Am I just old school?

[Vermont Green]

There was a point in the 3rd quarter where I thought the Celtics overall (and Pierce-Allen in particular)really were just plain bad.  I compare it to a football game where a team is up by 17 (in a playoff game) and they complete a pass, the receiver breaks free and is headed for the end-zone.  But instead of just putting his head down and running, at about the 20 year line, he holds the ball over his head and starts running like a chicken.  He fumbles, the other team picks it up and returns it for a touchdown.  Now the team is still ahead and in control of the scoreboard but suddenly, the other team is all fired up and your team is back on their heels.  (I think you get the point).

In the basketball game, we were 15 or 17 points up when Allen and Pierce tried succesive 3's.  They weren't just bad shots, they had an element of grandstanding to them.  Van Gundy picked up on it right away and was saying, what are they doing, play the game, not the score board.

How can a team of veterans have this kind of a let down mentally.  This 4 or 5 possession stretch changed everything and we almost lost the game.  I felt that Doc should have called time-out as soon as it got a little ragged and kick a chair or something.  They then choked up and played bad for quite a while.  Choking is the result of pressure so I am actually sympathetic about that but the show-boating that started the whole thing was just plain bad judgment, no sympathy.

We were lucky to win the game and I hope the team learned a lesson but why on earth do veterans start show-boating in the middle of a huge playoff game, no matter what the score???

[Edgar]

youre not old school
youre right.

[Redz]

Pierce has been guilty of this sort of thing his entire career.  He wants the dagger shot and will take it whether its forced or not.  I can allow for one of these type of shots, because if it works it is indeed a dagger, but successive attempts is exactly what you, and Van Gundy, mentioned - opening a door for a comeback and momentum swing.

That said, Larry Bird, in his day, had a real hard time passing up this kind of shot.  The difference is Bird had a penchant for actually hitting them, whereas Pierce doesn't.  The dagger shot is awfully tempting though.

[ram]

Yep
Who will ever forget Bird putting his head down and dribbling to the corner to get behind the 3 point line to put the dagger in the Houston Rockets in 1981?

And the corner 3 was further away in those days and Bird hadn't made 3 in a while.

But, of course, he hit it.

[Redz]

Yep
Who will ever forget Bird putting his head down and dribbling to the corner to get behind the 3 point line to put the dagger in the Houston Rockets in 1981?

And the corner 3 was further away in those days and Bird hadn't made 3 in a while.

But, of course, he hit it.

My favorite Bird dagger was the one hit against Milwaukee at the buzzer of a series clincher (I believe it was a sweep).  The Bucks had eliminated the Celts in `83 and Bird relished the vindication.  At the buzzer Bird threw up a 3 from the corner and didn't even stick around to watch it go through the hoop.  He turned his back as soon as he released it and started walking off the court to let  Milwaukee and its fans enjoy it all by themselves.

[Section 87]

And the corner 3 was further away in those days and Bird hadn't made 3 in a while.

The three-point line of 1981 was the same as today's line. 23'9" from the basket, or 3' from the sideline, whichever is shorter (22' at the shortest point).

[Oldschoolkid]

PLEASE tell posey to stop trying the HERO three also, introduce him to the layup......! He tries as many layups as he does 3's......Uh, Mr Posey, we need inside stuff, the three is for garbage time, or those guys in the 60% make-it bracket!!! same for every C's player, and make sure someone is under the rim before you shoot, like LEON P......! Perk now too! PJ also! So, yes i agree, leave the three for those 18 year old hero's at the gym, who never pass...and never win a pick up game because of it.....hahahahahah......!

[gar]

Guess there is old school and then there is Bird.
I cannot help but think that Doc needs to be tougher on these guys when they start settling for quick threes. There needs to be some leadership in these situations. Once they get up they start playing sloppy. They have played some horrible basketball this series. If I was doc I would put together a tape of all the poorly run play and make them watch a good 30 min. worth. You can't beat the Lakers playing that way.

[Redz]

PLEASE tell posey to stop trying the HERO three also, introduce him to the layup......! He tries as many layups as he does 3's......Uh, Mr Posey, we need inside stuff, the three is for garbage time, or those guys in the 60% make-it bracket!!! same for every C's player, and make sure someone is under the rim before you shoot, like LEON P......! Perk now too! PJ also! So, yes i agree, leave the three for those 18 year old hero's at the gym, who never pass...and never win a pick up game because of it.....hahahahahah......!

