DJ & Jesus

[ZoSo]

Kobe winning the MVP is one thing, Kobe winning the MVP by a huge margin is another. I’ve already said my piece on KG, and I won’t say much about Chris Paul except for the fact that just about any argument in favor of Kobe as MVP could be made in favor of Chris Paul and be a much stronger argument for Paul.

Ultimately, I don’t much care because I’ve resigned myself to the fact that basketball writers, ie., writers paid to be knowledgeable about basketball, just don’t get it.

My best example is DJ.

Last night I watched game 1 of the 1986 Finals. With 5 minutes left in the fourth quarter, DJ had posted 19 points, 11 assists, 8 rebounds and three blocks. Pause for a moment and let that sink in. Now contrast that with whatever it was that Ray Allen was doing last night on the basketball court.

Watching DJ perform over an entire game is a lot different than watching, oh, I don’t know, the “Steal by Bird” highlight 10 times in a row (which may be all that the HOF voters know about DJ). The first thing that comes to mind immediately is that DJ was not just good, and he was not just great. He was the second best guard in the NBA (behind Magic) from 1979-1986 (I’m including Jordan’s rookie year because Jordan was injured most of the season and hadn’t done enough to become first or second).

During DJ’s seven-year reign as the second best guard on the planet, he won three NBA titles, one NBA Finals MVP, and was a member of the all-defensive team every year. He was All-NBA (offense and defense) twice. Most importantly, as Bob Ryan once said, he was an absolutely destructive force at both ends of the court. Why did the Cs beat the Ls in the 1984 Finals? One major reason is that DJ neutralized Magic. Of course, that fact usually takes a back seat to Bird’s sissy speech, McHale’s clothesline, trash talk by ML, and Cornbread’s climb on my back quote.

Can’t get the ball into Bird, Walton, McHale, or Parish?

No matter.

Watch DJ drive to the hoop, stop, get the defender to let up, and continue on with a lay-up over, through, and around Ralph Sampson and Hakeem Olajawon.

Defenders now sagging off of DJ?

Again, no problem. DJ’s jumper in the fourth quarter no less reliable than Kareem’s skyhook.

I bet if someone tallied up DJ’s shooting percentage in the fourth quarter of every game he played it would be close to 60%. Add another 5% in the last five minutes of the fourth quarter, and another five percent in the last five minutes of big games. Quite simply, he was money in the bank when it counted.

Now again contrast that with the throat-clutching and body-seizing-up actions we have seen from today’s Celtics in close games over the last two weeks. 

NBA writers, broadcasters, and pundits like to throw around the notion that Ray Allen is a first-ballot Hall of Famer. If Ray Allen makes it into the HOF before DJ, then every writer responsible for that injustice should be confined to a Russian Gulag for life without parole. We’re talking about one of the 10 greatest guards of all-time compared to a spot-up jump shooter.

Did the spot-up jump shooter score more points? Yup. Which brings me back to Kobe.

Kobe over Paul over Garnett thus doesn’t get to me that much, cuz it’s a product of the same minds that bring us the notion that Ray Allen is a first-ballot HOFer, while DJ is an also ran.

Give me a freakin’ break.

[RockinRyA]

ray is more of an off the dribble and on-the-run shooter kind of guy.. he misses more on spot up ^_^

[Roy Hobbs]

I don't think there's a need to denigrate Ray Allen to boost D.J.; they're different types of players, who are both great in their own right.  Allen is one of the best pure shooting guards of all time; D.J. is a great all-around "combo guard" who was a key component on multiple championship teams.

I do agree for the most part about your description of D.J., though.  Great, great player.  (Although you might be overstating things a bit by calling him second to Magic from '79 until '86.  Isiah was better than D.J., and back in the day, Sidney Moncrief was as good as any guard in the NBA.)

[ZoSo]

I think what I am denigrating is the lack of historical perspective and balance in the HOF voting. If someone wants to vote Jesus into the hall on the first ballot, go ahead and do it. If the person casting that vote is also failing to first cast a vote for DJ, then, like I said, he doesn’t deserve the right to vote.

Jesus has a sweet jumper. Kobe is pretty to watch. It’s easy to vote for either one of them. What I’m suggesting is maybe the HOF voters actually do their job and look past superficially pleasing things to evaluate talent and impact.

