Terry Rozier & Others Arrested in Alleged Gambling Cases

[moiso]

I read somewhere this was an illegal gambling poker ring, is that not true?

Yeah with a table that could be seen through with x ray technology.

[SparzWizard]

Terry Rozier went 0 for 10 from downtown in Game 7 of the 2018 ECF.

Boston lost 87-79 to Cleveland in Game 7. Had Rozier made just three of those, the Celtics would had won and move onto the NBA finals.

Looks like he already had a head start, point shaving and all!!

[Atzar]

Does anybody actually have faith in the integrity of this league at this point?  When do fans check out over this stuff?  There's smoke cloud after smoke cloud in nearly every aspect of its operation.  Football and baseball aren't any better but for the sake of concision I'll stick to basketball here.

We're seeing a rash of gambling scandals that I suspect is only beginning.  At the same time fans literally cannot get away from nonstop gambling ads and discourse pervading every inch of coverage about this sport.  I'm listening to a PrizePicks commercial on my TV as I type this.

They pinned the Donaghy mess on one man when nobody actually believes that he was a lone, rogue operator.  Officiating remains a point of contention.  A few years ago in the playoffs against the Bucks, when Giannis had his sixth foul overturned upon review, Steve Javie bluntly stated that refs would put their thumb on the scale to ensure that certain key players don't foul out.  I never understood why that statement never drew attention.  It's a blatant admission that they are told to influence the course of games!  Do you really think they stop there?

The Clippers are in a mess for cap circumvention.  I highly suspect that everybody does that stuff and they're just the ones who were sloppy enough to get caught. 

Maybe the lottery process has coincidence after coincidence honestly, or maybe they put their thumb on that scale too. 

I want to like this sport, but it's getting more and more difficult to ignore all this stuff.

[Phantom255x]

Different sport and I'm still going to say it, even if others disagree and they have the right to

Ohtani was also guilty and his translator was the ultimate fall guy, but the MLB couldn't lose a talent like Ohtani. Even Windhorst is saying the NBA tried to cover a lot of it up but there seems to be so many events and players involved now and the lists could grow.

Also, the Guardians pitchers in MLB were identified and "taken care of" pretty quickly as well. Still puzzling to me Ohtani walked scot-free from that whole thing but sorry no one can convince me he wasn't involved and didn't know.

[libermaniac]

I don?t get the illegal gambling poker ring thing? Aren?t all non-licensed poker games illegal? So why is it worse to cheat while doing something illegal in the first place? I get how it?s morally worse but why is the cheating being reported as the crime? Am I missing something?

[Roy H.]

I don?t get the illegal gambling poker ring thing? Aren?t all non-licensed poker games illegal? So why is it worse to cheat while doing something illegal in the first place? I get how it?s morally worse but why is the cheating being reported as the crime? Am I missing something?

The slanted games add an element of fraud and theft of tens of millions of dollars.

By analogy, running an unlicensed bar is illegal.  Stealing the patrons' credit card info while they're in that illegal bar is worse.

[radiohead]

The NBA has a serious credibility problem in its hands right now. This plus increasing the subscription fees to watch the games may lead to some fans to just unfollow the league. I?m interested to see how the league responds to this scandal.

[SparzWizard]

Different sport and I'm still going to say it, even if others disagree and they have the right to

Ohtani was also guilty and his translator was the ultimate fall guy, but the MLB couldn't lose a talent like Ohtani. Even Windhorst is saying the NBA tried to cover a lot of it up but there seems to be so many events and players involved now and the lists could grow.

Also, the Guardians pitchers in MLB were identified and "taken care of" pretty quickly as well. Still puzzling to me Ohtani walked scot-free from that whole thing but sorry no one can convince me he wasn't involved and didn't know.

Big market cities attract money. Big names also attract money. They don't want Ohtani to be in any trouble.

