Would Tatum Make The All-Time Celtics Starting Five?

[slightly biased bias fan]

My sentiment would be that Jayson Tatum just misses out on the best starting five in Celtics history.

Dennis Johnson
John Havlicek
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell

[Donoghus]

Only if you move Bird to the 4. Otherwise, Tatum isn't cracking the starting rotation.  Tatum has already surpassed Truth, though.

PG - Cousy
SG - Hondo
SF - Tatum
PF - Bird
C - Russell

[slamtheking]

My sentiment would be that Jayson Tatum just misses out on the best starting five in Celtics history.

Dennis Johnson
John Havlicek
Larry Bird
Kevin Garnett
Bill Russell

how the hell do you have DJ in the C's top 5? No knock on DJ but there's a number of other C's guards I'd put ahead of him.  Bob Cousy is clearly the number one PG this franchise has had.  I'd also put Mchale over KG as the starting PF.  KG didnt' spend enough time in green to get that honor -- most of his best years were in Minny.

[slamtheking]

Only if you move Bird to the 4. Otherwise, Tatum isn't cracking the starting rotation.  Tatum has already surpassed Truth, though.

PG - Cousy
SG - Hondo
SF - Tatum
PF - Bird
C - Russell

I don't think he's passed PP at all.  PP used to be the top of the league in 4th quarter points and was a clutch scorer - moreso than Tatum has shown.  to be fair, I think part of the issue with Tatum's clutch scoring is the coach he's playing for.  both played in 2 finals and PP didn't shrink in the spotlight unlike Tatum in the finals against GSW. 

[Vermont Green]

It is tough with the different eras.  I would have Havlicek, Pierce, and Tatum all about the same.  You could make a case for any combination of 2 of these 3 for the SG/SF positions.

As to PF, same could be said about Garnett and McHale.  Garnett was more important to the title that he won but McHale has a much longer tenure with the team and more titles.

For PG and C, there is not much question.  Cousy was an MVP while in a Celtic's uniform.  And Russell is Russell.

[A Future of Stevens]

Only if you move Bird to the 4. Otherwise, Tatum isn't cracking the starting rotation.  Tatum has already surpassed Truth, though.

PG - Cousy
SG - Hondo
SF - Tatum
PF - Bird
C - Russell

I don't think he's passed PP at all.  PP used to be the top of the league in 4th quarter points and was a clutch scorer - moreso than Tatum has shown.  to be fair, I think part of the issue with Tatum's clutch scoring is the coach he's playing for.  both played in 2 finals and PP didn't shrink in the spotlight unlike Tatum in the finals against GSW.

I also think he struggles, but the numbers don't really back it up. He leads the league since 19' in game winning shots and has one of the best last 24 seconds of a game fg% since the 90s.

[Roy H.]

Garnett was more important to the title that he won but McHale has a much longer tenure with the team and more titles.

I also think that McHale objectively had a better peak in Boston than Garnett did here.  I'd take 1987 McHale over 2008 KG.

I'd also take peak McHale over peak Tatum.

Russell
McHale
Bird
Havlicek
Cousy

[Vermont Green]

Garnett was more important to the title that he won but McHale has a much longer tenure with the team and more titles.

I also think that McHale objectively had a better peak in Boston than Garnett did here.  I'd take 1987 McHale over 2008 KG.

I'd also take peak McHale over peak Tatum.

Russell
McHale
Bird
Havlicek
Cousy

I am with you on McHale vs. Garnett, I could easily be convinced either way.  But McHale was never the best or most important player on a championship team.  I think Garnett was more important to a BOS title than either McHale or Pierce were.  Tatum was also the most important player on a championship team, more definitively than even Garnett.

I realize that I omitted Bird from my original post.  He is clearly on the all time Celtics team.  So then you have Russell, Cousy, and I guess two of Garnett, McHale, Tatum, Pierce, Havlicek.  But if it is just the best 5, regardless of position, maybe Cousy is not in the top 5.  Cousy is clearly the best all time PG, but is he a top 5 player?  He is clearly not ahead of Russell or Bird and he may not be ahead of any of Tatum, Garnett, Pierce, McHale, Havlicek. 

