Trouble--right here, in River City

[Hondo to Rondo]

  It has been months since I last started a thread, but I have a nagging feeling that I want some feedback on.  If anyone can, then set my mind at ease.
  First I suspect we have some disharmony in the locker room.  I think Ray Allen has not been used wisely in Doc's system (or his assistant's), and I bet he's miffed.
  Second, I think Rondo (my namesake, so I'm not a hater) may be hard-headed enough to send us home instead of to the NBA finals.
  Third, Perkins seems to be trying to play the right way, but he's not the most talented preps-to-pros player to have shaken David Stern's hand.
  I think we may have a little shakeup following the season, regardless of our record--since a championship is the goal, not a nice record.

Okay, that's it quickly.  Now, specifically, someone said the other day that we are not a very talented team.  I think that's wrong.  And I'm not playing word games here, like Larry Bird was talented even though he was slower, more terrestrial, less "athletic."  No, I'm not talking about a different kind of talent.  I mean we have a team that will thrive in the open court with Rondo, Ray Allen, KG, Posey, House, Powe, and Tony Allen all athletic as hell and well-equipped to run most teams right off the floor.  Perk, Pierce, and Big Baby would function very effectively too, though I suspect they might not be considered too athletic.  What does this have to do with Ray Allen?  We need an offensive style that suits him.  He has under-performed all year, though lauded for his continual "sacrifice."  That's a heap.  When you have Ray Allen, you don't ask him to sacrifice his offense, at least not by forty percent.  The guy is a GREAT scorer.  Only a stubborn or ignorant coach does not utilize this guy effectively.  My call: either the coach goes, the system changes, or Ray Allen is out the door.  Ainge surrounded Doc with role players who fit ideally into a fast-paced offense, and a hard core defense:  House, Posey, and Pollard in the summer; Perkins, Rondo, TA, Pruitt, and Powe already here.  Doc has catered the offense to suit his captain; Ray Allen has had to "sacrifice."  I think that's a death knell for Doc.

About Rondo, I have liked him since before we drafted him.  I predicted that Ainge would draft him.  I think he's a helluva talent, and a great open-court point guard.  But, I get the feeling he's butting heads with Doc (or the vets?).  Anyone else see this happening?  Fellas, now is not the time for this stupidity.  Butt heads in practice or during the preseason, or during the early regular season, but NOT NOW.  Man, if we can't have chemistry now, then we're sunk.  I hope this is not a serious problem with Rondo, because if it is, then he's not our man, and...it's a shame.  I want someone to talk me out of this one.  I feel like my best friend smells like my girlfriend's perfume.  Rondo, be a stud...not a dud.

The last concern is a judgment call, and I'm asking for your input here.  Is Perkins good enough to man the middle for a championship team?  He seems, to me, to disappear too often.  When he gets up for games, rebounds well, and outlets that ball, I love him.  But it seems like he's riveted to the concept about one out of every three or four games.  Someone explain why I'm wrong on this one.

To sum up.  I am not pleased with this post-season.  I think we're under-achieving, and it seems like a coaching issue.  I think we need an uptempo offense as an outlet for the energy and offense we are capable of. 

I think Doc Rivers is our weak link.  We should be beating the Pistons soundly at home, should have beaten Cleveland in six or five, and should have demolished the Hawks in four.  Believe it or not, we have trouble, guys.

[BudweiserCeltic]

You've got too many baseless assumptions in your post to even try to respond to your concerns...

[wiley]

I can't set your mind at ease, because I have some uneasiness along similar lines....But, and I hope this helps, I am not completely confident in my uneasiness.  I need more evidence.  We don't know yet the full level of this Celtics' team's resiliency.  It may be way up there higher than we can see at this muddy moment.....

1.  I think Doc and others tell Rondo to be aggressive and take open shots, but I think when he misses he hears it from various people.  This is just a guess, but it seems like he's getting mixed messages.  Coaches and Veterans should be on the same page, not telling younger players different things.  If this happens or has happened, Doc should address it.  In general, I think Rondo should be given more control and more freedom to shoot, veterans getting their looks be [dang]ed.....

2.  I like Perkins, but it may be time to give Powe a start at center and live with the occasional mismatch.  I think with big minutes he could get rolling and give us 18 and 12, which would make up for an occasional problem on defense.  My basic reasoning is that we need more offense than Perk can give.  During the year we were fine, but everything's tightened up now so we need scoring.  

[Hondo to Rondo]

You've got too many baseless assumptions in your post to even try to respond to your concerns...

  Hmm.. Let's see,

Ray is way underachieving, Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed, and Perk seems to disappear.  These are the main points of concern.  I think there's a basis there.

[BudweiserCeltic]

You've got too many baseless assumptions in your post to even try to respond to your concerns...

