Author Topic: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...  (Read 9410 times)

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Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2008, 08:47:26 AM »

Offline WedmanIsMyHero

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Stern wants the Celtics to win.  He's on the record about how great it is for the league when the Celtics are good.  If the fix is in for Game 7, it may very well be in for the Celtics.  I don't think these games are fixed or that Stern gives orders, I just think some of the officials are not at the quality level they should be at. . .

I just posted this paragraph on another thread, but it fits here:

How can David Stern, as a lawyer, not see the inherent conflict of interest the league has with Lebron?  The 'Global Icon' is their biggest meal ticket, does the most commercials, and is basically who they have decided to push hardest as the next MJ... even though he hasn't really earned 'next MJ' status but that's another story.

If you're marketing this young man as the future of the game, and he's bringing in the most cash, and he's playing pretty poorly... doesn't it start to seem odd he gets every single foul call his way?!?

Game 6 first half Big Baby intercepts an entry pass to Igaulskus after anticipating the play perfectly, but the refs think "This guy's a nobody, a rookie, he can't possibly make a good play, Foul!"  Lebron takes an out-of-control fallaway and they think "There's no way "King James" could miss on his own, Foul!"  It's a sickening double-standard.

Stern, forget about marketing Lebron : He's just a flopper who yells at his mom!


Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2008, 09:28:56 AM »

Offline Frontierboy

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I have to say that in any business, the goal is to maximize profits.... the NBA is no different... they knew last year was very bad for profits.... I think I read somewhere where more than half the teams in the NBA had a negative profit....

The games are fixed.... people that don't believe it, probably didn't believe a ref could bet on games he officiated a year ago...... or don't think that a NFL player would be stupid enough to bet on dog fighting.... or that steroids were not widespread in MLB....

It's time to open up your eyes, sports game outcomes isn't accidental.....it's a business that tries to be as profitable as it can be.....

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2008, 09:36:17 AM »

Offline BigAlTheFuture

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I guess we blame Stern for bad officiating because these are the worst officiated games ever in the playoffs and he is the man in charge of these referees.
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Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2008, 09:41:20 AM »

Offline Sweet17

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It's not a straight up fix, IMHO. But he can influence games and series with "memos" to the refs. Just something like - "Watch PP on those charges - he has been charging right into people and getting calls" And bam you can expect several charges to go against PP. In this way the NBA can encourage these long series..

Pete

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #19 on: May 18, 2008, 10:09:08 AM »

Offline MaineBleedsGreen

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was detroit so good even the fix couldn't get their series to 7 games?

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #20 on: May 18, 2008, 10:23:54 AM »

Offline Bankshot

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was detroit so good even the fix couldn't get their series to 7 games?

No.  Nobody cared to see a Pistons/Magic game 7.  No real marketable players in that series.  Dwight Howard?... eh.
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Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #21 on: May 18, 2008, 10:32:36 AM »

Offline Brickowski

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Why blame Tojo for Pearl Harbor?  He didn't drop a single bomb or torpedo.

We blame Stern for the same reason we blame Tojo.  He's in charge, and he selects the people responsible.

Having said that, I also partially blame the owners on the rules committee.  The rules relating to offensive fouls are FUBAR, and must be fixed.  On about 50% of all charging calls, the refs could close their eyes and flip a coin, and get the same percentage right.  Plus these rules encourage flopping.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2008, 12:32:43 PM by Brickowski »

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #22 on: May 18, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If i can recall, last years finals were the worst rated finals in a long time. So why would stern want to go through that again? If he wants a good rated finals wont he want celtics/lakers in the finals? i know the officiating is horrible (especially on the c's) but why is it sterns fault?

Why are you trying to use reason to talk to conspiracy theorists? People believe what they want to believe. It's cognitive dissonance. They confabulates preposterous scenarios to take the blame away from the team they love when the team they love is horrible.

If such fantasies make those people happier, then more power to them.

