Marc Stein: JB for Jalen Duren S+T being discussed

[Celtics2021]

Seeing this one floated around:

A Potential 3-Team Trade Scenario

Celtics receive:
? Jalen Duren
? Trey Murphy III
? 1-2 future 1st-round pick swaps (From DET)

Pistons receive:
? Jaylen Brown

Pelicans receive:
? Sam Hauser
? Jordan Walsh
? Marcus Sasser
? 2 future 1st-round picks (From DET)

Celtics could save up on their tax while having the MLE/or TPE to upgrade another area and future picks/ pick swaps.

It's not horrible and as long as we get a couple picks too, I might pull the trigger here.

Not really sure why the Pelicans are giving up Trey Murphy for maybe a role player and a few FRPs. Would need way more in a 3-team framework to entice them. Also if they didn't trade him on draft night I'm skeptical they would now

(1) Agreed -- Pelicans not getting enough. Trey Murphy is going to require 3-4 first round picks. He is a better version of Mikal Bridges. You are not getting him for 2 first rounders.

(2) I also do not understand why DET are giving up 2 first round picks and 2 swaps in this deal.

Jalen Duren has major market value. He is about to get $40-50mil a year. If DET do not pay him, somebody else will. He is 22 years old (23 before next season). He is 7 years younger than Jaylen Brown (30 before next season).

DET are not giving up a bunch of picks on top of Duren to get Jaylen Brown. Too young, too valuable. Maybe you get 1 pick out of them. I don't see you getting much more than that.

Murphy is not a better version of Mikal Bridges.  He is a pretty similar version, except he plays 60 games per year instead of 82.  In a world where the Celtics are seeking 4 FRPs for Jaylen Brown, Murphy is worth no more than 2.

[snively]

Trading JB to a 60 win team in the conference would look pretty bad.

[ozgod]

Honestly, do we really want to pay Jalen Duren? When his own fanbase don't want the Pistons to?

This might be a case of "grass is greener on the other side"...then again, probably nearly every other team in the league would fall over themselves to get and pay Jaylen, who we're trying to get rid of 

[A Future of Stevens]

I just don't see why we should trade Brown for anything less than a package that will make us contenders again, or give us the chance to be contenders again.

Swapping Duren and Brown, and the Celtics are noticeably worse. Even if they gave us some picks, it would take a catastrophe for the picks to help catapult us back into contention.

[Who]

Honestly, do we really want to pay Jalen Duren? When his own fanbase don't want the Pistons to?

This might be a case of "grass is greener on the other side"...then again, probably nearly every other team in the league would fall over themselves to get and pay Jaylen, who we're trying to get rid of 

Exactly. I don't see the problem. Keep them together.

[Who]

Seeing this one floated around:

A Potential 3-Team Trade Scenario

Celtics receive:
? Jalen Duren
? Trey Murphy III
? 1-2 future 1st-round pick swaps (From DET)

Pistons receive:
? Jaylen Brown

Pelicans receive:
? Sam Hauser
? Jordan Walsh
? Marcus Sasser
? 2 future 1st-round picks (From DET)

Celtics could save up on their tax while having the MLE/or TPE to upgrade another area and future picks/ pick swaps.

It's not horrible and as long as we get a couple picks too, I might pull the trigger here.

Not really sure why the Pelicans are giving up Trey Murphy for maybe a role player and a few FRPs. Would need way more in a 3-team framework to entice them. Also if they didn't trade him on draft night I'm skeptical they would now

(1) Agreed -- Pelicans not getting enough. Trey Murphy is going to require 3-4 first round picks. He is a better version of Mikal Bridges. You are not getting him for 2 first rounders.

(2) I also do not understand why DET are giving up 2 first round picks and 2 swaps in this deal.

Jalen Duren has major market value. He is about to get $40-50mil a year. If DET do not pay him, somebody else will. He is 22 years old (23 before next season). He is 7 years younger than Jaylen Brown (30 before next season).