  Hmm.. Let's see,

Ray is way underachieving, Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed, and Perk seems to disappear.  These are the main points of concern.  I think there's a basis there.

"Ray is way underachieving" <--- Not because Doc is telling him "Ray, you have to sacrifice your game for us to win"... I call BS on that.

"Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed" <--- I don't know where you see the disgruntled part. Hard-headed? Maybe. He's always been the same... a quiet kid that goes about his business. Nothing's changed in his demeanor. Plus all we've heard from everyone involved with Rondo is that he's an eager learner and likes to listen and work on his game. That they butt heads from time to time? Sure, everyone goes through with it... but I don't buy the whole "Rondo is doing things his way, regardless of what the intructions are because he's hard headed". He's just what he is, inexperienced and being asked to carry out a role that he can't perform with consistency because the responsibility is quite big for him at the moment... running our offense.

"Perk seems to disappear" <--- Perk has been playing quite well. Sure he's not great in all the games, but I think he's been fairly consistent throughout the playoffs. No one is expecting him to put in stellar performances night in and night out, and his best contributions come in defensively... and he's been REALLY good in the playoffs in this regard. Plus his back-up has been very good, so that plays into his disappearing act too.

In general, the suspicion of lockeroom disharmony is unfounded.

[EZ Ed Pinckney]

No matter what happens I don't think like the idea of making major changes to the core of this team without at least giving them one more year together.  Gaining experience and going through adversity together should help them in the future.  They should be more comfortable with each other and hopefully more effective in tough spots.  It also gives the young players another year to develop.

I think if you change the core of the team you hurt chemistry and keep them from developing into a cohesive unit like the Pistons or Spurs.  Any changes should be on the bench (Pollard, PJ, Cassell, House, etc.)

[Neurotic Guy]

Here's my spin:

First, when this team was assembled there were many, including myself, who would have been thrilled with an ECF appearance this year.  Many of us thought that we'd be good, not great, in Year 1 and then contend in Year 2 or 3.  Those of us who felt that way should relax a bit and recall our good reasoning -- we felt that way because we knew that it takes some time for a championship team to develop.  We were not looking to fill a hole or 2, we were a 24-win team that was drastically overhauled.  It's hard to beat experienced teams in the playoffs in your first year as a new group.

Yet, with the 66 wins surprising many of us, our expectations rose along with the win total, only to be struck by harsh reality when the playoff road proved tougher than expected against young legs in Atlanta and then against a team whose core had experienced an ECF run a year ago.

I think that the only chance for Doc to be replaced will be if Detroit dominates the remainder of this series, a possibility, but I certainly am hoping against it.  I'm not sure what Doc could be doing anything differently with RA to enhance his game and the overall play of the team -- I think Ray filled his role as shooter and '3rd wheel' quite well, and I think building the offense around RA would likely cause more disruption to the offense than it would be worth.  I like Rondo penetrating and then finding RA (or whomever) while we keep their defenders moving and chasing.

I don't see what you are refering to re: Rondo's attitude.  I think he is a young guy who is an intense competitor, who also happens to like to keep a rather stoic demeanor.  But don't forget that key stat in Rondo's resume -- 22.   He is still carded at the liquor store while attempting to lead a team with 3 future hall-of-famers all 10 years his senior.  If his armor is beginning to lose a bit of its shine, I'd say that's not a worry, it's probably healthy.  But -- it may be a sign that he and his team are not entirely ready to ride this one out.

If they lose 2 in Detroit and then lose game 5 in Boston, I think DA will have some justification for a shake-up including the coaching staff (not that I am recommending such).  But if this turns out to be an intensely competitive series and Boston takes Detroit on the road at least once, I think changes other than tweaks are unlikely.  

I'm praying for a win in Detroit today or Monday, but I do admit that my subconscious is working to prepare me for the worst (which, by the way, is any scenario that has the Lakers winning #16).  

[Andy Jick]

if we were up 2-0 against the pistons this thread would not exist...

[ChainSmokingLikeDino]

if we were up 2-0 against the pistons this thread would not exist...

TP. Seriously, there's some real chicken-little-ing going on round these parts.

[Hondo to Rondo]

You've got too many baseless assumptions in your post to even try to respond to your concerns...

  Hmm.. Let's see,

Ray is way underachieving, Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed, and Perk seems to disappear.  These are the main points of concern.  I think there's a basis there.

"Ray is way underachieving" <--- Not because Doc is telling him "Ray, you have to sacrifice your game for us to win"... I call BS on that.

"Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed" <--- I don't know where you see the disgruntled part. Hard-headed? Maybe. He's always been the same... a quiet kid that goes about his business. Nothing's changed in his demeanor. Plus all we've heard from everyone involved with Rondo is that he's an eager learner and likes to listen and work on his game. That they butt heads from time to time? Sure, everyone goes through with it... but I don't buy the whole "Rondo is doing things his way, regardless of what the intructions are because he's hard headed". He's just what he is, inexperienced and being asked to carry out a role that he can't perform with consistency because the responsibility is quite big for him at the moment... running our offense.

