NBA Teams Looking Into New Ways To Prevent Teams From Tanking

[Moranis]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

[slamtheking]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

[Goldstar88]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

[Moranis]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

[keevsnick]

I do find the "can't pick top 4 two years in a row" thing sort of interesting, since it would actually do very little to fix anything THIS YEAR. The top 4 picks last year were....

Dallas (Injured, but not really tanking).
Spurs (Not Tanking)
76ers (Not Tanking)
Hornets (Sort of tanking, but not the worst).

So in other words this rule would do nothing to stop the tanking from teams like Washington, Brooklyn, Ind ect. 

I also very much islike the "can't pick top 4 two years in a row." So what happens if you get the #1 pick in a draft with..... let's say Zachary Risacher as the #1 pick. You just can't get Cooper Flagg next year? How is that fair, it makes the year you happen to be bad in too important. I'd be fine with "can't pick top 4 THREE years in a row" or "can't pick #1 two years in a row."

[Goldstar88]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

The kings have had plenty of top picks and they miss 80% of the time. That?s on management.

2022: #4 overall (K. Murray)

2021: #9 overall (Mitchell)

2018: #2 overall (Bagley)

2017: #5 overall (Fox)

2015: #6 overall (Cauley-Stein)

2014: #8 overall (Staukas)

2013:  #7 overall (McLemore)

2012: #5 Overall (Thomas Robinson)

2010 #5 overall (Cousins)

2009 #4overall (Tyreek Evans)

[slamtheking]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

the Kings were the example you used, not me.  provide an example of a team you think IS the right type to look at.  you like moving the goalposts every time there's pushback on your ideas. 

you can point to any team in this league and they'll either be blatant tankers who've had multiple shots at top draft picks and either done poorly or well or the 'mid-lottery' teams that can have the same things said about them. 

bottom line, restrict the number of consecutive attempts at the brass ring.  if a team sucks in a year where the top player is a Kenyon Martin/Michael Olowakandi/etc...  so be it.  if they suck and the top player is Lebron, so be it. 

Take a look at your prized team Philly.  Look at how many cracks they've had at top players during their 'Process'.  you can sit there and bemoan "oh, the talent isn't as good as when they're weren't in the Process" which is total crap.  They had a rookie of the year in MCW (a very weak rookie class that year) who they traded to get worse.  they end up in drafts getting Ben Simmons (considered a generational talent but passing on Jaylen Brown and Brandon Ingram), Joel Embiid falling into their laps but taking Elfrid Payton in that same draft (while passing on Jokic, Mcdermott, Saric, Lavine, Nurkic, Capela and several other better players), Jahlil Okafor (while passing on Porzingis, Myles Turner and Devin Booker to name a few), Markelle Fultz (while passing on Ball and Jayson Tatum), Mikal Bridges (eventually traded and passing on SGA).

That's just several of their drafts.  again, no sympathy if they were barred from making high picks every other year or every 2 years.  hell, it might improve their drafting based on how they picked and how much talent was still on the board.

no sympathy for teams that want to rely on tanking for high draft picks getting blocked from an every-year shot at it.

[hwangjini_1]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

make that three years in a row and top 5 and you have my vote. (yes, no major changes, but it does make the "tanking bar" a bit further.

[Muzzy66]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

To be fair, the kings had two absolute studs in Tyreke Evans and Demarcus Cousins, and they completely screwed it up.

Tyreke was drafted in 2010/11 and had one of the best rookie seasons I've ever seen (20.1 points, 5.3 reb, 5.8 ast, 1.5 stl, 46% FG) and was a special talent who could play three positions.

Cousins was drafted the following year in 2011/12 and averaged 14.1 pts, 2.5 ast, 8.6 reb as a rookie. 

A team that had any half competent management and coaching would have turned those two guys into an elite duo, but with the Kings' poor management failing to guide them, they became two of the biggest wastes of talent the league has seen. 

Even with the Kings horrible lack of guidance Cousins still developed into an elite big - over a four year stretch (from 2015-18) he averaged 26 points. 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks on 46%/35%/85% shooting.  Imagine how good he could have become if he was drafted to a respected franchise like the Spurs or the Celtics who actually gave the man a little guidance from a young age?

[Moranis]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

The kings have had plenty of top picks and they miss 80% of the time. That?s on management.

2022: #4 overall (K. Murray)

2021: #9 overall (Mitchell)

2018: #2 overall (Bagley)

2017: #5 overall (Fox)

2015: #6 overall (Cauley-Stein)

2014: #8 overall (Staukas)

2013:  #7 overall (McLemore)

2012: #5 Overall (Thomas Robinson)

2010 #5 overall (Cousins)

2009 #4overall (Tyreek Evans)

but that is the point.  How many even all star level players are there.  That is exactly what will happen to a whole bunch of teams of you don't let them pick in the top 4 multiple years in a row because they Kings haven't done that.  Instead of just 1 Kjngs you will have 5 or 6 and they will mostly be the same 5 or 6 every year that won't land free agents and won't ever get better.  You will basically make franchises become the Kings.  And sure had the Kings taken Doncic instead of Bagley they might not be the Kings, but even good drafting teams miss on players time to time.  If they miss in their 1 year they get a top pick, they will be bad for a decade. 

