MassLive Celtics' Quarter Century Team

[Donoghus]

Good read here.  2nd team is a tough one to put together.  My one quarrel would be IT4 being left off but I'm not sure who you'd replace.

https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2025/12/celtics-newest-icons-and-champions-fill-masslive-quarter-century-team.html

First Team

-Pierce
-Garnett
-Tatum
-Brown
-Rondo

Second Team

-Ray
-Smart
-White
-Horford
-Antoine

Coach: Doc
GM: Danny

[Vermont Green]

Funny, people rank Rondo way higher than I would.  I would have IT higher and also Derrick White, Holiday, and even Smart.  How does someone like Kyrie Irving fit into this?  He is way better than Rondo.

I know people will jump all over Marcus Smart, but if he was on that 2008 era team instead of Rondo, that team still wins titles.  Smart is a much better shooter than Rondo (there are not many players you can say that about Smart), probably better defender, and a good enough passer.

[Celtics2021]

I would put IT over Antoine.  If it is truly a quarter-century team then there are really only 2-3 seasons of Walker that can be considered, and I would take IT in that comparison.  The 01-02 Celtics had a nice surprise run to the conference finals, but it was a surprise, and Pierce was the true leader of that team.  The 16-17 Celtics also made the conference finals, but as a #1 seed, and IT was the undisputed engine from that team.

[Roy H.]

Yeah, the first team is a no brainer.  The second team is tricky.

If you care about longevity and intangibles, Smart belongs on the team.  If it's wanting elite talent over a short time period (3 years) it's IT4.

Antoine is the other debatable one, both because he only played 3.5 years here this century and because of the style of his game.  I'd be tempted to take Perk over him.  But, I have no qualms with recognizing Toine, either.  I loved Employee #8.

[slamtheking]

second team I'd swap out IT for Smart.  that last season by IT was on a level I'd only ever seen Bird produce.

would keep Toine over Smart because being a Celtic really meant something to him

[Who]

Funny, people rank Rondo way higher than I would.  I would have IT higher and also Derrick White, Holiday, and even Smart.  How does someone like Kyrie Irving fit into this?  He is way better than Rondo.

Longetivty perhaps.

Rondo = 9 years

IT = 2 and a half years
Kyrie = 2 years
Jrue = 2 years

D White = 4 years

M Smart = 9 years

Smart is the only one that can compare to Rondo in terms of longevity and overall contribution to the Celtics over the last 25 years. The others may have peaked higher than Rondo but their stays were short.

[Redz]

Funny, people rank Rondo way higher than I would.  I would have IT higher and also Derrick White, Holiday, and even Smart.  How does someone like Kyrie Irving fit into this?  He is way better than Rondo.

Longetivty perhaps.

Funny, the other day I saw Rondo's name on the list of all-time assists leaders and was surprised until I remembered how long he hung around for.

[Who]

I was wondering was there any argument for Ray over Jaylen.

Ray Allen = only here 5 years vs 10 years for Jaylen. Ray had 3 All-Star appearances vs 4 for Jaylen. 358 games played vs 632 games played. Each won a title. Each went to a 2nd Finals.

Nah, looks cut and dry for Jaylen.

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To look at it another way, Jaylen was a bench player his first season and a solid starter his next two years (14ppg 28mpg). Ray arrived as a start and gave us maybe 4 star level seasons before dropping to solid starter level in his final year. So 4 star seasons for Ray vs 6 for Jaylen. It is closer. Also the All-Star selections 3 vs 4. Rather than overall years on the team which is 5 vs 10. I do think the number of star level seasons is a better barometer for how close this matchup is.

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Ray the superior offensive player. One of the greatest jump-shooters off all time. Far more efficient offensively. Jaylen having the advantage in one-on-one defense being far superior of Ray.

[Amonkey]

I was wondering was there any argument for Ray over Jaylen.

Ray Allen = only here 5 years vs 10 years for Jaylen. Ray had 3 All-Star appearances vs 4 for Jaylen. 358 games played vs 632 games played. Each won a title. Each went to a 2nd Finals.

Nah, looks cut and dry for Jaylen.