[BudweiserCeltic]

I think what I am denigrating is the lack of historical perspective and balance in the HOF voting. If someone wants to vote Jesus into the hall on the first ballot, go ahead and do it. If the person casting that vote is also failing to first cast a vote for DJ, then, like I said, he doesn’t deserve the right to vote.

Jesus has a sweet jumper. Kobe is pretty to watch. It’s easy to vote for either one of them. What I’m suggesting is maybe the HOF voters actually do their job and look past superficially pleasing things to evaluate talent and impact.

Oh my, Ray Allen has two bad games and it's suddenly a micro-cosmo of his career in the playoffs.  I guess he averaging 23 points per game, 4.4 assists, 4.5 rebounds per game during his playoffs career is suddenly meaningless because he had a couple of bad games.

[ZoSo]

The more I watch the 1986 Finals on DVD the more preposterous I find talk of Ray Allen as a first-ballot HOFer.

The Houston Rockets were one of the best defensive teams in the NBA that year. Yet no matter whom the Rockets put on DJ--Wiggins, Level, Reid--he would either just blow past them or hit a jumper in their face.

He could totally takeover a game at a moment's notice.

By contrast, Ray Allen has now played 11 post-season games for the green, and I've yet to see him do anything faintly resembly hall of fame quality. He rarely drives to the hoop, and when he does, he frequently misses wide open layups.

Until DJ gets in the hall, talk of Ray Allen as a hall of famer must cease.

[ZoSo]

And for those of you who think Sidney Moncrief was a more dominant guard from 1979-1886, you might want to take a gander here:

http://www.nba.com/history/players/moncrief_bio.html

http://www.nba.com/history/players/djohnson_bio.html

Of course, numbers don't tell the whole story, which is why DJ's three rings, one Finals MVP, multiple All-NBA, and multiple All-Defense help provide context.

[clover]

Has the Big Three experiment perhaps shown us that a scorer on a bad team can get a better reputation than is deserved? 

Is it also now showing us that a good player on a bad team also can't be called great, because until a guy's been in and won the big games in the playoffs you just don't know how big he'd come up in those situations?

[Andy Jick]

Ray looks more like Lucifer right now than he does of Jesus...

[Roy Hobbs]

And for those of you who think Sidney Moncrief was a more dominant guard from 1979-1886, you might want to take a gander here:

http://www.nba.com/history/players/moncrief_bio.html

http://www.nba.com/history/players/djohnson_bio.html

Of course, numbers don't tell the whole story, which is why DJ's three rings, one Finals MVP, multiple All-NBA, and multiple All-Defense help provide context.

During that time period, Moncrief was the DPOY twice, was All-Defense five times (four times on the first team), five times All-NBA (as compared to twice for DJ), and a five-time all-star.  He finished in the top-ten in the MVP voting five times during that time period.

DJ had the better career; Moncrief was considered better from '79 - '86.

[ZoSo]

Has the Big Three experiment perhaps shown us that a scorer on a bad team can get a better reputation than is deserved? 

Is it also now showing us that a good player on a bad team also can't be called great, because until a guy's been in and won the big games in the playoffs you just don't know how big he'd come up in those situations?

I also wonder if one problem is the "team" approach on offense. Perhaps Ray and Paul are reluctant to try and take over. I'm all in favor of the Bill Walton, 1977 Trailblazer mode of hoops. But nobody on that team could really go off and score 40. We have two guys, and neither one is scoring much.

Of course, I wasn't complaining during the regular season.

But I do wonder.

[ZoSo]

During that time period, Moncrief was the DPOY twice, was All-Defense five times (four times on the first team), five times All-NBA (as compared to twice for DJ), and a five-time all-star.  He finished in the top-ten in the MVP voting five times during that time period.

DJ had the better career; Moncrief was considered better from '79 - '86.

The bold-red text is the key to your post. There is actually official NBA articles out there alligning Zeke, Magic, and Moncrief.

What a joke.

From 1984-86, Moncrief was a hobled vet, playing on one good leg. DJ was still at the height of his powers.

Exactly the type of contrast I had in mind.

This DJ-as-a-second-tier-guard crap needs to get reconsidered by the basketball gods.

[Andy Jick]

i'm not sure if DJ, in the eyes of most basketball pundits, ever totally pulled himself out of the "selfish" label that was put on him by lenny wilkins.  that's too bad, because DJ was one of the greatest clutch players to ever play the game.  there's no reason, except this, that he's not in the HOF already.