Cedric Maxwell: Hakeem over Bird

[Who]

Cedric Maxwell: "I say the best player I ever played with wasn't Larry. But I played my last year, I played with Hakeem Olajuwon. I think Hakeem Olajuwon was maybe the greatest player of all-time that nobody talks about, because he dominated the floor better than anybody on both ends as ever.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3OdKVzNR6s&t=206s

[Csfan1984]

One of the best all around big man ever if not the best.He is probably a more rare talent at Center than Bird at SF/PF. Not sure rarity makes you better.

[jambr380]

Maxwell already took an undeserved FMVP over Bird, why does he have to go and say something like this? Nobody has Hakeem over Bird on their all time lists, so this just seems like he is being an instigator. We know he didn't like being traded for Walton, was Bird partially to blame for this or something?

[Who]

Maxwell already took an undeserved FMVP over Bird, why does he have to go and say something like this? Nobody has Hakeem over Bird on their all time lists, so this just seems like he is being an instigator. We know he didn't like being traded for Walton, was Bird partially to blame for this or something?

Max was highly complimentary of Bird in the video segment. He just thinks Hakeem is better because Hakeem was a two way player.

It came across more as love for Hakeem than anything negative towards Bird. He said Hakeem was the Greatest Player Ever that nobody talks about. Max showing him some love.

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He talked about getting the Finals MVP over Bird. How he used to trash talk / josh Bird over it. He talked about the Finals series. How Robert Reid bothered Bird and pushed down Bird's scoring but that Bird was so amazing that he still had a huge impact because of his rebounding and assists. Max said he got the MVP in large part because he had a huge closeout game (something like 25pts 13reb).

Anyway, nothing bad about Bird. He spoke highly of him. Loved playing with him. Loved his trash talking.

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Oh, also made a joke that he played with 2 best white players of All-Time in Bird & McHale. Then said he even played with Hondo & D Cowens as well - that he could make the best 5 All-Time of white teammates. Yeah, he probably could. That is one heck of a four man group. Maybe Ainge at PG.

G: Ainge
G: Hondo
F: Bird
F: McHale
C: Cowens

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Also had a story about Jaylen Brown where Max calls Jaylen "MVP" rather than his name and Jaylen responded "takes on [a finals MVP] to know one" which Max loved. He loved the recognition from his peer / modern player.

Max also talked about he got his Finals MVP at the wrong time. Players got a free car for winning the MVP however he only got a cheap Seiko watch in 1981. I don't know when they started giving the cars with the MVP. I know they had it in the 1990s. Not sure about the 80s.

[jambr380]

Thanks for the summary - that's interesting information. Can't say I agree with his logic. Just because somebody is better on defense doesn't mean they are a better player, but whatever at this point. I guess I do get a little bitter about guys like Max and Brown (even Pierce to an extent) winning FMVPs over their clearly better teammates, but they aren't the ones who voted. I certainly wasn't glad that GSW beat us in 2022, but I was really happy for Curry finally getting that well deserved FMVP.

[Moranis]

Hakeem was a lot more than just great on defense though.  He is the definition of a 2-way player.  He led the league in blocks and reb I unding multiple times.  Had multiple seasons of top 10 finishes in steals. Finished 2nd twice in ppg.  He is still 10th all time in total steals and while we all know wilt and Bill almost certainly had more blocks, Hakeem is in the record books and will never be caught (Dikembe is 2nd almost 600 blocks behind him). I have Larry ahead of him, but I donhave Hakeem ahead of Shaq and close to Larry.

[Vermont Green]

These comparisons are always subjective.  I would say that Olajuwon at this peak was maybe more dominant than Bird at his peak (maybe) but I see Bird as being the better overall player from a career standpoint.

As a Center, Olajuwon could do some things that Bird couldn't, block shots and so on.

[A Future of Stevens]

Hakeem was a lot more than just great on defense though.  He is the definition of a 2-way player.  He led the league in blocks and reb I unding multiple times.  Had multiple seasons of top 10 finishes in steals. Finished 2nd twice in ppg.  He is still 10th all time in total steals and while we all know wilt and Bill almost certainly had more blocks, Hakeem is in the record books and will never be caught (Dikembe is 2nd almost 600 blocks behind him). I have Larry ahead of him, but I donhave Hakeem ahead of Shaq and close to Larry.