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To look at it another way, Jaylen was a bench player his first season and a solid starter his next two years (14ppg 28mpg). Ray arrived as a start and gave us maybe 4 star level seasons before dropping to solid starter level in his final year. So 4 star seasons for Ray vs 6 for Jaylen. It is closer. Also the All-Star selections 3 vs 4. Rather than overall years on the team which is 5 vs 10. I do think the number of star level seasons is a better barometer for how close this matchup is.

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Ray the superior offensive player. One of the greatest jump-shooters off all time. Far more efficient offensively. Jaylen having the advantage in one-on-one defense being far superior of Ray.

I think the biggest difference is that Ray is known as one of the best shooters so he has that unique specialty label. However, Jaylen Brown has a much more well rounded game to his belt and much more athletic. I think at this point, Ray has had a much better career than Brown considering his time in Seattle but Jaylen Brown is not far behind in overall game.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It's got to be Jrue or Zinger over Antoine. I love Antoine, but he's not a winner like those guys. Heck, I'd even take Zinger's one championship season with us over Rondo in the starting lineup.

I'd be good going big with Horford instead of Rondo as a starter too.

And I'd take Brad over Doc.

[Roy H.]

It's got to be Jrue or Zinger over Antoine. I love Antoine, but he's not a winner like those guys.

What makes Zinger more of a winner than Antoine?

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I was wondering was there any argument for Ray over Jaylen.

Ray Allen = only here 5 years vs 10 years for Jaylen. Ray had 3 All-Star appearances vs 4 for Jaylen. 358 games played vs 632 games played. Each won a title. Each went to a 2nd Finals.

Nah, looks cut and dry for Jaylen.

-------------

To look at it another way, Jaylen was a bench player his first season and a solid starter his next two years (14ppg 28mpg). Ray arrived as a start and gave us maybe 4 star level seasons before dropping to solid starter level in his final year. So 4 star seasons for Ray vs 6 for Jaylen. It is closer. Also the All-Star selections 3 vs 4. Rather than overall years on the team which is 5 vs 10. I do think the number of star level seasons is a better barometer for how close this matchup is.

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Ray the superior offensive player. One of the greatest jump-shooters off all time. Far more efficient offensively. Jaylen having the advantage in one-on-one defense being far superior of Ray.

Ray was not a superior offensive player for the Celtics. I don't really think not that's even close.

He averaged like 16.7 points for the Cs. Brown is over 23.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

It's got to be Jrue or Zinger over Antoine. I love Antoine, but he's not a winner like those guys.

What makes Zinger more of a winner than Antoine?

I think he was instrumental to winning a championship.

[Who]

It's got to be Jrue or Zinger over Antoine. I love Antoine, but he's not a winner like those guys.

What makes Zinger more of a winner than Antoine?

I think he was instrumental to winning a championship.

2024 Playoffs = 7 games played, 12 games missed

21mpg 7.7ppg 4.6rpg 0.9bpg 0.8spg 0.7apg 61.7% TS

Not instrumental.

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Antoine Walker won a title in 2006 with Miami. He played 37.5mpg in the playoffs. He was their 2nd leading scorer in the Finals (13.8ppg Finals, 13.3ppg playoffs). He was inefficient offensively (50% TS) but his perimeter skills (shooting, passing, ball-handling) were key to opening up the paint for both D-Wade and Shaq on that Miami team which is why he played so many minutes and why he played more minutes than Udonis Haslem in the playoffs.

Similar to why Robert Horry was so valuable next to Shaq in the three-peat Lakers. Opening up the floor for Shaq and Kobe to attack. Especially late in games.

Shaq never won a title without a player like Horry / Toine to give him that extra spacing.

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Toine played a bigger role in a title winning side than Porzingis did. Toine does not deserve to be called "not a winner". He won games here in Boston with average teams and won a title as a 4th/5th best player late in his career in Miami as Porzingis did and played a bigger role on that title winning team than Porzingis did here.

[slamtheking]

It's got to be Jrue or Zinger over Antoine. I love Antoine, but he's not a winner like those guys.

What makes Zinger more of a winner than Antoine?

I think he was instrumental to winning a championship.

he was a non-factor in the playoffs.  Antoine was huge in that comeback win in the series against the Nets.  really a shame that team couldn't use that win to springboard to win the series.  seeing Antoine with a chance to win a title for the C's against the Lakers would have been a performance for the ages.