How good is Baylor Scheierman?

[Who]

Brad has drafted zero starters. Baylor is probably his best pick so far and he is a borderline rotation player.

I think this is harsh on Baylor. He is better than a borderline a rotation player. The question is how much better?

I don't think he is a starting caliber player. So a bench player. How does Baylor compare to other bench SGs around the league?

I am thinking he is around 10th-15th best bench SG in the league. So a middle of the pack backup SG.

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Here is a list of backup SGs

ATL = Aaron Wiggins
BOS = Baylor Scheierman
BKN = Keon Ellis
CHA = Sion James
CHI = No real backup SG. PGs or forwards. Okoro?
CLE = Sam Merrill
DAL = Klay Thompson
DEN = Peyton Watson
DET = Isaiah Joe
GSW = Moses Moody
HOU = Marcus Smart
IND = Ben Sheppard
LAC = Keaton Wagler
LAL = Cameron Carr
MEM = K Caldwell-Pope or D'Angelo Russell
MIA = Dru Smith
MIL = Brayden Burries
MIN = Josh Green
NOP = Jordan Poole
NYK = Miles McBride
OKC = Cason Wallace
ORL = Anthony Black
PHI = Anfernee Simons
PHO = Jordan Goodwin
POR = Damian Lillard
SAC = Malik Monk
SAS = Devin Vassell or Julian Champagnie (move to bench)
TOR = Ja'Kobe Walter
UTA = Svi Mykhailuik
WAS = Tre Johnson

[Jiri Welsch]

This is a cop out, but I think a lot is context dependent.

By that I mean, what role does the team need their SG to play. A microwave scorer? A solid wing defender? A classic 3-D guy? A combo guard who can take some of the ballhandling load off of their bench PG?

I think the Celtics need someone who does not turn the ball over, can handle the ball adequately, hit open threes, and play solid team defense. Baylor seems like he can do those things effectively.

I don't know what Joe and Co. think they need out of their last starter. It will be interesting who of Hauser, Scheierman, Hugo, and Walsh gets the nod. Last year they rotated that starting role around.

But to answer your initial question: I think he is middle of the pack bench guy who still can improve to something better.

[Who]

So I am looking at my top 10 backup SGs as

Top Tier

Peyton Watson
Cason Wallace
Devin Vassell
Malik Monk
Anfernee Simons
Moses Moody
Ja?Kobe Walter
Jordan Goodwin
Sam Merrill
Aaron Wiggins

Something like that.

Middle of the pack backup SGs

My next 5 guys would be:

Marcus Smart
Keon Ellis
Josh Green

Isaac Okoro
Brayden Burries
Cameron Carr

I'd have Baylor around this area. I'd give them the nod over the 2 rookies here. This is why I reckon he is in that 10-15th range.

Isaiah Joe
Anthony Black
Klay Thompson

So that is my middle of the pack backup SGs.

Bottom tier SGs

Miles McBride = SG in a PG's body
Dru Smith = SG in a PG's body
K Caldwell-Pope / D'Angelo Russell
Sion James = no offense yet
Damian Lillard = not a shooting guard
Keaton Wagler
Ben Sheppard
Jordan Poole = bad offense, terrible defense
Svi Mykhailuik
Tre Johnson = bad offense, terrible defense

[Vermont Green]

He surprised me last season with how much he improved.  In Summer league he looked unfit for the NBA, but then had a decent season.  Based on his level at the end of last season, I think he is a fringe rotation player on a good team.  Not sure how that ranks against all other bench SGs.

The question is if he will have another incremental improvement again this season.

[Celtics4ever]

I voted middle of the pack, SG, he does some nice things but needs to prove more this year with Brown gone.  He is a smart and crafty player.

[slamtheking]

I voted middle of the pack but looking at your list, I could see him cracking that top 10 with just moderate improvement in his D and scoring consistency. 

[Donoghus]

Serviceable rotation guy.  I'm not sure his ceiling is that much higher from what we're already seeing, though.

We have a couple other guys on our roster with much higher ceilings (Hugo & Cenac).

[Celtics2021]

Serviceable rotation guy.  I'm not sure his ceiling is that much higher from what we're already seeing, though.

We have a couple other guys on our roster with much higher ceilings (Hugo & Cenac).

Agreed.  I would say Walsh also has a higher ceiling, just with a smaller chance of reaching it.

But Scheierman is fine.  The shooting came around last year getting to 40% from 3, and the defense was more playable.  I have not seen the playmaking he was supposed to offer, and Hugo has shown more this summer than Scheierman ever has.  At $2.7 million this year he is valuable.  And at $4.9 million next year he is reasonably compensated.  I do not think I would extend him beyond next season without more growth, however, and that combined with our wing depth makes him a trade candidate in my mind.  That said, Pritchard did not look like an extension candidate in year 3, got one anyway, and thank goodness, so I trust management to make the correct call here.

[Goldstar88]

Baylor averaged 5ppg and there were several games where Joe did not play him. He is a borderline rotation player. Shooting was decent last year, defense not so much.

