Author Topic: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?  (Read 22205 times)

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Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #45 on: May 05, 2008, 03:36:56 PM »

Offline drza44

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If anyone is interested in a Cavs fan opinion on the series here it is.  First of all, don't pay one bit of attention to how the cavs played in the regular season.  The Cavs play completely different in the playoffs.  Also, don't be too quick to overlook them either.....Detroit thought they were sweeping the Cavs last year and look how that turned out. 

These games are going to be very defense oriented.  The Cavs play excellent defense when it comes time for the playoffs.  Their offense obviously revolves around Lebron, but that doesn't make it easy to stop.  Lebron is going to get his points and give his teammates open looks.  Its whether or not his teammates (West, Gibson, Wally, Z) convert those open looks that will determine the series.

To the fans who think the Cavs were better off with Hughes and Gooden, you are sorely mistaken.  Gooden may have scored some points but his was an airhead.  His defensive rotations were terrible.  As for Hughes...the guy shot 35% but still insisted on jacking 20 shots a game.  I can't say the Cavs will ever miss that

I don't necessarily think the Cavs were a better team before the trade, but I do think they were a more difficult matchup for Boston before the trade.  Pre-trade, KG would have had to follow around the smaller, quicker Gooden on defense and would not have been able to help out much.  With Wallace in there instead, the Cavs are easier to defend in the middle. 

On the perimeter, West and Wally (and Gibson) can be dangerous if they get it going.  But the Celtics were the best 3-point shooting defense in the NBA, so if anything facing a 3-point shooting team is something they were built for.

I think the Celtics SHOULD win in 5.  But I'm sure once the games start I'll have to re-evaluate how the matchup really looks, so I wouldn't be surprised if it went more than that.  But I do think the Celts should win.

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #46 on: May 05, 2008, 03:42:12 PM »

Offline paintitgreen

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I think there are two reasons this is a worse matchup (Lebron is involved and they have rebounded well against the Cs, especially on the offensive glass) but more reasons why this is a better matchup for us than Atlanta was.

1. No underestimation. Game 3 in Atlanta we showed up and played but didn't honestly think they could beat us until it was too late. Game 4, we thought Game 3 was a fluke, made no adjustments then thought it was over when we had a 10 point lead after 3 quarters, so we ended up losing even though Atlanta didn't even play that well. Game 6, again, we thought it was over after the Game 5 drubbing. We consistently underestimated the Hawks, but that won't happen against the Cavs simply because of the amount of respect everybody has for Lebron.

2. Lack of athleticism. The length of Atlanta's 2-4 players clearly bothered us. Smith, Childress and Williams were consistently able to crash the boards from the perimeter to disrupt our defensive rebounding. While Cleveland is a better rebounding team than Atlanta was, they are much more traditional and don't pose the same problems as far as guys crashing the boards from the perimeter and disrupting the defense.

3. Wake up call. After the trouble we had on the glass with Atlanta, I think we'll be focused on that aspect of the game against Cleveland. The Cavs hit the offensive glass very effectively against us, getting 10+ offensive boards in 3 of 4 games. However, I think we're more ready for it now.

4. Bodies match up. Starts with KG. He'll be matched up against lesser offensive players like Joe Smith, Anderson Varejao and Ben Wallace, so he will be more available for help defense and rebounding. The game he didn't play was the one where Cleveland really killed us on the glass. Cleveland had 17 offensive boards to our 22 defensive boards. Keep in mind, we only lost that game by a point in Cleveland.

Beyond KG, we're not going to be stuck playing a 6'6" subpar defender straight up on a 6'7" younger more athletic All Star 2 guard. Instead, Allen will have Wally, Gibson or Delonte. Rondo will have West or Gibson. Both of those matchups will be much better than Joe Johnson or Mike Bibby. Pierce or Posey will have Lebron which is a tougher matchup obviously but those two are much more capable against a guy like Lebron than Allen was against Joe Johnson.

It will come down to the ability of Perkins and Brown to contain Z without fouling him too much, as we don't have the depth at center and Z is actually an outstanding free throw shooter. He's too big for Davis and Powe, but he suits Perk and Brown a bit more. He's older and slower than Horford, and since KG will be more available for help defense on penetration (which can only really come from one source), they can stay at home with Z, something they couldn't do when they had to react to Childress, Smith and Williams crashing in for Atlanta.

5. Pace. Cleveland plays a slow pace, just like we do. The fact is, Atlanta can't play a halfcourt pace at all, which is why we destroyed them at home when we dictated tempo. But they're an effective transition team because they're so athletic, so when they got the tempo going their way in Atlanta, we couldn't keep up.

