Revisiting Last Fall

[chicagoceltic]

Nah Leprechaun, I know you have been right there with me (and Larry) and a few others on this board objecting to Joe's one-dimensional offense.

Your comment about the 2025 Knicks games 1 & 2 being a fireable offense is not hyperbole. I've never seen anything quite like those two games in succession with zero attempt at adjustments as two must-win playoff games that included 20-point leads go up in flames. Seems those disasters and Joe's incompetence got lost in the chaos after Tatum's injury.

We did not shoot the 3's well tonight in game 1 vs Philly and stubbornly kept firing away, but it didn't matter because of the blowout.
I love our bench guys as well because they play so hard and bring an extra dimension to our team the way they fight for offensive rebounds and loose balls.
Playoff defenses are much better than the regular season. I hope we don't repeat the playoff disaster of 2025.

I can't predict how much success the team will have, but if we don't make the conference finals, the narrative will shift to Mazz being a regular season coach. People will note that he fell beind 3-0 to an 8 seed, had a relatively easy path to a championship (granted the team did dominate), and blew two home leads against the Knicks. Call me cynical (which is probably true), but if we don't win at least two series, this will all come out.  If I'm wrong, I'll be happy for everyone to repost this.

I for one hope that we do not find out whether you are wrong or not.

[Donoghus]

Nah Leprechaun, I know you have been right there with me (and Larry) and a few others on this board objecting to Joe's one-dimensional offense.

Your comment about the 2025 Knicks games 1 & 2 being a fireable offense is not hyperbole. I've never seen anything quite like those two games in succession with zero attempt at adjustments as two must-win playoff games that included 20-point leads go up in flames. Seems those disasters and Joe's incompetence got lost in the chaos after Tatum's injury.

We did not shoot the 3's well tonight in game 1 vs Philly and stubbornly kept firing away, but it didn't matter because of the blowout.
I love our bench guys as well because they play so hard and bring an extra dimension to our team the way they fight for offensive rebounds and loose balls.
Playoff defenses are much better than the regular season. I hope we don't repeat the playoff disaster of 2025.

I can't predict how much success the team will have, but if we don't make the conference finals, the narrative will shift to Mazz being a regular season coach. People will note that he fell beind 3-0 to an 8 seed, had a relatively easy path to a championship (granted the team did dominate), and blew two home leads against the Knicks. Call me cynical (which is probably true), but if we don't win at least two series, this will all come out.  If I'm wrong, I'll be happy for everyone to repost this.

I for one hope that we do not find out whether you are wrong or not.

We won't.  This team is going farther than the conference semis.

[nickagneta]

Nah Leprechaun, I know you have been right there with me (and Larry) and a few others on this board objecting to Joe's one-dimensional offense.

Your comment about the 2025 Knicks games 1 & 2 being a fireable offense is not hyperbole. I've never seen anything quite like those two games in succession with zero attempt at adjustments as two must-win playoff games that included 20-point leads go up in flames. Seems those disasters and Joe's incompetence got lost in the chaos after Tatum's injury.

We did not shoot the 3's well tonight in game 1 vs Philly and stubbornly kept firing away, but it didn't matter because of the blowout.
I love our bench guys as well because they play so hard and bring an extra dimension to our team the way they fight for offensive rebounds and loose balls.
Playoff defenses are much better than the regular season. I hope we don't repeat the playoff disaster of 2025.

I can't predict how much success the team will have, but if we don't make the conference finals, the narrative will shift to Mazz being a regular season coach. People will note that he fell beind 3-0 to an 8 seed, had a relatively easy path to a championship (granted the team did dominate), and blew two home leads against the Knicks. Call me cynical (which is probably true), but if we don't win at least two series, this will all come out.  If I'm wrong, I'll be happy for everyone to repost this.

Besides doing all that he did win a title, right? Winning championships happen in the post season, right?

Perhaps he's just a really good coach, regardless if pre-, regular or post-season and being 1 for 3 in winning a title in post seasons is pretty dang great given normally, you don't win it all every year

[tenn_smoothie]

Celtics won the title in spite of Mazzulla.
Overwhelming talent who were willing to play together and a very easy path through the playoffs.
Also, it's not that he lost in the playoffs, it's the way he lost to less talented teams.

[slamtheking]

Celtics won the title in spite of Mazzulla.
Overwhelming talent who were willing to play together and a very easy path through the playoffs.
Also, it's not that he lost in the playoffs, it's the way he lost to less talented teams.

this.

