Sixers cap situation?

[LilRip]

A question for all the cap experts on this board! With Embiid, Maxey, Edgecombe and now Jaylen, what does the future of the Sixers cap look like? Surely they can?t afford to pay all their players? And they must be over the tax right? If so, wouldn?t repeater tax and the like start kicking in?

[Roy H.]

A question for all the cap experts on this board! With Embiid, Maxey, Edgecombe and now Jaylen, what does the future of the Sixers cap look like? Surely they can?t afford to pay all their players? And they must be over the tax right? If so, wouldn?t repeater tax and the like start kicking in?

they are above the tax bit below the first apron, similar to us.  They're not subject to the repeater tax as they've been below the tax line in recent seasons.


https://www.spotrac.com/nba/philadelphia-76ers/yearly

[LilRip]

So I suppose that means they have this season to contend, then next season will be a bit tricky in terms of finding help to fill out the roster, and then after that season. . . They might need to blow it up? Assuming they don?t want to hit repeater tax territory.

Meaning this and next season are likely their meaningful years of contention before they lose 1-2 of their core four, does that sound correct?

[Roy H.]

So I suppose that means they have this season to contend, then next season will be a bit tricky in terms of finding help to fill out the roster, and then after that season. . . They might need to blow it up? Assuming they don?t want to hit repeater tax territory.

Meaning this and next season are likely their meaningful years of contention before they lose 1-2 of their core four, does that sound correct?

I haven't really looked at their future cap sheets, but "repeater tax" is pretty small potatoes.  For first apron teams, it's an extra $8 million in tax.  It only applies after a team has finished above the tax in 4 out of 5 seasons.

[jambr380]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

[Neurotic Guy]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

[No Nickname]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

Do we think the Celtics made any kind of offer to Simons this offseason?  If so, could it have been comparable to the Sixers' offer without the C's going over the tax (or could it have been easy to cut a player in order to get under the tax)?

Just wondering if Simons chose between two identical offers and pixed the Sixers over Boston where he could have been a potential starter when/if Paul George is out.

It looks like he's definitely a bench player in Philly.

[LilRip]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

[Celtics2021]

So I suppose that means they have this season to contend, then next season will be a bit tricky in terms of finding help to fill out the roster, and then after that season. . . They might need to blow it up? Assuming they don?t want to hit repeater tax territory.

Meaning this and next season are likely their meaningful years of contention before they lose 1-2 of their core four, does that sound correct?

I haven't really looked at their future cap sheets, but "repeater tax" is pretty small potatoes.  For first apron teams, it's an extra $8 million in tax.  It only applies after a team has finished above the tax in 4 out of 5 seasons.

The issue for them is not the repeater tax so much as it is the aprons.  They have a very shallow roster, relying on a bunch of young, cheap players to fill in the gaps.  That can work (it did for us most of last year) but it can also fall apart.  And unlike our situation last year, most of their cheap guys are not signed next year.  So players like Ariel Hukporti and Dominick Barlow will become more expensive if they are viable rotation players this year.  But even if they walk they will only be able to replace them with other minimums and a small portion of the MLE, because they are likely going to be about $6 million from the first apron before getting to the MLE.  So if they get lucky and hit on some guys, including Simons, this year, they will have to go through something similar next summer, and get lucky on new guys again.  And if they do not get lucky, then they have no depth, on a team that very much needs it given the durability of some of their players.

[Neurotic Guy]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

This has been the heart of some debate.  A player like Giannis has value with a max contract because he is viewed as #1, top 5 or so player.  JB is viewed in a next tier (maybe even 2 tiers below).  While he did get a max contract here and most believed he should have, it expends 35% of the cap for a player who is more top 20 than top 10.  I think the debate has been about whether that tier - guys in the 15-20 range as opposed to top 10 should get max salary.  JB is definitely good enough to be borderline - a guy you have to give max salary to if he's yours but maybe that's just too much of a % of the cap for a player who isn't quite in the league of Wemby, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.... Tatum. 