DET are not giving up a bunch of picks on top of Duren to get Jaylen Brown. Too young, too valuable. Maybe you get 1 pick out of them. I don't see you getting much more than that.

Murphy is not a better version of Mikal Bridges.  He is a pretty similar version, except he plays 60 games per year instead of 82.  In a world where the Celtics are seeking 4 FRPs for Jaylen Brown, Murphy is worth no more than 2.

I consider Trey Murphy a better version of Mikal Bridges because they have similar skill-sets but (1) Trey Murphy is taller and has more defensive versatility / ability as a result (2) Trey Murphy has more of a scorer's mentality on offense whereas Bridges can be too passive in looking for his own shots.

[ozgod]

I just don't see why we should trade Brown for anything less than a package that will make us contenders again, or give us the chance to be contenders again.

Swapping Duren and Brown, and the Celtics are noticeably worse. Even if they gave us some picks, it would take a catastrophe for the picks to help catapult us back into contention.

I guess I do look at it that way. When looking at trades, I try to look at it like, if we traded Brown, can the incoming package replace his contribution, which is to average in the high mid-25s, defend multiple positions, have proven playoff success and experience? As opposed to "let's trade Brown for the absolute best (potential) version of Jalen Duren/whoever and we will assume they have chemistry with the rest of the team and JT".

Trade him if we can get a package that is an upgrade over what he is giving us now, but we shouldn't be giving him up cheaply because we're tired of seeing his face/don't like his social media/get offended that his "favorite season" comment included factors other than just winning a championship.

I guess it's because as fans, we know Jaylen's flaws better than anyone else, we remember them because they made us feel bad and we think maybe another player will not make us feel as bad. But we don't know those other players as well as their fans do, which is worth thinking about 

[A Future of Stevens]

I just don't see why we should trade Brown for anything less than a package that will make us contenders again, or give us the chance to be contenders again.

Swapping Duren and Brown, and the Celtics are noticeably worse. Even if they gave us some picks, it would take a catastrophe for the picks to help catapult us back into contention.

I guess I do look at it that way. When looking at trades, I try to look at it like, if we traded Brown, can the incoming package replace his contribution, which is to average in the high mid-25s, defend multiple positions, have proven playoff success and experience? As opposed to "let's trade Brown for the absolute best (potential) version of Jalen Duren/whoever and we will assume they have chemistry with the rest of the team and JT".

Trade him if we can get a package that is an upgrade over what he is giving us now, but we shouldn't be giving him up cheaply because we're tired of seeing his face/don't like his social media/get offended that his "favorite season" comment included factors other than just winning a championship.

I guess it's because as fans, we know Jaylen's flaws better than anyone else, we remember them because they made us feel bad and we think maybe another player will not make us feel as bad. But we don't know those other players as well as their fans do, which is worth thinking about 

Brother, I love the dude, and sometimes I underestimate his value.

[A Future of Stevens]

Give me all the picks and players, short of a hammer able deal, WHY trade a top 10 player?

[Vermont Green]

Ozgod

Honestly, do we really want to pay Jalen Duren? When his own fanbase don't want the Pistons to?

This might be a case of "grass is greener on the other side"...then again, probably nearly every other team in the league would fall over themselves to get and pay Jaylen, who we're trying to get rid of

A Future of Stevens

I just don't see why we should trade Brown for anything less than a package that will make us contenders again, or give us the chance to be contenders again.

Swapping Duren and Brown, and the Celtics are noticeably worse. Even if they gave us some picks, it would take a catastrophe for the picks to help catapult us back into contention.

I think the transaction that was proposed was based around BOS gets Duren and Murphy for Brown and Hauser.  I would be OK with getting two solid players for Brown, but I don't see the point of trading him for a lesser player and a bunch of picks.

Duren made 3rd team All-NBA so is probably expecting big money (5 year $287M as I understand it).  I am not sure he is worth that much.  I see him as more of Derrick White level money.  He is only 22 so there could be plenty of ceiling.  I am not even sure if he is on the market but I don't see BOS going near him if they have to pay him max money.