Even in Cleveland, the Cavs won't be pushing for a transition-type game, they'll be going for a half court set when they want to set the tempo. In fact, we might be the team more aggressively trying to raise the game's pace because Cleveland is too slow to play that type of game (with one obvious exception). Overall, the pace won't be a detrimental factor for us like it was against Atlanta.

Still, Cleveland is significantly better in the halfcourt set than Atlanta was, so I don't see any 20-30 point blowouts in this series. I personally see us taking 3 games by 8-12 points, 1 close game and losing 1 close game. My guess is the Celtics take the first three then drop one in Cleveland (Lebron should be good for at least one win per series, even against a superior team) before clinching at the Garden in 5. That is provided we execute our team defense and Perk and Brown can stay at home on Z without having to spend too much energy on help defense. If Z opens up for a big game or two and the Cavs can control the offensive glass, this will be a long series and it's be hard to predict which way it will go.

And I agree with the Cavs guy. I always thought the trade made them better, I just never thought it made them substantially better as the media seemed to say it did. Suddenly, they were right in the thick of it with Boston and Detroit. Honestly, it helped them a bit, but as I thought when the trade happened, it didn't change them much - before the trade they were going as far as Lebron took them, after the trade they're still going as far as Lebron takes them.
Go Celtics.

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #47 on: May 05, 2008, 04:33:02 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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Gooden may have scored more but he didn't play defense.  KG would have scored at will on him.  KG won;t have to chase Wallace but he will have to chase Andy Varejao on the pick and roll.  Andy's energy is going to be a challenge for KG.

As for the comment on no mid-range jump shooters.  Z and Joe Smith can both hit a mid-range jumper.  This team beat Detroit last year with Eric Snow, Donyell Marshall and Ira Newble getting quality minutes.  Just think about that before you start thinking about how easy of a matchup this will be.

I think all of these games should be close and exciting

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #48 on: May 05, 2008, 04:49:51 PM »

Offline drza44

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Gooden may have scored more but he didn't play defense.  KG would have scored at will on him.  KG won;t have to chase Wallace but he will have to chase Andy Varejao on the pick and roll.  Andy's energy is going to be a challenge for KG.

I think Kevin Garnett is one of the players against whom the Gooden offense/defense trade-off would not have been the net negative that Wallace could potentially be.  KG came into the league as a SF, and his natural tendency on offense is to exploit slower defenders by making them come to the perimeter.  On defense, KG likes to help out off the ball and also crash the boards.

Gooden's quickness and mid-range jumper could have posed some of the same issues for KG's defense that Josh Smith did last round...it would draw him away from the rim and make it harder for him to help his teammates or grab boards.  Wallace or even Varejao can't really take advantage of that consistently.  If anything, Joe Smith and his jumper give me more pause on that front.

At the other end of the court, I don't know that Gooden's lack of defense would have made up for Wallace's complete lack of offense.  At least with his quickness Gooden would have forced KG to go down to the blocks to beat him.  I don't believe that Wallace has the athleticism any more to make things much more difficult on KG in the post than Gooden would have...and at the same time, Wallace can't go out to the perimeter on KG the way that Gooden would have.

Anyway, that's how I feel now.  I could very well be wrong, but I like Garnett's matchups against the Cavs much more than I did against the Hawks, and I also like them more now than I would have if Gooden were still around.

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #49 on: May 05, 2008, 11:51:42 PM »

Offline MMacOH

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If KG starts working the perimeter than Joe Smith will come into the game as he s a much better perimeter defender.  Gooden did actually play okay defense straight up....is when you needed to him to rotate that he would show complete lack of defensive intelligence.

I am interested to see how the Cavs approach their offense in this series.  Usually they play at a slow pace, half court basketball.  That type of offense plays right into the Boston defense though.  The Cavs may try and use a lineup of West, Gibson (or Pavlavich), Lebron, Andy and Wallace and actually run the court to push the pace and try to wear out the more 'expereinced' Celtics

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #50 on: May 06, 2008, 12:03:46 AM »

Offline crownsy

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gotta be honest, out side of lebron, that lineup sounds terrible as a running team.

If they want to try to run a fast break style offense with boobie and ben wallace, more power to them, we'll destroy it.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #51 on: May 06, 2008, 12:06:35 AM »

Offline BASSTHUMPER

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i see the cavs center lightin perk up..perk better respect the dudes set shot..