But, I guess when it comes to Tom Brady and New England (or any Boston teams), the league can lay hammers left and right on 'em. Just look at that lousy Deflategate.

Atzar also brought up a good point too about the NBA lottery balls. Dallas trading Luka to the Lakers, and just when Nico Harrison and the Mavs organization were getting crucified by Mavs fans and threat of boycotting, suddenly, they win Cooper Flagg the No. 1 pick three months later? That's insane. It ain't the first time either with these lottery balls. The Cavs, after LeBron left for Miami, won three #1 picks in four years (Kyrie Irving, Anthony Bennett, Andrew Wiggins). Bennett didn't work out, but the following year they got Wiggins and flipped it for Kevin Love and forming a Big 3, eventually leading to an NBA championship. I don't think these are conspiracies at all now...these were all set up.

[Moranis]

I don?t get the illegal gambling poker ring thing? Aren?t all non-licensed poker games illegal? So why is it worse to cheat while doing something illegal in the first place? I get how it?s morally worse but why is the cheating being reported as the crime? Am I missing something?

Playing poker for money is absolutely not illegal.  That is why you can have a poker night with friends and family without issue.  An illegal poker game is one in which an unlicensed purveyor takes a cut.  So if the house gets a percentage it is illegal unless they are licensed (like casinos in some states).  What Billups is accused of is much much worse.  It is straight up theft. 

Molly's Game is a pretty solid movie that is based on the life of Molly Bloom.  She started off running a perfectly legal game (in which she made money through tips), but then she started taking the cut and ended up going to jail.  Jessica Chastain plays Molly (Idris Elba, Kevin Costner, Michael Cera among others co-star).  It is a pretty fascinating look at the poker industry and the movie is well done and worth watching.

[ozgod]

This is just a gut feel, but I think it is just the tip of the iceberg. There?s gonna be some nervous NBA players in the next six months waiting to see if the feds will be knocking on their door.

[greg683x]

This is just a gut feel, but I think it is just the tip of the iceberg. There?s gonna be some nervous NBA players in the next six months waiting to see if the feds will be knocking on their door.

The only reason I?d lean the other way on this is that if what rozier was doing was rampant in the NBA, these gambling companies would be doing a lot of squawking about it.  All the times I can remember players getting caught up in this stuff, there are reports that gambling companies on alerting the league to possible fraud bc they?re the ones losing millions because of this.  Even with Rozier, he?s been getting talked about for at least a year, there was just no proof directly to him.  I think there were even reports at one time about odd bets being place in Lebrons games, to which now we?re hearing the reports at Damon Jones.

I think if this was a league wide mess we?d be hearing a lot more rumblings about odd betting swings in the media.

But this is just my guess as well

[Kernewek]

This is just a gut feel, but I think it is just the tip of the iceberg. There?s gonna be some nervous NBA players in the next six months waiting to see if the feds will be knocking on their door.

The only reason I?d lean the other way on this is that if what rozier was doing was rampant in the NBA, these gambling companies would be doing a lot of squawking about it.  All the times I can remember players getting caught up in this stuff, there are reports that gambling companies on alerting the league to possible fraud bc they?re the ones losing millions because of this.  Even with Rozier, he?s been getting talked about for at least a year, there was just no proof directly to him.  I think there were even reports at one time about odd bets being place in Lebrons games, to which now we?re hearing the reports at Damon Jones.

I think if this was a league wide mess we?d be hearing a lot more rumblings about odd betting swings in the media.

But this is just my guess as well

I tend to agree - although this is going to be a significant case, regardless of what we ultimately find out (and what we don't, I suppose). I don't think the NBA lottery is 'rigged' in the same way, sometimes real life delivers stories that are too implausible to be fiction.

Related - I don't remember which player was going on about this on a podcast, but there are definitely some guys in the league who don't see the harm in telling their friends to bet a certain way (e.g. take the under) and then play in a way to hit that bet. There's no real way to regulate that sort of behaviour if you want these guys to have any expectation of personal privacy.