Cousy and Garnett were both league MVP once (Garnett not while with BOS).  Russell (5) and Bird (3) won MVP multiple times.  There are lots of ways you can look at this.  If you look at accomplishments only while with BOS, Garnett's MVP with MIN does not count, but his title does.  Cousy has an MVP in BOS and multiple titles, but he was not "the guy" for the titles (Russell was for all of Cousy's).  Tatum was "the guy" on a title team but never league MVP (yet).  Pierce and McHale were never "the guy" on a title team or league MVP.  Pierce and McHale were great Robins on a title teams.

[Roy H.]

Garnett was more important to the title that he won but McHale has a much longer tenure with the team and more titles.

I also think that McHale objectively had a better peak in Boston than Garnett did here.  I'd take 1987 McHale over 2008 KG.

I'd also take peak McHale over peak Tatum.

Russell
McHale
Bird
Havlicek
Cousy

I am with you on McHale vs. Garnett, I could easily be convinced either way.  But McHale was never the best or most important player on a championship team.  I think Garnett was more important to a BOS title than either McHale or Pierce were.  Tatum was also the most important player on a championship team, more definitively than even Garnett.

I realize that I omitted Bird from my original post.  He is clearly on the all time Celtics team.  So then you have Russell, Cousy, and I guess two of Garnett, McHale, Tatum, Pierce, Havlicek.  But if it is just the best 5, regardless of position, maybe Cousy is not in the top 5.  Cousy is clearly the best all time PG, but is he a top 5 player?  He is clearly not ahead of Russell or Bird and he may not be ahead of any of Tatum, Garnett, Pierce, McHale, Havlicek. 

Cousy and Garnett were both league MVP once (Garnett not while with BOS).  Russell (5) and Bird (3) won MVP multiple times.  There are lots of ways you can look at this.  If you look at accomplishments only while with BOS, Garnett's MVP with MIN does not count, but his title does.  Cousy has an MVP in BOS and multiple titles, but he was not "the guy" for the titles (Russell was for all of Cousy's).  Tatum was "the guy" on a title team but never league MVP (yet).  Pierce and McHale were never "the guy" on a title team or league MVP.  Pierce and McHale were great Robins on a title teams.

I think Cousy needs to be judged relative to his peers.  14x All-Star, MVP, 3x MBWA MVP, 12x All-NBA (10x First Team)

I think on a relative basis, he's an upper echelon player, moreso than anybody in Celtics history outside of Russell and Bird.

[Jon]

If it?s about accolades, you do Cousy.

But I think if you were actually trying to field a team to actually play a game (in some theoretical universe or a video game), you just put Havlicek at the 1 in a role not too dissimilar from what DWhite is doing now.

Hondo was a great passer, plus you have Bird running the point forward position.

In that world, I probably do:

Havlicek
Tatum
Bird
McHale
Russell

And just overwhelm with size.

And while I loved Pierce and KG, Pierce was never even in the conversation for first team All NBA, and KG really only had one truly elite season here before that leg injury knocked him down a peg.

[Larry for 3]

If it?s about accolades, you do Cousy.

But I think if you were actually trying to field a team to actually play a game (in some theoretical universe or a video game), you just put Havlicek at the 1 in a role not too dissimilar from what DWhite is doing now.

Hondo was a great passer, plus you have Bird running the point forward position.

In that world, I probably do:

Havlicek
Tatum
Bird
McHale
Russell

And just overwhelm with size.

And while I loved Pierce and KG, Pierce was never even in the conversation for first team All NBA, and KG really only had one truly elite season here before that leg injury knocked him down a peg.

Paul Pierce remains criminally underrated in Celtics history especially amongst this new generation of fans. I?ll tell you this ? I?d go to war with Paul Pierce any day of the week over Jason Tatum. Pierce is miles tougher than Tatum will ever be - stabbed 11 times an inch from his life in September 25 2000? played all 82 in 2000-2001 - averaged 25 6 and 3 on 45 % fg and 38% on 3? that?s a warrior and a finals MVP. He?s on my team.

[tenn_smoothie]

No

By the way, where is Dave Cowens name ?
League MVP and the best player of the 70's era that saw us win two championships.

[liam]

Bob Cousey
Reggie Lewis
Larry Bird
Kevin McHale
Bill Russell