[SparzWizard]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

This has been the heart of some debate.  A player like Giannis has value with a max contract because he is viewed as #1, top 5 or so player.  JB is viewed in a next tier (maybe even 2 tiers below).  While he did get a max contract here and most believed he should have, it expends 35% of the cap for a player who is more top 20 than top 10.  I think the debate has been about whether that tier - guys in the 15-20 range as opposed to top 10 should get max salary.  JB is definitely good enough to be borderline - a guy you have to give max salary to if he's yours but maybe that's just too much of a % of the cap for a player who isn't quite in the league of Wemby, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.... Tatum.

Don't forget about Luka as part of that league.

[Roy H.]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

This has been the heart of some debate.  A player like Giannis has value with a max contract because he is viewed as #1, top 5 or so player.  JB is viewed in a next tier (maybe even 2 tiers below).  While he did get a max contract here and most believed he should have, it expends 35% of the cap for a player who is more top 20 than top 10.  I think the debate has been about whether that tier - guys in the 15-20 range as opposed to top 10 should get max salary.  JB is definitely good enough to be borderline - a guy you have to give max salary to if he's yours but maybe that's just too much of a % of the cap for a player who isn't quite in the league of Wemby, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.... Tatum.

I'm curious, what makes Tatum part of that group? I know that he gets first team. All-NBA selections, but the others guys are (or were) MVp-tier.

[Who]

I think the idea that only top 5 or top 10 players are worth the supermax is ridiculous. They are worth far more than the supermax. The supermax is artificially low due to the CBA. They would be earning far more if not for other players in the players union forcing them to take these deals with a max salary.

All of the top 10 players in the league are worth north of $100 million a year. They are all underpaid at the super-max.

These other All-Stars (outside top 10) are often worth the $50-60 million they get. It is just that that those MVP and top 10 guys are worth far more than what the supermax allows. They should be earning $100+mil. Probably $150+mil for the MVP guys.

[Neurotic Guy]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

This has been the heart of some debate.  A player like Giannis has value with a max contract because he is viewed as #1, top 5 or so player.  JB is viewed in a next tier (maybe even 2 tiers below).  While he did get a max contract here and most believed he should have, it expends 35% of the cap for a player who is more top 20 than top 10.  I think the debate has been about whether that tier - guys in the 15-20 range as opposed to top 10 should get max salary.  JB is definitely good enough to be borderline - a guy you have to give max salary to if he's yours but maybe that's just too much of a % of the cap for a player who isn't quite in the league of Wemby, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.... Tatum.

I'm curious, what makes Tatum part of that group? I know that he gets first team. All-NBA selections, but the others guys are (or were) MVp-tier.

I don?t disagree. He?s not really where the others mentioned are. But he?s generally regarded as a top 10 player, thus the dot dot dot Tatum.

[LilRip]

Thing is, you just named everybody who matters on their team. They signed Dean Wade and actually did get Anfernee Simons on a great deal, but they have a whole bunch of players you've never heard of before on minimum deals. I suppose it's possible they do some damage - especially if they do land Lebron - but they need a lot to go their way

And odds Embiid is playing in 2 years?  JB, Maxey and Edgecombe are all at that borderline place (Edgecombe probably) of being great players but not really in that rarified league of super max worthy.

How is JB, Mr. FMVP, ECMVP, 6th in MVP, allNBA and allstar not super max worthy? Wasn?t that what he was getting here?

This has been the heart of some debate.  A player like Giannis has value with a max contract because he is viewed as #1, top 5 or so player.  JB is viewed in a next tier (maybe even 2 tiers below).  While he did get a max contract here and most believed he should have, it expends 35% of the cap for a player who is more top 20 than top 10.  I think the debate has been about whether that tier - guys in the 15-20 range as opposed to top 10 should get max salary.  JB is definitely good enough to be borderline - a guy you have to give max salary to if he's yours but maybe that's just too much of a % of the cap for a player who isn't quite in the league of Wemby, Jokic, Giannis, SGA.... Tatum.

Maybe from a fans POV, but players often try to maximize their earnings. If a player is eligible for supermax because they were allNBA and all that, they usually want the supermax. Look at the Donovan Mitchell contract. I doubt he will ever make it to the MVP tier but here we are