I'll give him credit for getting this bunch to overachieve (IMO) this year but his dogmatic resistance to changing his offensive schemes from a "relentlessly bomb from 3" strategy to a more-balanced offense that can still get points when the outside shooting is cold hurts this team.  Add in his weak ATO plays and inability to make changes during a game to address things that aren't working on offense or defense are glaringly bad.

[Moranis]

Mazz came in and Boston became the best offense in the sport and he maintained a top 5 defense.  Under Ime they were 7th in offensive net rating (2nd defensive).  That Ime year, the expected W/L was 59-23, yet they were 51-31.  Mazz's 1st year with a much worse assistant staff, they were 2nd in offensive earing and 3rd for defense.  Their expected W/L and the actual record were identical at 57-25.  Mazz's 2nd year, they win the title. Either 1st offense and 3rd defense.  Expected W/L was 66-16 vs. actual of 64-18. Last year, 2nd and 5th, 62-20 vs  61-21.  This year, without Tatum, 2nd and 4th, 59 expected, 56 actuall.  Without Tatum, without Jrue, without Al, without Kornet. 

Mazz is an excellent coach at getting the best out of a team.  He has consistently had a top flight offense and defense.  His systems work.  The team over achieves while consistently having a ton of roster turnover and injuries.  Is he the best coach at drawing up a play on the fly, no, but his system works when the players execute.  And the players execute the vast majority of the time. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Mazz came in and Boston became the best offense in the sport and he maintained a top 5 defense.  Under Ime they were 7th in offensive net rating (2nd defensive).  That Ime year, the expected W/L was 59-23, yet they were 51-31.  Mazz's 1st year with a much worse assistant staff, they were 2nd in offensive earing and 3rd for defense.  Their expected W/L and the actual record were identical at 57-25.  Mazz's 2nd year, they win the title. Either 1st offense and 3rd defense.  Expected W/L was 66-16 vs. actual of 64-18. Last year, 2nd and 5th, 62-20 vs  61-21.  This year, without Tatum, 2nd and 4th, 59 expected, 56 actuall.  Without Tatum, without Jrue, without Al, without Kornet. 

Mazz is an excellent coach at getting the best out of a team.  He has consistently had a top flight offense and defense.  His systems work.  The team over achieves while consistently having a ton of roster turnover and injuries.  Is he the best coach at drawing up a play on the fly, no, but his system works when the players execute.  And the players execute the vast majority of the time.

After watching some of the play-in games and rooting for teams like the Magic and Hornets, I looked at my kids and said, "Do you have any idea how lucky we are as Celtic fans to watch our offense every night? Can you imagine cheering for these teams as they try ineffictively to create good offensive opportunities?

[jambr380]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

[Moranis]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

expected W/L is formula based on the actual stats.  Bball-ref and a few other sites use it. 

[Donoghus]

FWIW, the wins totals odds for 2021-22 had the Celtics btw 46.5-47.5

[Roy H.]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

expected W/L is formula based on the actual stats.  Bball-ref and a few other sites use it.

Which, like some many of the "stats" you cite, is completely devoid of context.

Ime had to completely reshape that team.  It continued to play around .500 while he implemented his system and accountability, and then went on an absolute tear where they were crushing opponents.  The point differential from January on was so good that it breaks Expected W-L's formula.

[Who]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

Agreed. Ime built the base that Mazzula has been able to take advantage of + build on himself to make stronger. Ime did a great job here.

[Moranis]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

expected W/L is formula based on the actual stats.  Bball-ref and a few other sites use it.

Which, like some many of the "stats" you cite, is completely devoid of context.

Ime had to completely reshape that team.  It continued to play around .500 while he implemented his system and accountability, and then went on an absolute tear where they were crushing opponents.  The point differential from January on was so good that it breaks Expected W-L's formula.

or the talent got better through trades and the team got healthier. They were 20-6 with White after he was traded here and most of the injuries to key players were early that season. 

Houston has stagnated even after adding Durant.

[Goldstar88]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

Brad made it to the ECF several times with those players. Ime took over a talented team, they just needed a new voice. As we are seeing in Houston, Udoka is an average coach.

[Donoghus]

The Ime year they were expected to go 59-23? Who was expecting that? The team was coming off a .500 season and first round exit.

That team then started the season 18-21, so being able to get to 51-31 (finishing 33-10) was actually super impressive.

Brad made it to the ECF several times with those players. Ime took over a talented team, they just needed a new voice. As we are seeing in Houston, Udoka is an average coach.

They were a .500 team that had plateaued and had roster flaws. Things were not trending in the right direction.  The combination of roster moves and a new approach by Udoka breathed life into that team.  And even that had growing pains & took time during the '21-22 season.