[greg683x]

This is just a gut feel, but I think it is just the tip of the iceberg. There?s gonna be some nervous NBA players in the next six months waiting to see if the feds will be knocking on their door.

The only reason I?d lean the other way on this is that if what rozier was doing was rampant in the NBA, these gambling companies would be doing a lot of squawking about it.  All the times I can remember players getting caught up in this stuff, there are reports that gambling companies on alerting the league to possible fraud bc they?re the ones losing millions because of this.  Even with Rozier, he?s been getting talked about for at least a year, there was just no proof directly to him.  I think there were even reports at one time about odd bets being place in Lebrons games, to which now we?re hearing the reports at Damon Jones.

I think if this was a league wide mess we?d be hearing a lot more rumblings about odd betting swings in the media.

But this is just my guess as well

I tend to agree - although this is going to be a significant case, regardless of what we ultimately find out (and what we don't, I suppose). I don't think the NBA lottery is 'rigged' in the same way, sometimes real life delivers stories that are too implausible to be fiction.

Related - I don't remember which player was going on about this on a podcast, but there are definitely some guys in the league who don't see the harm in telling their friends to bet a certain way (e.g. take the under) and then play in a way to hit that bet. There's no real way to regulate that sort of behaviour if you want these guys to have any expectation of personal privacy.

Yeah I suppose It?s kind of like trying to regulate collusion between players about teaming up before their free agents.

As far as players not seeing the harm in it, I guess it depends on what bets and type of bets they?re telling friends to make.  There?s a ton of harm in telling friends to bet my unders on player props and then removing yourself from the game.  But if SGA is telling friends to bet on the thunder to cover bc they?re coaches and players feel like they found a huge loophole in the opponents defense that they?re gonna exploit, well I guess that?s more subjective.

Personally I feel like it?s a hard line that should not be crossed, and having strict boundaries in conversations with your friends and families is part of the cost making millions in a pro sport that?s part of the gambling world.

[Vermont Green]

Scamming on prop bets, like Rozier appears to have done, I would think is pretty easy to catch.  If suddenly there is an uptick in action on Terry Rozier going under 15 points (or whatever) the books can see that.  Maybe normally, there is $10,000 being bet on Rozier props but then suddenly, for one game, it jumps to $300,000 and in that same game, Rozier limps off the court in the 1st quarter with a mysterious injury.  That is going to stand out to the books.

So for this reason, I don't think this type of scamming is rampant.  Betting on the outcome of games, over/under, point spreads, would also have the same issue.  If there was a sudden increase in the action on a particular team or ref or something, it would show up.  And I think you would need to have more people involved.  Can one ref for example, make sure a team wins by a certain number of points?  Can one player?  Seems harder to do than the individual prop betting manipulation.  One player can make sure he doesn't get more than 5 Rebs or whatever.  Or limp off the court in the 1st quarter.

[Roy H.]

Scamming on prop bets, like Rozier appears to have done, I would think is pretty easy to catch.  If suddenly there is an uptick in action on Terry Rozier going under 15 points (or whatever) the books can see that.  Maybe normally, there is $10,000 being bet on Rozier props but then suddenly, for one game, it jumps to $300,000 and in that same game, Rozier limps off the court in the 1st quarter with a mysterious injury.  That is going to stand out to the books.

So for this reason, I don't think this type of scamming is rampant.  Betting on the outcome of games, over/under, point spreads, would also have the same issue.  If there was a sudden increase in the action on a particular team or ref or something, it would show up.  And I think you would need to have more people involved.  Can one ref for example, make sure a team wins by a certain number of points?  Can one player?  Seems harder to do than the individual prop betting manipulation.  One player can make sure he doesn't get more than 5 Rebs or whatever.  Or limp off the court in the 1st quarter.

I get your logic, but I'd point to Tim Donaghty.  He cheated for years without being caught.