You Still Don't Think the Refs Make a Difference?

[Woodstock Libertarian]

I know a lot of you are still extremely reluctant to blame the refs for any of the Celtics woes this post-season. I hear ya. It seems like a complaint only a loser would make.

But now that we are ahead, maybe it will sound less like whining.

Last night the Pistons go on a 13-0 run to make it 17-15. In past road games that might have been enough to eliminate any edge the Cs had managed to earn. Why? It's a matter of debate, with folks like myself more inclined to blame the refs while others more inclined to blame doc and the players.

Last night's game provides a perfect example of my side of the debate.

The Celtics were in the middle of recovering from the 13-0 Pistons run, and two plays led the way, both on defense. PJ's block and Posey's drawn charge. You give the Pistons either one of those calls and that changes the complexion of what is transpiring on court. You give the Pistons both of the those calls, and you not only give the Pistons four points, you reverse the momentum of two stops and four points by the Celtics at the other end.

So instead of a 10-point Celtic lead, the Pistons are only down two. Instead of the Celtics running roughshod on their way to an 18-point lead, the Pistons are mounting a methodical comeback.

Huge, huge difference.

[liam]

I agree with you. I think it's an uphill climb for the Celtics every game. I think all the no calls at the end of game 3 let the Pistons get within 9 points. But we still have to find a way to win which we did last night. Go Celtics!

[EnP24]

While I agree with your point that either of those plays being decided in favor of DET would have drastically changed the "complexion" of the game; I want to point out that you're assuming that neither of those plays could have been fouls in theory.

[Thruthelookingglass]

I don't believe that the refs are biased.  But I have no way to explain the foul called against KG when Hamilton was wrapped around his arm nor do I have an explanation for the second foul call on Ray.  So yeah, can't say your theory is too out there.

The rest I can explain as missed calls and inconsistent playcalling, which probably frustrates the Pistons too even if they might be getting more calls.  Seems to me refs tend to whistle against the momentum of the game, no matter who has it.  And our guys haven't helped matters, with some really bone-headed fouls that must leave the refs wondering "What the hell?"

[liam]

I don't believe that the refs are biased.  But I have no way to explain the foul called against KG when Hamilton was wrapped around his arm nor do I have an explanation for the second foul call on Ray.  So yeah, can't say your theory is too out there.

The rest I can explain as missed calls and inconsistent playcalling, which probably frustrates the Pistons too even if they might be getting more calls.  Seems to me refs tend to whistle against the momentum of the game, no matter who has it.  And our guys haven't helped matters, with some really bone-headed fouls that must leave the refs wondering "What the hell?"

They don't seem to whistle against LAs momentum.

[RunningTheFloor]

This posted in the wrong spot...my bad.

[Roy Hobbs]

The Celtics were in the middle of recovering from the 13-0 Pistons run, and two plays led the way, both on defense. PJ's block and Posey's drawn charge. You give the Pistons either one of those calls and that changes the complexion of what is transpiring on court. You give the Pistons both of the those calls, and you not only give the Pistons four points, you reverse the momentum of two stops and four points by the Celtics at the other end.

So instead of a 10-point Celtic lead, the Pistons are only down two. Instead of the Celtics running roughshod on their way to an 18-point lead, the Pistons are mounting a methodical comeback.

First, if the point of this post is "officiating can change the complexion of a game", I think that's fairly obvious.  Even beyond bias, how tightly or loosely the refs call a game is inevitably going to effect the score somehow, whether it be by putting players into foul trouble, changing a team's defense to adjust to the officiating, etc., etc.

However, in the above example, I find it hard to automatically credit the two calls for an eight point swing one way or the other.  Credit Detroit with four more points if you want, but the "momentum" factor of the Celtics scores is tenuous, at best.  I can't even remember if the Celts definitely scored on their ensuing possessions, but assuming they did, what's to say that they wouldn't have scored on their next trip down the floor had Detroit been awarded foul shots?  That seems like a strange assumption to make.   

[celtics2]

 *know a lot of you are still extremely reluctant to blame the refs for any of the Celtics woes this post-season. I hear ya. It seems like a complaint only a loser would make.

But now that we are ahead, maybe it will sound less like whining.

Last night the Pistons go on a 13-0 run to make it 17-15. In past road games that might have been enough to eliminate any edge the Cs had managed to earn. Why? It's a matter of debate, with folks like myself more inclined to blame the refs while others more inclined to blame doc and the players.

Last night's game provides a perfect example of my side of the debate.

The Celtics were in the middle of recovering from the 13-0 Pistons run, and two plays led the way, both on defense. PJ's block and Posey's drawn charge. You give the Pistons either one of those calls and that changes the complexion of what is transpiring on court. You give the Pistons both of the those calls, and you not only give the Pistons four points, you reverse the momentum of two stops and four points by the Celtics at the other end.

So instead of a 10-point Celtic lead, the Pistons are only down two. Instead of the Celtics running roughshod on their way to an 18-point lead, the Pistons are mounting a methodical comeback.

Huge, huge difference.*

The League wants an LA Boston playoff for obvious $$ reasons and it will get it.

[Woodstock Libertarian]

The League wants an LA Boston playoff for obvious $$ reasons and it will get it.

Speaking of money, the league makes more from 7 game series than from 6 or five, and thus perhaps we don't get either the PJ non-call or Posey charge at Atlanta or Cleveland.

[joebianca]

No doubt. Game 6 in the Hawks series and Game 6 in the Cavs series were two of the worst officiated games I've ever seen, and all I'll say is I'm glad we're no longer playing a team that Stern would have a reason to push..

[dark_lord]

i am of the mindset that the players and coaches win or lose games.  however, the officiating has been terrible overall and is a valid factor.

[liam]

i am of the mindset that the players and coaches win or lose games.  however, the officiating has been terrible overall and is a valid factor.

I agree, players and coaches have to overcome Refs no matter how bad the calls. You have to keep playing through the bad calls and find a way to win.

[TrueGreen]

Refs make mistakes. Fine. But the mistakes should equal out for both teams. The Hamilton flop on the so called KG foul early in the game is what to me could have been the game changer. With 3 officials on the floor that should have been called a foul on Hamilton. Period. If 3 officials can't do the job the NBA should go back to 2 and get rid of the worst refs. We were lucky last night because they made some right calls as were mentioned above.    Just need to mention an irony in last nite's game. PJ Brown was guarding Wallace, I believe, under the basket. As Wallace was trying to back down PJ, PJ moved away and caused Wallace to fall off balance and walk (it wasn't called a walk, but we got the ball anyway). This was done in front of Rick Mahorn, one of the Detroit announcers who used to do that against McHale.

[CoachBo]

I am of the mindset that Dick Bavetta rises from his crypt every two days to work an NBA game.

Dude looks like walking death.

[WedmanIsMyHero]

I agree with you the refs can matter.  Look at the 2002 Western Conference finals between the Kings and Lakers.  Or the 2006 NBA finals between the Mavs and Heat.

However, in this case, to the extent the refs matter, all of the indicators point in the direction of it helping the Celtics rather than hurting the Celtics.

I mean, this is not Stern fixing the lottery so the Knicks win Ewing bad, but everyone knows the league wants a Boston-LA final.

Do people out there really think the NBA wants Boston to lose to Detroit?  I do *not* think there is league intervention to help teams, but if there is, why would it be AGAINST Boston?