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #23 on: May 18, 2008, 11:26:04 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Here is the root of the officiating problem:

Quote
Social psychologists have identified a number of cognitive strategies that help people explain and deal with negative experiences. Blaming others for failure while taking personal credit for success, distorting or ignoring unpleasant information, and interpreting one's motives as principled and righteous, are among the variety of available methods of maintaining confidence in difficult circumstances. Misrepresenting reality with 'positive illusions' (Taylor & Brown, 1988, 1994) can ultimately be healthy and adaptive. Indeed, they serve a vital function of removing perceptions of self-blame, protecting from external censure, and providing palatable explanations for disturbing events. In the longer term, they may lead to more positive expectations about the future, greater persistence and self-efficacy. Taylor and Brown (1988) suggest that people who fail to use these strategies are more likely to be anxious or depressed.

Sports performers and coaches often make use of self-serving attributions (Biddle, 1993; McAuley & Duncan, 1989) to explain their own disappointing results. External factors such as bad luck or other people's incompetence are used to deal with unpleasant experiences, defeats, and rejection, while internal factors such as skill and effort are seen as responsible for victories and other successes. Lau and Russell's (1980) analysis of newspaper reports showed that players and coaches were more likely to attribute their successes to internal factors (such as skill and determination) and their losses to external factors (such as cheating opponents and poor weather) than sportswriters describing exactly the same events.

Another potentially useful mechanism is 'illusory superiority' or self-aggrandizement, where people adopt the view that they have more positive qualities than others (Alicke, 1985) and describe their personal strengths as above average compared with those of other people their age (Kleinke & Miller, 1998). The illusory nature of this is demonstrated by Lewinsohn, Mischel, Chaplin, and Barton (1980), who found that individuals made more flattering judgments about themselves than others made of them. Individuals also believe their personal relationships are of a higher quality than the relationships of others (Buunk & van der Eijnden, 1977) and remember experiences as more successful than they really were (Taylor & Brown, 1988).

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-31261390_ITM

People blame refs to cope with the disappointments. Refs also can be rigid because they are prone to the same self deceit.

I am searching to find any studies of people prone to referee blaming. I'm sure it would also provide interesting insights to other more dangerous forms of self deception.

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #24 on: May 18, 2008, 11:33:59 AM »

Offline CoachBo

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Got any studies about people who believe officials should never be questioned?
Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #25 on: May 18, 2008, 11:47:57 AM »

Offline guava_wrench

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Got any studies about people who believe officials should never be questioned?

Does anyone believe that apart from perhaps certain individual referees?

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #26 on: May 18, 2008, 12:08:44 PM »

Offline guava_wrench

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If you're marketing this young man as the future of the game, and he's bringing in the most cash, and he's playing pretty poorly... doesn't it start to seem odd he gets every single foul call his way?!?

Some people are making conclusions that are out of touch with reality. Lebron has had multiple offensive fouls called against him this series. That fact alone makes it ridiculous to say "he gets every single foul call his way".

Comments like that betray the irrationality that motivates most people's conclusions. If the alleged bias against the Celtics that a few people have been claiming almost every game this season is at all valid, it will take a detailed study of every call by an impartial observer who knows the details of the rules. Some clown, for example, who says "that can't be an offensive foul, his feet weren't set" when an offensive player pushes off with his arm won't do, since this person obviously doesn't understand the actual rules concerning charges and blocking fouls.

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #27 on: May 18, 2008, 12:32:18 PM »

Offline KJ33

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I just posted this paragraph on another thread, but it fits here:

How can David Stern, as a lawyer, not see the inherent conflict of interest the league has with Lebron?  The 'Global Icon' is their biggest meal ticket, does the most commercials, and is basically who they have decided to push hardest as the next MJ... even though he hasn't really earned 'next MJ' status but that's another story.

If you're marketing this young man as the future of the game, and he's bringing in the most cash, and he's playing pretty poorly... doesn't it start to seem odd he gets every single foul call his way?!?

Game 6 first half Big Baby intercepts an entry pass to Igaulskus after anticipating the play perfectly, but the refs think "This guy's a nobody, a rookie, he can't possibly make a good play, Foul!"  Lebron takes an out-of-control fallaway and they think "There's no way "King James" could miss on his own, Foul!"  It's a sickening double-standard.

Stern, forget about marketing Lebron : He's just a flopper who yells at his mom!


TP, great examples to show refs' bias, something I think they have to have, because on 3/4 of the calls they are guessing in my opinion, rather than purposely slanting it to favor one team or the other.  Most are too old and the game is too fast, so they use their biases' to guide them, like BBD being a rook who is aggressive and gets alot of fouls this way, must be a foul, James ability to draw contact and then exaggerating (faking?) it, they call it. 

