Frontcourt Is Going To Be An Issue This Postseason

[Moranis]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

Who knows what might have been out there had they actually been interested in making moves.   

[jambr380]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

[Moranis]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

Those make sense.  Had Boston been willing to trade White, I think there were a lot of potential trades. 

[Roy H.]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

[Vermont Green]

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

People need to realize this.  Trading for Vucevic was a good trade.  That it saved money too does not make it a bad trade.

The question is what other moves could have been done.  Were other moves passed on just to stay under the tax?  I don't know for sure this second part.  It has been debated for several pages and there is nothing definitive stated as a trade they didn't do just to save money.

[jambr380]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

There were reports that we had significant interest in JJJ. I imagine it would have been something like Simons, Hauser, and two 1sts.

I don?t really care about our 1st this year. It?s at #27. If we had traded it and kept the Pelicans pick, it wouldn?t have been that much of a downgrade. For Ayo or Missi, that would have been fine.

Vucevic was a Center making the right level of money to get us under the tax. He checked all the boxes. But he definitely wasn?t this highly coveted asset. 35 year old Vucevic is closer to being out of the league than a valuable rotation piece

[Roy H.]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

There were reports that we had significant interest in JJJ. I imagine it would have been something like Simons, Hauser, and two 1sts.

I don?t really care about our 1st this year. It?s at #27. If we had traded it and kept the Pelicans pick, it wouldn?t have been that much of a downgrade. For Ayo or Missi, that would have been fine.

Vucevic was a Center making the right level of money to get us under the tax. He checked all the boxes. But he definitely wasn?t this highly coveted asset. 35 year old Vucevic is closer to being out of the league than a valuable rotation piece

In what way is Simons + Hauser + two #1s better than what Utah traded?  They gave up three #1s (2027 LAL, 2027 UTA, 2031 PHX), Walter Clayton Jr. and Taylor Hendricks.

[Vermont Green]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

There were reports that we had significant interest in JJJ. I imagine it would have been something like Simons, Hauser, and two 1sts.

I don?t really care about our 1st this year. It?s at #27. If we had traded it and kept the Pelicans pick, it wouldn?t have been that much of a downgrade. For Ayo or Missi, that would have been fine.

Vucevic was a Center making the right level of money to get us under the tax. He checked all the boxes. But he definitely wasn?t this highly coveted asset. 35 year old Vucevic is closer to being out of the league than a valuable rotation piece

In what way is Simons + Hauser + two #1s better than what Utah traded?  They gave up three #1s (2027 LAL, 2027 UTA, 2031 PHX), Walter Clayton Jr. and Taylor Hendricks.

That and the fact that Jackson didn't play the rest of the year due to injury.

[jambr380]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

There were reports that we had significant interest in JJJ. I imagine it would have been something like Simons, Hauser, and two 1sts.

I don?t really care about our 1st this year. It?s at #27. If we had traded it and kept the Pelicans pick, it wouldn?t have been that much of a downgrade. For Ayo or Missi, that would have been fine.

Vucevic was a Center making the right level of money to get us under the tax. He checked all the boxes. But he definitely wasn?t this highly coveted asset. 35 year old Vucevic is closer to being out of the league than a valuable rotation piece

In what way is Simons + Hauser + two #1s better than what Utah traded?  They gave up three #1s (2027 LAL, 2027 UTA, 2031 PHX), Walter Clayton Jr. and Taylor Hendricks.

That and the fact that Jackson didn't play the rest of the year due to injury.

A lot of guys on tanking teams just happened to miss the rest of the season. I understand that he actually had a small surgery, but he was able to begin on court basketball activities in March and then the Jazz shut him down.

I saw people bringing up Simons? injury, but it was literally the same injury that he started the season with. The Bulls weren?t about to let Anfernee Simons ruin their tanking plans.

Either way, even though, people disagree, I do think there were ways to improve the team; but I understand the financial aspect to all of this, too, even if it?s not better for the fan experience

[DefenseWinsChamps]

A bright spot over the last week is clarity.

Vucevic, Garza and Queta are nice players, but they can't be the backbone of your frontcourt if you want to win a championship. They are rotation guys, but you have to have a guy.

Now, maybe the step up in a huge way in game 7 and take a step forward. That may be a clarifying moment as well.

Man do I miss Al.

[Vermont Green]

A bright spot over the last week is clarity.

Vucevic, Garza and Queta are nice players, but they can't be the backbone of your frontcourt if you want to win a championship. They are rotation guys, but you have to have a guy.

Now, maybe the step up in a huge way in game 7 and take a step forward. That may be a clarifying moment as well.

Man do I miss Al.

I will make it into a math equation:

[ Queta + Vucevic + Garza ]  <  [ Porzingis + Horford + Kornet ]

                 $26.3M               <                    $47.4M

I actually don't think Queta, Vucevic, Garza have been as bad as what they have been made out to be.  They are getting exposed some in the playoffs by Embiid, but it is not like Porzingis, Horford, Kornet would be twice as good.

[Who]

A bright spot over the last week is clarity.