[Moranis]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

To be fair, the kings had two absolute studs in Tyreke Evans and Demarcus Cousins, and they completely screwed it up.

Tyreke was drafted in 2010/11 and had one of the best rookie seasons I've ever seen (20.1 points, 5.3 reb, 5.8 ast, 1.5 stl, 46% FG) and was a special talent who could play three positions.

Cousins was drafted the following year in 2011/12 and averaged 14.1 pts, 2.5 ast, 8.6 reb as a rookie. 

A team that had any half competent management and coaching would have turned those two guys into an elite duo, but with the Kings' poor management failing to guide them, they became two of the biggest wastes of talent the league has seen. 

Even with the Kings horrible lack of guidance Cousins still developed into an elite big - over a four year stretch (from 2015-18) he averaged 26 points. 12 rebounds, 4 assists, 1.5 steals and 1.5 blocks on 46%/35%/85% shooting.  Imagine how good he could have become if he was drafted to a respected franchise like the Spurs or the Celtics who actually gave the man a little guidance from a young age?

Tyreke's best season was his rookie year.  Similar to MCW, Ben Simmons, and several othwr players that enter the league on fire and never get better. He was never a stud. Just a high volume rookie on a bad team that had the ball in his hand a lot. 

Cousins was a solid all star level player and the Kings were decent with him, but he wasn't ever healthy enough or frankly good enough to really build into more than that.  It is a shame he got hurt (like always) in New Orleans as that team might have done something with him, AD, Jrue, Mirotic, and Rondo.

[Vermont Green]

I think that the lottery has largely fixed the primary tanking issues.  Winning or losing a couple of games at the end of the season is not going to change your draft position or odds all that much, just in terms of the lottery.  If you are tanking to get a few more ping pong balls, good luck with that.  More recently, the issues seems to be protecting traded picks.  Trying to avoid losing a first round pick due to position, a pick that may turn into two seconds or something like that.  That seems to be where the blatant tanking is happening.  Maybe you have to restrict protecting traded lottery picks somehow; I am not sure of the exact details, but there are probably a few ways you could do this, possibly as simple as you can't protect lottery picks.

As to drafting, it is a crap shoot for every team, not just teams like SAC.  Every generation, there are a few sure thing players, like Lebron or Flagg, true consensus #1, where it is almost certain that the player is going to be a stud.  Look at the top players right now, SGA, Jokic, Giannis, Tatum, none of these guys were sure thing #1 picks.  Durant, Curry, weren't #1 picks.  From a historical probability standpoint, tanking for more ping pong balls has a very low probability of having the team end up with a better player, due to the uncertainty of the lottery and the uncertainty of drafting.  I don't like the idea of limiting how many seasons in a row you can be in the top 4 or whatever.  The lottery is going to take care of that.

[slamtheking]

Something along these lines.

No longer allowing a team to draft in the top four two years in a row.

so bad teams never get better and end up like the Kings forever. 

The best solution is if the league thinks a team is tanking is to fine the ever loving he'll out of them for conduct detrimental to the sport. You start hitting the owners pocketbook and they will listen.  Only thing they will listen to honestly.

and the problem with badly managed teams like the Kings staying bad is what?  They've been bad for about 20 years regardless of how many cracks at the lottery they've had.  They've gotten good players in the draft and none of them are left on the team because they've been dealt away.  that's on their mismanagement.  why should the league coddle incompetence?

Exactly. That?s a management issue.

No, the Kings are a mostly mid lottery team.  Rarely bad enough to get a top tier pick, so they never get the talent to move out of no man's land.  That is the perfect example of what will happen to bad teams that are restricted from actually getting the talent needed to not be bad.  Now sure they've also been poorly managed and took Bagley instead of Doncic the one time they've had a top 3 pick since 1991 (when they had the 4th pick recently they took Murray which is actually a solid pick, he just isnt good enough of a player to move the needle).  But poorly managed isnt tanking.  If the goal is to end tanking then that isnt the right type of team to look at.

The kings have had plenty of top picks and they miss 80% of the time. That?s on management.

2022: #4 overall (K. Murray)

2021: #9 overall (Mitchell)

2018: #2 overall (Bagley)

2017: #5 overall (Fox)

2015: #6 overall (Cauley-Stein)

2014: #8 overall (Staukas)

2013:  #7 overall (McLemore)

2012: #5 Overall (Thomas Robinson)

2010 #5 overall (Cousins)

2009 #4overall (Tyreek Evans)

but that is the point.  How many even all star level players are there.  That is exactly what will happen to a whole bunch of teams of you don't let them pick in the top 4 multiple years in a row because they Kings haven't done that.  Instead of just 1 Kjngs you will have 5 or 6 and they will mostly be the same 5 or 6 every year that won't land free agents and won't ever get better.  You will basically make franchises become the Kings.  And sure had the Kings taken Doncic instead of Bagley they might not be the Kings, but even good drafting teams miss on players time to time.  If they miss in their 1 year they get a top pick, they will be bad for a decade.

and you continue to make the point that bad management shouldn't be continually rewarded.  In all those drafts you can find a better player that they passed on.