From an objective point of view, it seems simple to suggest they should just call it as they see it, but from my observance of thousands of games, they just aren't capable of doing that, the game is too fast and they are overwhelmed by it.  So they count on "educated" guesses, having been "educated" (partly by Stern I believe) about where the player ranks in the pantheon, what his tendencies are, etc.  It is not at the point where things are actually scripted, but it doesn't take  a conspiracy theorist to see that there is a level of influence over the refs in the way they make calls. 

Traveling and block/charges are clearly influenced by what the league has asked them to emphasize.  This is what permits Ginobli to take 3-4 steps on drives to the hoop without a call, but when KG rips through with the ball, maybe his pivot foot shifted a bit, maybe not, but no clear advantage was gained by taking an extra step as in the Ginobli example, this will be called a travel.  Why? Because the league asked refs to emphasize the foot/shot fake and travels on that play this year, so when a ref sees a basketball play that merely resembles this call, they gleefully show they have heard their marching orders and make the call.

I don't personally believe the refs "cost" the Celtics the game the other night, too many other things factor into that to blame the refs, but can anyone say that the charge on Pierce would have been called if the defender had been anyone other than James on his home court?  That wasn't even good defense, James is an average defender at best, he was a step behind Pierce having been picked initially, and he just dove under Paul's legs, Pierce had no choice but to knock him over since he took his legs out.  Jr. High refs are not even duped by the kid who jumps underneath a dribbler, causing him to fall on top of him, James would never have received this call in high school or college basketball, that is how easy a call that really was.  So how could the NBA refs, supposedly the top of their profession, get that wrong? 

LeBron has not even learned how to play good defense fundamentally, he has learned how to use his reputation to manipulate the league.  Because Pierce had earlier anticipated LeBron's next step and got to the spot, causing James to push off with his off arm, James attempted to mimic this exact play, knowing one had gone against him and if he made Pierce knock him over by taking out his legs, he would likely get "this" one.  But this play only loosely resembled the previous play, it was clear James was forcing a call to be made by making Pierce fall on top of him, and the refs went right ahead and called it his way.  By making Pierce fall, he eliminated the choice of a no-call, and took the risk of a foul on himself, just knowing who he was and where he was.  Nobody may have told that ref to make that call or give the Cavs an advantage, but if one does not recognize that there was politics in what the ref did call, they are not paying attention. 

The part that is truly riling to me, is that LBJ has not come close to actually earning Jordan-status, yet he behaves in a way that he expects that level of treatment.  Jordan toiled 7 years against Boston and Detroit, putting up some phenomenal games before ever winning anything, and was 3 Championships deep before he started getting calls that went his way when there was a doubt.  James gets that treatment now, and the few times he does not, he is beside himself, something that at 23 and no Titles just makes no sense, except if you consider the league has created this monster.

As a diehard C's fan, I am not at all comfortable with the whole pregame today asking if LeBron can "close it out" today as the promo, and hear Breen say, "the road team is bound to win in this series now" and "this will define LeBron's legacy" as if the outcome is a fait accompli. 

Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #28 on: May 18, 2008, 02:17:55 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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was detroit so good even the fix couldn't get their series to 7 games?

Yeah, that's what I was thinking.  Or Lakers/Utah.  Or any of the first round series other than the Celtics.

The officiating has been poor.  At times, the Celtics have benefited from that, and at times, the officiating has been to their detriment.  However, I can't accept that the reason that we've gone to seven games with two inferior opponents is because the league wants it that way.  Is it the officials that have been making us shooting sub-40%?

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Re: Why blame Stern for the bad officiating?...
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2008, 02:23:10 PM »

Offline CoachBo

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Got any studies about people who believe officials should never be questioned?

Does anyone believe that apart from perhaps certain individual referees?

Or you?

Seriously, officials rarely decide games. But the officiating in this series has been second-rate, never more so than the last two minutes of game 6.

The whining about the whiners frankly is disingenuous. The officiating in this league isn't good, and when key calls influence a comeback, they are going to draw comment. And they should.

Coined the CelticsBlog term, "Euromistake."