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #52 on: May 06, 2008, 01:01:45 AM »

Offline jay_jay54

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i see the cavs center lightin perk up..perk better respect the dudes set shot..
Bass thats to funny in a way,but its probably going to be sad but true.tp for that statement.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 09:07:35 AM by jay_jay54 »

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #53 on: May 06, 2008, 08:01:07 AM »

Offline tanner

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Three things: Lebron James, the league-best rebounding team, above-average defense. 

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #54 on: May 06, 2008, 08:52:59 AM »

Offline CT34

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What Do I think of the Cavs?  LeBron James - Outside of Kobe Bryant and Chris Paul I think LeBron James is the only other player in the league that can carry his team to the finals. LeBron James is the reason why I was hoping the Cs face the Wizards.  LeBron James is going to get the MJ treatment by the Refs and the league.  I hope Doc Rivers went back to last year finals vs the Spurs to see how they guarded LeBron. 

The Celtics went 2-2 vs the Cavs granted it should have been 3-1 if Ray Allen was able to make his free throws.  But that's beside the point.  Lebron James is the Black Mamba killer (sorry Kobe).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2008, 09:10:23 AM by CT34 »

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #55 on: May 06, 2008, 08:58:15 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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gotta be honest, out side of lebron, that lineup sounds terrible as a running team.

If they want to try to run a fast break style offense with boobie and ben wallace, more power to them, we'll destroy it.

Well you are talking about Wallace running with Perkins and Boobie runnning with Ray Allen.  Have you seen Ray Allen run?  Have you seen Boobie run?  Varejao is much quicker than Garnett and Lebron is Lebron.  The only player on the C's that could run with that lineup is Rondo and maybe Pierce.  Garnett and Allen will not be able to keep up.

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #56 on: May 06, 2008, 09:05:49 AM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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If KG starts working the perimeter than Joe Smith will come into the game as he s a much better perimeter defender.  Gooden did actually play okay defense straight up....is when you needed to him to rotate that he would show complete lack of defensive intelligence.

I am interested to see how the Cavs approach their offense in this series.  Usually they play at a slow pace, half court basketball.  That type of offense plays right into the Boston defense though.  The Cavs may try and use a lineup of West, Gibson (or Pavlavich), Lebron, Andy and Wallace and actually run the court to push the pace and try to wear out the more 'expereinced' Celtics

Who is running the fast break?  Delonte?  I was never that impressed by his ability to push the ball when he was here.  I guess Lebron could run it, but then who is the finisher?  That lineup has two outside shooters who have trouble with penetration, two offensively inept players, and Lebron.  I'm not that worried about it.

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Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #57 on: May 06, 2008, 09:55:31 AM »

Offline Yakmanev

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Now if we can just get the players to come here and read our suggestions instead of Doc's we'll be in great shape.

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #58 on: May 06, 2008, 10:01:58 AM »

Offline MMacOH

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Who is running the fast break?  Delonte?  I was never that impressed by his ability to push the ball when he was here.  I guess Lebron could run it, but then who is the finisher?  That lineup has two outside shooters who have trouble with penetration, two offensively inept players, and Lebron.  I'm not that worried about it.

That lineup was just something I threw together and honestly would never be on the floor, because of the fact that Wallace and Andy are inept offensively (although Andy can run a pick and roll).  West or Gibson can both run a fast break and Lebron will finish.  That is actually what I realistically can see the Cavs trying to do.  Get out and run if possible with Gibson, West and Lebron.  I would look for those 3 guys to try and really push the tempo.  It's easy to push the ball with Lebron running the floor, just get it down the court and put it somewhere near the rim and Lebron will get it (i.e. Gibsons 14 foot high alley-oop that Lebron threw down in Game 1 against the Wizards)

Re: What Do You Think Of The Cavs?
« Reply #59 on: May 06, 2008, 10:41:22 AM »

Offline Eeyore III

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Thanks MMacOH for the input.  The Cavs are my second team, and I follow them regularly.  It's curious that on this board people with old axes to grind against Delonte and Wally persist in saying that the Cavs got the worst of the trade; not one Cleveland fan thinks that!  Look where Chicago is: a train wreck!

I'll only add that Gooden, for whatever reason, always played the Cs tough.  But that was atypical; he's a non-factor totally.  Joe Smith is much better, although he hasn't received the minutes he should from Mike Brown, IMHO.

This is going to be a dogfight.  I thought the Cavs might not have jelled yet, and they still haven't jelled fully, but they've jelled enough in the last couple weeks to make this series close.

I forsee a game 7 slaughter however, ultimately, sort of like what happened to the Hawks.
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