Frontcourt Is Going To Be An Issue This Postseason

[Roy H.]

They don't have similar defensive skill sets.

That was all I was trying to say in my post. Vucevic has talent on the offensive side and could have found some semblance of a groove if he didn't get injured, but he might be the worst defensive Center in the league. We were never going to utilize him enough on offense to make up for his terrible defense.

Al and KP were both much more impactful defensively. It's just so hard to play a Center who doesn't make any defensive impact if you want to win. They'd have to be the Center version of prime Isaiah Thomas.

And while I was upset we paid to get off of a better player in Simons, I didn't absolutely hate the trade when they made it. Vucevic has had a long, mostly productive career, but there comes a time when guys don't quite have it anymore.

Exactly. He got played off the court in this series as he would have been against the Knicks. In the playoffs you can?t justify giving him meaningful minutes. Congrats on saving money Mr. Chisholm.

Prior to the deadline, our bigs were Queta and Garza (both of whom got played off the court, as well).  After the deadline, they were Queta, Garza and Vuc.

It stands to reason that if we didn't make the Vuc trade, we would have been thinner in the front court, not better.

It always made sense to trade for another Center. Since we already had Garza to spread the floor, I assumed it would be more of an athletic banger like Missi or Sharp - a guy who could come in and provide a similar skillset to the one Queta was playing that was mostly successful.

We were also running lineups with Minott, Hugo, and Walsh at Center. And we had Tatum step into that spot in the past (not the best idea coming back from injury).

I genuinely agree that the ideal version of Vooch could have helped this team, but both his energy and playstyle were completely different than what we were employing all year. And then he missed a very important month right before the playoffs. He just always looked very out of place out there.

I don't think Messi is ready to help a playoff team, and reportedly the cost was a first rounder.  Would he have been worth the #27 pick?  Probably, but I don't think he would have helped us get past Philly or New York.

I haven't seen enough of Sharpe to know whether he would have helped.  When the league last evaluated him, nobody offered him more than $6 million or so (going from memory).  He has solid numbers, but I'm not sure how much he would have helped, either.

Vuc didn't work out here.  That's on him, on bad luck, and on bad coaching.  But, even with the full benefit of hindsight, I don't think we advance no matter what we did at the trade deadline.  There's something off with the team at the moment. 

[jambr380]

I would have been fine dropping 10 spots from 27 to 37 to pick up Missi. Heck, maybe that option will even present itself this offseason.

Going into the playoffs, we looked like a contender with Tatum now leading the #2 seed, but looking at how things played out, I guess it's pretty obvious we weren't winning a Title. As you posted in your newly created thread, everybody except Tatum basically underperformed. Maybe they were burnt out from a tough year or maybe Joe had them max out their abilities during a less intense regular season.

So, here we are under the tax, and it is extremely likely we will be under the tax again. Hopefully we can at least be a fun, competitive team next year. At least we'll likely have somebody better than Vucevic in the back up Center role.

[Who]

With both Tatum and Brown, the big man needs to be mostly a spot up floor spacing big man.  An uber talent like KP can do a bit more pick and rolls, but even KP had to adjust a fair amount to really make it work. 

There aren't a lot of offenses you can run with 2 wings with the skill sets of Tatum and Brown, especially when they are both on the floor.  Neither one has the ball handling or playmaker abilities of the other great wing duos in history (Lebron/Wade and MJ/Pippen).  JT and JB really only work well in an offensive system similar to the one Boston runs.  Now if you swapped one out for a similarly talented player that wasn't a wing, a lot more options would open up.

I don't think they need a spot up shooter next to the Jays. I think the Jays can make any type of center work with them. They have good versatility. More so than some other stars.

The Jays have a good track record with a variety of bigs. We have the high post facilitator in Horford to more of a spot-up shooter Horford towards the end. We have a versatile inside-outside scoring threat in Porzingis. We have rim runners in Queta and Kornet. We've had D Theis. We had Kanter who worked well on offense next to the Jays but couldn't play defense.

I have always liked having a passing big next to Tatum & Jaylen. We become too dribble-happy and perimeter orientated with them. Having a big inside the defense you can throw the ball to. Three ways to penetrate a defense - dribble behind them, pass it behind them, shoot and go for an offensive rebound. When we become too perimeter orientated it allows the opposition to put 5 defenders in between the ball and the rim. When you have a big man who can pass, you can move it inside to 17-20 feet, then the perimeter guys gotta turn their head because the ball has gone past them and is now inside the defense. Creates opportunities for off ball movement. Gets the defense off balance.

I have always liked having a good passing big because like you say the Jays are not top level ball-handlers / playmakers. Tatum is good. Jaylen is middling.

What we did differently in the 2024 season was having Jrue & D White together in the backcourt. That gave 2 more ball-handlers so now they had 4 dribble drive threats. With that extra driving capacity and passing quality from the guards, the passing of the big man was less important. We can re-create that but we have to replace Jrue.

If we don't re-create that dynamic and instead go back to a 1 guard 3 wings 1 big configuration, I like going back to involving the center more as a passer. Take some of the pressure of the Jays as ball-handlers / playmakers. Allow them to get it in more variety of situations instead of trying to create everything off the dribble from 25 feet against a set defense.

But ultimately, I believe just about any type of big man will work next to the Jays. It is just about talent in my eyes. Get the best talent center you can and the Jays will make it work.

--------------------

The players I am more worried about having specific types of centers are:

(1) The ball dominant heliocentric stars with strong playmaking ability like Luka or Harden who often love to have a rim runner next to them. Or Trae Young.

(2) Guys who are deficient shooters and hamper spacing and therefore need a center next to them who can shoot. Like Giannis.

The Jays I believe can work with anyone.

[Celtics4ever]

We had no front court players that could body up with Embiid and stop him from backing them down.  We do need a strong big, with Embiid there will be some fouls.  A lot of the guys below in this list are not still playing.


https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/centers-who-best-defensive-rating-against-embiid


I suggested Sharpe because we wanted to sign him last season.  If he has the Brad Stevens seal of approval, I like the player.  He is not a world beater but hustles and rebounds.    I don't think he is a floor spreader.

The Celtics previously attempted to acquire him in the 2025 off season, but he remained in Brooklyn, as confirmed by Basketball-Reference.com.

I would like to see us draft  Morentz Johnson JR of Tarris Reed JR.  Neither spreads the floor but Morenz shows some skill  at 34% he just did not take them at a high volume.  Both of these guys can clog the lane.   Reed is an old school center.  We have guys playing PF who really are not suited to the position aside from Tatum.   I do think we need a ball handling guard as well.

Heck, even Drummond looked good against us.

[Roy H.]

I suggested Sharpe because we wanted to sign him last season.  If he has the Brad Stevens seal of approval, I like the player.

Keep in mind that Brad offered to sign him to the minimum, as a restricted free agent.

[Celtics4ever]

That is true, I am trying to misrepresent that.   I just said we had interest.