"Perk seems to disappear" <--- Perk has been playing quite well. Sure he's not great in all the games, but I think he's been fairly consistent throughout the playoffs. No one is expecting him to put in stellar performances night in and night out, and his best contributions come in defensively... and he's been REALLY good in the playoffs in this regard. Plus his back-up has been very good, so that plays into his disappearing act too.

In general, the suspicion of lockeroom disharmony is unfounded.

Re:  your comments on Perk.  That's more what I'm looking for.  I feel like he's disappearing too much, but maybe I'm missing something.  I do like the way he's developing a few little moves around the basket.  Is he good enough to play center for a champion?
  I'm gonna have to trump your BS since Doc actually said in an article at the beginning of the playoffs that he had said directly to Ray that Ray would have to sacrifice, so save your BS for Doc the next time you see him.

[Hondo to Rondo]

if we were up 2-0 against the pistons this thread would not exist...

TP. Seriously, there's some real chicken-little-ing going on round these parts.

Both of your comments are off.  When we were tied with Atlanta twice, I didn't write.  When tied with Cleveland in a dangerous game seven, I watched without writing.  I'm not saying the sky is falling, you've got your conclusion before you read what I'm saying.

When a team like Atlanta hangs with us, there's a reason.  When guys underachieve for long periods, there's a reason.  I'm not saying we won't win this series, but I see some pretty aberrant play for a great team, which is what we're capable of being.

If you don't see some strange things, then (1) I don't think you're paying attention or (2) you are better in tune than I am, and if the second is the case, then I'm saying clue me in.

I think my concerns are legit.  I think your rebuttal is too easy.

[BudweiserCeltic]

You've got too many baseless assumptions in your post to even try to respond to your concerns...

  Hmm.. Let's see,

Ray is way underachieving, Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed, and Perk seems to disappear.  These are the main points of concern.  I think there's a basis there.

"Ray is way underachieving" <--- Not because Doc is telling him "Ray, you have to sacrifice your game for us to win"... I call BS on that.

"Rondo often seems disgruntled and hard-headed" <--- I don't know where you see the disgruntled part. Hard-headed? Maybe. He's always been the same... a quiet kid that goes about his business. Nothing's changed in his demeanor. Plus all we've heard from everyone involved with Rondo is that he's an eager learner and likes to listen and work on his game. That they butt heads from time to time? Sure, everyone goes through with it... but I don't buy the whole "Rondo is doing things his way, regardless of what the intructions are because he's hard headed". He's just what he is, inexperienced and being asked to carry out a role that he can't perform with consistency because the responsibility is quite big for him at the moment... running our offense.

"Perk seems to disappear" <--- Perk has been playing quite well. Sure he's not great in all the games, but I think he's been fairly consistent throughout the playoffs. No one is expecting him to put in stellar performances night in and night out, and his best contributions come in defensively... and he's been REALLY good in the playoffs in this regard. Plus his back-up has been very good, so that plays into his disappearing act too.

In general, the suspicion of lockeroom disharmony is unfounded.

Re:  your comments on Perk.  That's more what I'm looking for.  I feel like he's disappearing too much, but maybe I'm missing something.  I do like the way he's developing a few little moves around the basket.  Is he good enough to play center for a champion?
  I'm gonna have to trump your BS since Doc actually said in an article at the beginning of the playoffs that he had said directly to Ray that Ray would have to sacrifice, so save your BS for Doc the next time you see him.

You're taking the sacrifice bit out of context... everyone is sacrificing in order to make the team work, but it's not like Doc went to Ray and said "Hey Ray, you ball hoggin too much. Cut the crap and sacrifice your game for team" as you seem to be insinuating.  The context of the sacrifice bit was that Ray was the most difficult to make adjustments for and hardest to incorporate into our offense, simply because his role in the past demanded he had the ball in his hands pretty much every time... we can't have him doing that, so he's ended up being more of spot up shooter, something he has never really been. That's the sacrifice. Then you have to take into consideratin how shaky our PG play has been in terms of consistency, and when our PG play is incosistent, it's player's in Allen's role that get affected the most.  Countless times he comes off picks or is wide open for a jumpshot and people miss him.

It simply means that Ray has had the toughest time adapting, but is in no way bitter about it. This is the first year together. I'm sure after this year is done, he'll work on something to better incorporate himself, and I'm sure the coaching staff will come up with new ways to make his life easier.

[Andy Jick]

it's a best of 7 series...last i checked, you could actually go down 3-0 and still win the war.  let's wait until awhile before we start writing the eulogy...

[QuinielaBox]

Hopefully, last nights performance alleviate some of your concerns.