Brad Stevens Criticism Thread

[Celtics2021]

Not defending Brad.  But I did find this the most balanced take on the analytics arguments I have seen.  I highly recommend the read.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/did-the-celtics-give-away-jaylen-brown-why-analytics-dont-see-phillys-new-star-as-elite-of-elite-004011270.html?

[ozgod]

I'm reluctant to write him off on the basis of his entire body of work. However sports fans have short memories, and this one trade, viewed negatively, will probably overshadow everything he has done for the franchise so far. Nobody cares about past championships, they care about the here and now.

My thoughts are that I'm reluctant to pass overall judgement on him without knowing the full story. He hasn't even had a chance to explain himself. I feel there's got to be more to this than what's being reported. On its own merits it would appear to be a lopsided trade, trading an All-NBA, All-Star, two way wing who was 2024 Finals MVP and was 6th in MVP voting this season for a guy who by popular consensus had one of the worst contracts in the NBA. And Philly only had to give up two firsts and two seconds to get rid of his contract.

The only way this would make sense is if it is one part of a bigger set of moves that lead to us being a net better team overall. Then you might be able to accept why Stevens appeared to give up a lot for not very much in return. Even taking to account Jaylen's advanced metrics not being great (I posted Jaylen's on/off over his career vs JT and PG13's in this thread he still was an important part of winning a championship, he won Finals MVP and he finished 6th in MVP voting due to his overall production and impact.

Speculating on what we don't know, either of these things could be true, which would be a way of defending (clutching at straws) this decision:

a) there has been a relationship breakdown, either between Jaylen and the organization, or Jaylen and Tatum, that they deemed to be beyond repair, and that could affect the harmony of the locker room. Why this happened after 10 years, who knows. But they do happen. You'd have to think that Jaylen probably knew this was coming, he wouldn't have been blindsided by it.

b) it's about the money. Jaylen is eligible for an extension this year, it would have been at minimum a 2 year $140m extension ($70m AAV) starting in 2029-30, or up to a five year extension at $325m ($65m AAV) if he had reached free agency. It's possible that Brad was thinking ahead and didn't think Jaylen was worth paying that extension for so he moved him now, for a guy who, while being overpaid for his production, will come off the books end of next season.

On its own merits, looking at it in a vacuum, it looks like he got screwed - he gave up an All-NBA asset for a washed up has been. So I'm looking forward to his justification for it, I feel he needs ot do that to settle the fanbase down and help us understand his reasoning.

[johnnygreen]

I can understand wanting to include Brown in the Giannis trade. However, why bother trading Brown for such a bad return, especially when Brown still had 3 years remaining on his contract and that 2 year extension didn't need to be offered.

What happened behind the scenes that we don't know about?

Why has Tatum been so quiet, especially when the league was essentially trashing Brown?

All I know is something stinks and I want to know why.

[johnnygreen]

BTW, I don't blame the new ownership for this. Unfortunately, this all goes back to Wyc. He was the one who gave out all these unnecessary contract extensions (Brown, Holiday, Porzingis, White) before he decided to sell the team. The ramifications of those signings didn't matter to Wyc because he wouldn't be on the hook.

As for Brad Stevens, I have to assume his hands were tied and the league knew it. This is the same guy that built a championship team a few years ago. Then tore it down and somehow managed to get under the apron this past trade deadline. How can that same GM make this Brown trade. Something doesn't add up.

[goCeltics]

I believe he panicked when he lost Portland as a bidder, and they got Morant instead. He should have gone forward with Brown and waited till the trade deadline; the off-season is when I think you are going to get the least value, as teams have more roster flexibility. It was a total panic move, and nobody can tell me otherwise, when he no reason to when he was still under contract

[Celtics4ever]

I believe he was told not to extend Brown by ownership, Brown did not like this and it forced his hand.   I do not buy any of the panic nonsense.   This was a business decision, not a basketball one, it came from the top.

[LilRip]

Not defending Brad.  But I did find this the most balanced take on the analytics arguments I have seen.  I highly recommend the read.

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba/article/did-the-celtics-give-away-jaylen-brown-why-analytics-dont-see-phillys-new-star-as-elite-of-elite-004011270.html?

I think this articulates why Brown has been such a polarizing figure on these forums. His performance next year will be an interesting one to observe. 

[Bobshot]

I wonder if Stevens had anything to do with this deal.

It looks like a salary dump to me.

George has one less year left than Brown--a savings of $60M. Plus they get a couple of #1 draft picks.

The owner is a hedge funder, and he may be following the same path as his fellow hedge funder, Red Sox owner Henry.

Moo said the cash cow.

[Phantom255x]

Only getting back 2 first rounders and not 1-2 more or Edgecomb is crazy

[Celtics4ever]

The owner is a hedge funder, and he may be following the same path as his fellow hedge funder, Red Sox owner Henry.

Moo said the cash cow.

Yep, and we are making business decisions not winning basketball decisions.

[Kuberski33]

BTW, I don't blame the new ownership for this. Unfortunately, this all goes back to Wyc. He was the one who gave out all these unnecessary contract extensions (Brown, Holiday, Porzingis, White) before he decided to sell the team. The ramifications of those signings didn't matter to Wyc because he wouldn't be on the hook.

As for Brad Stevens, I have to assume his hands were tied and the league knew it. This is the same guy that built a championship team a few years ago. Then tore it down and somehow managed to get under the apron this past trade deadline. How can that same GM make this Brown trade. Something doesn't add up.

In their defense - somewhat - the last collective bargaining agreement changed everything. The NBA now becomes almost a fantasy league because there has to be a ton of movement year to year due to the aprons. I think the plan was always - the window is now open, go for it - but while that was going on, the rules changed in a way that was gonna hurt the team in a big way.

To me that still doesn't excuse this trade - you run it back with Jaylen until you can find a better deal.  But every team's window is short now under the current rules so I guess it is what it is.

[LilRip]

I think the outrage is a relic of the past.

In this CBA, teams need to change quickly or risk holding on for too long. Because either you keep your stars and their entire supporting cast crumbles, or you move on from one of your stars (like what we did) and retool the supporting cast in hopes that someone will blossom.

That said, I do wish the Celtics could have squeezed one more 1st rounder out of the Sixers.

[0003323344]

There?s gotta be another trade coming. Brad can?t be that stupid.

[ozgod]

To add to the pile-on on Brad, Bill Simmons is claiming that Giannis was set on picking Boston as a destination over Miami but he wanted a 3 year extension at 35% of the cap (a supermax) while Brad drew the line at 2 years 30% (a max). So the deal fell apart and he picked Miami instead. I guess Giannis had that much influence over which package the Bucks were going to get, Jaylen of the Herro/Ware/Jaques package?

I can vouch that it was Simmons who said this, but I don't know if he is speculating or has facts to back up his statement.

(click to enlarge)

https://x.com/Savageboston/status/2072732216908447875?s=20

[Larry for 3]

To add to the pile-on on Brad, Bill Simmons is claiming that Giannis was set on picking Boston as a destination over Miami but he wanted a 3 year extension at 35% of the cap (a supermax) while Brad drew the line at 2 years 30% (a max). So the deal fell apart and he picked Miami instead. I guess Giannis had that much influence over which package the Bucks were going to get, Jaylen of the Herro/Ware/Jaques package?

I can vouch that it was Simmons who said this, but I don't know if he is speculating or has facts to back up his statement.

(click to enlarge)

https://x.com/Savageboston/status/2072732216908447875?s=20

Replace the word Brad with ownership and you have your answer. Ownership signs off on a contract like that. They are the reason it didn?t happen.