I thought they were better as I added in another follow up post on the previous page. I just thought it was a nice polarizing picture of the situation - That Denver are better than Cleveland.

All The Details Matter

Sorry to belabor the point but The 2-0 record is also a detail.

If the details matter then you can't ignore that San antonio has gotten  a lot older. They looked tired against the Lakers. Barry, Bowen, Horry, Thomas are all over 35 and Ginobli was hurt. This was far from the team in 2005.

You also can't ignore the additions of Maxiell and Stuckey for Detroit. They can flat out play and I hate that.

[GoldenThroat]

The Lakers' bench, collectively, averages 106.4 points per 100 possessions, according to 82games.com.  That's good for seventh in the NBA.  They also rank in the top-10 in terms of bench assists, steals, blocks, and raw scoring, and they're second in the NBA in +/- (how much they've outscored other teams by).  Statistically, they're outproducing Boston's bench in just about every area other than rebounds.

They're a pretty good unit, even if they don't have a lot of big names.

Link.

Absolutely. Aside from the statistics, they are truly a unit. I believe that continuity is the most underrated element of a successful basketball team, and in this respect the Laker bench has a huge advantage over the Celtics. For the most part, Phil's rotations have remained consistent over the year, through thick and thin. This has resulted in a group of guys who know how to play together, as opposed to a Celtic unit that has been constantly tinkered with through Free Agent acquisitions and Doc's propensity to coach by "feel".

Others can mock the Laker bench all they'd like. If they perform to the standard that they've set, those people will be in for a rude awakening. 

[Who]

Denver were better than Atlanta and Cleveland. Check the Nuggets record against Cleveland, Melo and Co. torch the Cavs. Detroit was better than Denver.

Utah and San Antonio were both better than Detroit and it's not close.

Question:  how can you cite to the Nuggets' record against Cleveland (2-0) as being conclusive, while ignoring Detroit's record against San Antonio (2-0)?

I added some more to my reasons for why I think Denver are better than Cleveland.

So I'll switch to the Spurs-Pistons.

(1) 2005 Finals. Pistons have gotten worse. Spurs have gotten better. The Spurs were already the better side. Rasheed is worse, Billups is worse, Ben Wallace is gone. Billups cannot defend Parker nearly as well as he could in 2005, and Parker is far superior nowadays.

(2) For my money the Spurs have the best backcourt in the NBA negating the Pistons normal advantage. Other matchups I like or Bowen vs Tayshaun. Bowen can defend Rip Hamilton much better than Tayshaun can defend Manu Ginobili. Rasheed Wallace rises to the occasion and plays some of his best stuff against Tim Duncan, but Timmy still has that. Coaching mismatch matters too. Detroit have a better bench but not a large enough advantage to counter the rest.

(3) The Spurs get more easy baskets than Detroit. They're better on the break, better at attacking and scoring in the paint, better at getting to the line. Spurs are better on the backboards. Defensively San Antonio are better too.

Sorry. TP for Roy. Either the records count for both or neither.

Everything matters ..... you look at all the information available and evaluate it.

There's a lot more information on Detroit-San Antonio than Denver-Cleveland. Detroit Spurs played an NBA Finals with what is basically the same core of players. Detroit and San Antonio have both had prolonged playoff runs for years now against several different sides to offer more information. The Nuggets-Cavs play twice a season so there's less information, and neither side as had close to the playoff success of Detroit-San An.

The Nuggest two wins this season weren't the only reason I thought they were better as I added in another follow up post on the previous page. I just thought it was a nice polarizing picture of the situation - That Denver are better than Cleveland.

All The Details Matter

Sorry to belabor the point but The 2-0 record is also a detail.

If the details matter then you can't ignore that San antonio has gotten  a lot older. They looked tired against the Lakers. Barry, Bowen, Horry, Thomas are all over 35 and Ginobli was hurt. This was far from the team in 2005.

You also can't ignore the additions of Maxiell and Stuckey for Detroit. They can flat out play and I hate that.

Yes it is a detail and it matters.

San Antonio have aged, but Detroit have aged worse. Rasheed is a shadow of himself. Billlups has slown down. Ben is gone. Tim Duncan has lost a step but he is still the best big man in the game. Parker has gotten better. Manu has gotten better. The Spurs supporting cast has gotten older and needs replacing, but their star players are still very much the dominant forces they've always been. Of course Detroit now has a worse coach to work with too.

Neither side is all that far from 2005 personnel wise. Some things have changed but they still have an awful lot in common. Detroit still has 4/5s of the starters as does San Antonio. Still play similar style of basketball.

As for the Spurs losing to the Lakers. The Lakers were better and deserved to win. The Lakers would have romped through Detroit just the same. The Spurs aren't suddenly a bad team because they lost to LA, they beat a championship caliber New Orleans side (who are also better than Detroit). They were also right in this series losing by only the smallest of margins after having 20 point and 17 point leads on the Lakers homecourt. That Spurs-Lakers series could have easily gone the other way, the difference was very small.

If the Spurs replace some of their older supporting cast members they'll be right there next season too. The Pistons don't need to replace their supporting cast, they need to replace their starters and best players. Huge huge difference. That's why San Antonio will be a legitimate contender again next season and Detroit will only be a playoff team.

This Spurs team is marginally worse than last season. Last season they swept the Cavs and beat the Jazz in the Conference Finals to win the NBA Title. This year they played better teams and they lost. This team isn't far from it's championship glories at all.

I did account for Maxiell and Stuckey, I did say the the Pistons have a better bench, I also said that it wasn't a big enough advantage to overcome the rest of their disadvantages versus the Spurs. I'm a very big Stuckey fan, I've been saying all season that he would have been a contender for RoY if he got more minutes and opportunities to score like Kevin Durant did. He's very talented. Detroit have the superior bench than the Spurs now but it's also worth noting it's worse than 2005 and 2004 when Detroit were playing in June.

If you disagree that San An or better than Detroit or Denver are better than Cleveland ... fine, I can understand that, I'd think you're wrong but I could understand that .... but everything you've said, I did count those things in my reckoning of which team is better. It wasn't just about the record for either Denver or Detroit but everything.