I agree with Maxwell that Hakeem's greatness is kind of lost to history. I was too young to watch him even at the end, but I loved watching his highlights and post break downs. Truly a 2 way savant who almost has no historical peers.

[Who]

It is interesting to think about their MVP seasons.

Bird was an MVP candidate from day one. He finished 4th as a rookie and was top 3 for the next 8 years winning 3 MVPs. I thought he was slighted with the 4th place finish his rookie year. So 9 years of complete dominance.

Hakeem had a 13 year stretch from his rookie season to 1996-97 when he was a top 5 player every year. But only in 3 of those 13 years was Hakeem a legit MVP candidate - from 1992-93 to 1994-95. In the other years, he was an honourable mention. He has two more top 5 finishes in 1986 and 1996 to give him 5 top 5 finishes compared to Bird's 9. Hakeem won 1 MVP to Bird's 3. Hakeem had 4 more top 10 finishes. There is a big difference between top 10 and top 5 though. You could say Hakeem was punished by being on a mediocre team for most of those years but he also wasn't a top MVP candidate either. He was an honourable mention top 5 kinda guy. Not 1st or 2nd.

[Who]

I think Hakeem's earlier years get a bit over-rated. The guy was a black hole who refused to pass to his teammates yet insisted on having the offense run through him at all times.

He is talked about as being the best all-round center yet did not pass the ball for the first 7-8 years of his career. He only started passing around 1993 and that was when he made the leap from a top 5 talent to a legit MVP guy.

However, that MVP run was short because so much of his career had already passed him by. He had a 3 year run at that level. He was already declining by 1995 when he won his 2nd title. His time a top 10 player in league was over after an injury in the 1997-98 season.

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I have been listening to a bunch of Byron Scott podcasts over the last week or so. Vernon Maxwell was on the show. He was talking about Hakeem. Talking about how amazing Hakeem was but also how difficult he was as a teammate prior to 1992. That Hakeem had a short temper and would often hit his teammates (or anybody else). And that Hakeem never passed the ball.

Max said that all changed when Hakeem became a Muslim and both started to share the ball on offense (thinking more like at team player than a one-man show) and learned to control his temper (so his teammates did not get hit anymore which Max was grateful for). Max was saying it was Dream becoming a Muslim that changed everything for Houston and finally allowed them to play team basketball and win. That all his Rockets teammates could feel the change and were excited that Hakeem was finally passing the ball / playing team basketball (on offense).

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I do think Hakeem's career should be broken up into 3 distinct parts. The 1985-1992 period when he was a black hole + the 1993-1997 when he was an MVP candidate for 3 years and a top 10 player for 2 years + post-prime career from 1999 to whenever he retired when Hakeem was a role player.

I do not think Hakeem was a legit MVP caliber player from 1985-1992.

[jambr380]

I don't know if people underrate Hakeem. I see a lot of all-time posts from various NBA fans and Hakeem is always in the top 10 - often ahead of Kobe. Like Bird, I think his 'greatness' has seen somewhat of a resurgence in recent years. If somebody doesn't rate Hakeem highly, then they just really don't know basketball well

[Larry for 3]

Look. Anyone that?s been around for awhile like me knows where this is coming from. Max has a thing for Larry. It goes back to 1985 and his injury. Larry thinks Max quit in the team that year and he doesn?t appreciate that perception? and then the trade to Clippers ?  Max is over it but he likes to needle Larry when he can. This is him doing that. I don?t think he believes it at all. But he thinks Larry skates on the bar fight that messed up his hand in 85 and Max gets the blame for that Laker loss. Dream is great but he ain?t Larry.

[Moranis]

If I were to tier my all time list it would be something like this

Arguable GOAT - Lebron, Kareem, MJ
4th - Magic
Arguable top 5 - Wilt, Bill, Duncan, Bird
Arguable top 10 - Hakeem, Shaq, Oscar, Curry, Kobe
Arguable top 15 - Moses, Dr. J, West, Durant, Jokic
Top 26 - Mailman, Dirk, Barkley, Giannis, Robinson, KG, Baylor, Pippen