I disagree on Posey taking the 3's.  I don't have the stats to back this up but I'd be willing to bet my left foot that he shoots his 3's at a higher percentage in the 4th than other times of the game.  I want him shooting 3's in the 4th.  I don't think he takes the same variety of 3's we're talking about here. 

[SShoreFan 2.0]

The point about Bird hitting the shot and Pierce not has played huge in my mind. 

I ask you - Is it just my memory or is it that Larry basically delivered when called upon?  Was there a stretch in which he didn't deliver?

With Paul you know he has the talent to deliver, but I sometimes think that "wild-ass" Paul takes over and next thing you know the other team has an easy two.


 

[Redz]

The point about Bird hitting the shot and Pierce not has played huge in my mind. 

I ask you - Is it just my memory or is it that Larry basically delivered when called upon?  Was there a stretch in which he didn't deliver?

With Paul you know he has the talent to deliver, but I sometimes think that "wild-ass" Paul takes over and next thing you know the other team has an easy two.


 

When relatively healthy Bird pretty much routinely "answered the call".  I don't think this is my rosy memory working here either.  He was just plain clutch.  You were shocked when he missed a big shot or came up with a weak performance. 

[ram]

Bird

running 12 foot banker to beat the Sixers in Game 7 of the 1981 ECF

Incredible Game 5 performance vs the Lakers in the sweltering heat at the Garden to take a 3-2 lead in the series

Post-up of Magic in OT for the game winner at LA in the Henderson stole the ball game (also 1984, ties the series at 2-2 setting up the game 5 captioned above)

Of course, the "There's a steal by Bird" play to win Game 5 in 1987

1988 duel vs Dominique

The deciding Game 5 vs Inidiana when he came back from slamming his face on the hardwood

Picking apart the Cavs in Game 6, 1992, to force a Game 7 when he had no business playing with that bad back that kept him in the hospital between games
-------
Those are just off the top of my head.

[Redz]

Bird

running 12 foot banker to beat the Sixers in Game 7 of the 1981 ECF

Incredible Game 5 performance vs the Lakers in the sweltering heat at the Garden to take a 3-2 lead in the series

Post-up of Magic in OT for the game winner at LA in the Henderson stole the ball game (also 1984, ties the series at 2-2 setting up the game 5 captioned above)

Of course, the "There's a steal by Bird" play to win Game 5 in 1987

1988 duel vs Dominique

The deciding Game 5 vs Inidiana when he came back from slamming his face on the hardwood

Picking apart the Cavs in Game 6, 1992, to force a Game 7 when he had no business playing with that bad back that kept him in the hospital between games
-------
Those are just off the top of my head.

I think one of Larry's most clutch shots ever gets forgotten because he was "trumped", but the 3 he hit in Game 4 of the `87 series vs. LA was right up there with the ballsiest shot ever.  The Celts were down 2-1 in the series and down 1 in the game when Bird canned a 3 to put the Celts up 2 with 12 seconds to go.  The rest is too painful to rehash in detail, but suffice it to say it was the first moment in my life where I was willing to give Magic Johnson any credit for being clutch - and that hurt me to the core.

[SShoreFan 2.0]

I remember the Bucks killing the Celts in 1983 and Bird coming back the next year on fire.  I believe there was one game in which the Celts were in Milwaukee and beating the Bucks pretty handily and as the clocked ticked down, Bird took the ball to the corner, hoisted up a 3 and walked off before ball came down.  Game over.  Did this happen?

[Bahku]

It's a bit of laziness and a bit of wanting to take the "Big Shot" and be the hero. I mean, who ever heard of the "Big Layup"? It happens, (like when Larry stole the ball from an inbounding Zeke and gave to DJ for the lay-in that won the game), but the true "daggers" that are remembered are the big threes made by Horry and Cassell and Jordan, etc. Pierce wants to make those same kind of shots, understandably, who wouldn't? The problem is,  that shot has far less chances of going in as almost any other, and when you're running and attacking the basket successfully, it's really just a poor decision to take those threes, forced or not.