[Celtics2021]

Baylor averaged 5ppg and there were several games where Joe did not play him. He is a borderline rotation player. Shooting was decent last year, defense not so much.

You are very weirdly negative about some things.  Several games he did not play?  He played 77 games, tied for third most on the team, all of two games behind Pritchard. He missed only one game after mid-November.  He averaged over 18 minutes a night for the season, started 20 games, and in his final 44 games (from the time of his first start) played 24 minutes a night.  This continued even after Tatum returned, which would have been a logical time for him to see a decrease in minutes, but he played 25 mpg from Tatum?s first game back onward.  And he averaged 14 minutes per night in the playoffs.  He was squarely in the rotation for a team that won 56 games.  He is not a future star, but he is also way more than a borderline rotation player.  He is much closer to fringe starter. 

[Roy H.]

It depends what his true level of defense is.

Playoff BS played at the level of a 10th to 12th guy on the roster.  He was borderline unplayable.

At times last year his defense was above average, though.  That guy can be a spot starter and a reliable 8th man.

[Goldstar88]

Baylor averaged 5ppg and there were several games where Joe did not play him. He is a borderline rotation player. Shooting was decent last year, defense not so much.

You are very weirdly negative about some things.  Several games he did not play?  He played 77 games, tied for third most on the team, all of two games behind Pritchard. He missed only one game after mid-November.  He averaged over 18 minutes a night for the season, started 20 games, and in his final 44 games (from the time of his first start) played 24 minutes a night.  This continued even after Tatum returned, which would have been a logical time for him to see a decrease in minutes, but he played 25 mpg from Tatum?s first game back onward.  And he averaged 14 minutes per night in the playoffs.  He was squarely in the rotation for a team that won 56 games.  He is not a future star, but he is also way more than a borderline rotation player.  He is much closer to fringe starter.

It is not negativity, I?m just being realistic. Saying guys should be starters when they average 4 or 5 points a game is silly to me. Especially when the team is expected to be a top 3 seed in the East this coming season.

[BitterJim]

Baylor averaged 5ppg and there were several games where Joe did not play him. He is a borderline rotation player. Shooting was decent last year, defense not so much.

You are very weirdly negative about some things.  Several games he did not play?  He played 77 games, tied for third most on the team, all of two games behind Pritchard. He missed only one game after mid-November.  He averaged over 18 minutes a night for the season, started 20 games, and in his final 44 games (from the time of his first start) played 24 minutes a night.  This continued even after Tatum returned, which would have been a logical time for him to see a decrease in minutes, but he played 25 mpg from Tatum?s first game back onward.  And he averaged 14 minutes per night in the playoffs.  He was squarely in the rotation for a team that won 56 games.  He is not a future star, but he is also way more than a borderline rotation player.  He is much closer to fringe starter.

It is not negativity, I?m just being realistic. Saying guys should be starters when they average 4 or 5 points a game is silly to me. Especially when the team is expected to be a top 3 seed in the East this coming season.

Who is saying he should be a starter?

There's a wide gulf between "should be a starter" and "borderline rotation player". Baylor fits squarely in that gulf as a solid bench player.

[Goldstar88]

Baylor averaged 5ppg and there were several games where Joe did not play him. He is a borderline rotation player. Shooting was decent last year, defense not so much.

You are very weirdly negative about some things.  Several games he did not play?  He played 77 games, tied for third most on the team, all of two games behind Pritchard. He missed only one game after mid-November.  He averaged over 18 minutes a night for the season, started 20 games, and in his final 44 games (from the time of his first start) played 24 minutes a night.  This continued even after Tatum returned, which would have been a logical time for him to see a decrease in minutes, but he played 25 mpg from Tatum?s first game back onward.  And he averaged 14 minutes per night in the playoffs.  He was squarely in the rotation for a team that won 56 games.  He is not a future star, but he is also way more than a borderline rotation player.  He is much closer to fringe starter.

It is not negativity, I?m just being realistic. Saying guys should be starters when they average 4 or 5 points a game is silly to me. Especially when the team is expected to be a top 3 seed in the East this coming season.

Who is saying he should be a starter?

There's a wide gulf between "should be a starter" and "borderline rotation player". Baylor fits squarely in that gulf as a solid bench player.

I have read several threads where people have said that Baylor or Hugo should be starting.

[Vermont Green]

It depends what his true level of defense is.

This is probably true.  If you like advanced stats, he had a DRtg last regular season of 109.0, 4th best on the team, sorted for players with more than 35 games.  Behind only Queta, Hugo, and White.  His TS% was 61.6%, 4th best behind Garza, Queta, Walsh.  Pretty solid numbers.  In the playoffs, his DRtg went up a little to 109.9 and TS% down to 57.7%

I am not one that buys totally into advanced stats.  It is part of the story but I go by what I see also.  What I saw on the court was of a fringe rotation guy, say the 8-10 guy.  Someone who plays regularly, but at the end of the rotation.  His defense looked average to me.  If he can elevate that to above average, that would be a big plus.  Not sure we will see that kind of improvement on defense, maybe.