Vucevic, Garza and Queta are nice players, but they can't be the backbone of your frontcourt if you want to win a championship. They are rotation guys, but you have to have a guy.

Now, maybe the step up in a huge way in game 7 and take a step forward. That may be a clarifying moment as well.

Man do I miss Al.

I'm not sure about this. I agree that in the here and now they are not good enough but I feel more is still to come from both Queta & Vucevic. I would bring them both back next year.

I believe Queta will benefit a lot from the experience & confidence he gained this season. This playoff run has been a learning lesson for him. He can still improve. I would give him more time.

Vucevic. I think we are only getting about 30% out of him of what he is capable of giving us. He never got settled here. Midseason trade. Injury. Not enough games. Not enough reps. The team doesn't utilize him on offense which is his best trait. Bring him back here and give him a full season and I believe we will see much more out of him next year.

Garza is what he is. An offensive minded 3rd string center. A good option to have as your 3rd stringer although if Vucevic is one of your top 2 centers maybe you are better off with a defensive minded 3rd stringer instead. It has been difficult to have 2 defensively challanged backup centers behind Queta. Queta is the only guy we can (sorta) rely on defensively. So I might move on from Garza in the summer.

[Who]

A bright spot over the last week is clarity.

Vucevic, Garza and Queta are nice players, but they can't be the backbone of your frontcourt if you want to win a championship. They are rotation guys, but you have to have a guy.

Now, maybe the step up in a huge way in game 7 and take a step forward. That may be a clarifying moment as well.

Man do I miss Al.

I will make it into a math equation:

[ Queta + Vucevic + Garza ]  <  [ Porzingis + Horford + Kornet ]

                 $26.3M               <                    $47.4M

I actually don't think Queta, Vucevic, Garza have been as bad as what they have been made out to be.  They are getting exposed some in the playoffs by Embiid, but it is not like Porzingis, Horford, Kornet would be twice as good.

I go the other way.

I think if we had Kornet alone, we would have already won the series. Having his solid defense would be that impactful.

I also think Horford with how well he plays Embiid one-on-one, would be enough to tilt the series in our direction. So having both Horford and Kornet to put out there along with Queta would be huge. That Boston would have already advanced.

That is not counting Porzingis. Just Horford and Kornet. And even if we couldn't have both of them ... if we just had one of them, I believe that would be enough to change the series.

[Moranis]

As I said earlier in the thread, I totally get the moves over the summer when pretty much everyone thought Boston wasn't going to be very good and it looked like Tatum was going to miss the year.  Getting out of the tax and going for a high draft pick in a good deep draft made sense.  My issue is what the team did at the deadline.  At the deadline, the team was good and clearly going to make the playoffs, Tatum was progressing well, and the East was wide open.  Boston should have gone for it.  Plan should have changed when circumstances changed.

That's a fair POV, but I have yet to see anybody propose a deadline trade that was realistic, worked under the CBA, and made us better.  We could have taken on about $8 million in salary to remain under the first apron.

I said it before, but I think Dosunmu would have made us better and I think Jaren Jackson Jr would have made us better. I would rather have rolled with Simons and added a big like Yves Missi or Dayron Sharpe.

There were ways to improve the team - some more expensive than others - but bringing on Vucevic strictly for tax purposes and hoping he won?t suck wasn?t awesome, even at the time.

And since we ducked the tax this year, it only makes sense for us to do it next year, especially with so many guys on the last year of their cheaper contracts. I just think that?s disappointing. We didn?t even get an awesome pick out this gap year like the Pacers did

What was the Jackson trade we could have made, and how would we have kept the team together going forward?

I liked Dosunmu, as well, but I don't think we could have beat Minnesota's offer without including a #1 or Hugo, and he most likely would have been a rental.

Yves Messi is a project, yet would have cost a first rounder.  Simons missed the last two months of the season.

Lastly, Vuc wasn't brought on strictly for tax purposes.  The team figured it would be better with Vuc than Simons, particularly with Tatum coming back.

My guess is that if Brad had done any of the suggested moves certain folks would still be complaining.

There were reports that we had significant interest in JJJ. I imagine it would have been something like Simons, Hauser, and two 1sts.

I don?t really care about our 1st this year. It?s at #27. If we had traded it and kept the Pelicans pick, it wouldn?t have been that much of a downgrade. For Ayo or Missi, that would have been fine.

Vucevic was a Center making the right level of money to get us under the tax. He checked all the boxes. But he definitely wasn?t this highly coveted asset. 35 year old Vucevic is closer to being out of the league than a valuable rotation piece

In what way is Simons + Hauser + two #1s better than what Utah traded?  They gave up three #1s (2027 LAL, 2027 UTA, 2031 PHX), Walter Clayton Jr. and Taylor Hendricks.

what if White was moved i stead of Simons. Maybe to GS for Podz, Kuminga, and maybe a 1st. Reroute Kuminga and the 1st along with Hauser and our 2 1st.  So you get Jackson and Podz for White, Hauser, and 2 1st. 

Again, the drive to get out of the tax eliminated all those sorts of trades. They punted the season at the deadline when they should have gone for it.