Ben Simmons?

[Neurotic Guy]

What have people heard over the past few years about Simmons as a teammate?  Or about Simmons and his dedication to the game or work ethic?  Or his mental health/ emotional well-being?

I think one dynamic that could change things psychologically for Simmons is that for the first time in a long time he won?t be making far more money than he?s worth.  Who knows how that might impact him, but maybe takes some pressure of expectations off the table.

I?d be curious to see him surrounded by players who seem to have solid work ethic - in particular DW, JB, PP, JT.   He may have had good work culture in his other stops - idk.

I?m not even sure he is that bad of a teammate or even if it is a question with his work ethic, though I do question that a bit. I am much more concerned about his back. I believe he has had at least 2 back surgeries and I don?t think he will ever be the same. Plus I believe he has had some knee problems as well. I don?t think his body can hold up for large minutes anymore and he needed to take lots of maintenance days off last year for his back.

In addition to Embid's frustration, there were also reports his Nets coaches and players were frustrated with him and his passion "According to multiple sources with direct knowledge of the situation, the frustration surrounding Simmons had been building in recent weeks within the organization. The coaching staff and players have been concerned about his availability and level of play, with some questioning his passion for the game, those sources said. But even when he did play, Simmons? struggles in his first nine games this season were part of the Nets frustration as well."

https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-nets-are-reportedly-already-frustrated-with-ben-simmons-161706149.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuYmluZy5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAEixi78tgsHihS-IWki7yiEFHcjqhbX5UaVQi40gSYc2vFqEmBM27SU2dABpPOG_GYeXekL0JEraNkzhJRIDxKeCJXB7Sn4vUJTWksSQQXxmK14DJYUgSYEnaiMvG5JZKqjOO2t59ZuzxjKrm1h8lBo9FPyEYHCKONQLGP2OZ_W6

I am totally fine giving him a minimum. I certainly believe he has been humbled, and I did not see any complaints from when he was on the Clippers. I think the expectation of coaches and teammates is a lot different from a  max contract guy compared to a minimum salary guy. Plus if he does act up or annoy anyone they can cut him.

Not to be a Ben Simmons apologist but I don?t think Joel Embiid is a credible source for team fit or vibes since he?s very difficult to play with if you?re not a 3 point shooting specialist. The Nets were also coming off the Philly situation where he was clearly broken.

I think if Simmons played with Tatum from the start of his career instead of Embiid he would have been able to maintain the success he had in his first several years.

That totally glosses over his back problems though. Just being around Tatum doesn?t mean that goes away. He has legitimate back problems that doesn?t make him nearly the athlete he used to be. As a result that greatly diminishes his impact on the court.

I guess it confuses me a little that a guy with back problems, a history of lack of passion for the game, some mental health concerns, and has made more than 200M is wanting to continue playing for what probably will be vet minimum.  I guess relative to most of us vet minimum is a lot of money but given all the above, and especially the recurring back issues - why not get out now?  Obviously he has his reasons but from an outside observer looking at the known or presumed factors, got to think getting out makes some sense.

[Celtics4ever]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

[JBcat]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

For someone who has had back problems as well as used to have Simmons on my fantasy dynasty team lol I kept a close eye on what he went through. He had surgery in 2022 to address a herniated disc, and another in 2024 a microscopic partial discectomy which doctors have said he can continue playing but he won?t ever be the athlete he once was. So not everyone goes through this. I think it has more to do with his back and mental health issues than a lack of passion of the game. I think he still loves playing otherwise he would have just hang up right now. It is more of a buy low medium return.

[Celtics4ever]

My back is so bad, it fused together naturally on three vertebrae due to ankylosing spondylitis and I have multiple herniated discs.  This happened way after I quit playing.   As bad as my back it generally feels better when I get moving around but prolonged standing on concrete kills my back.
But my point is some guys will go with the back stuff and some won't.  Simmons won't and everyone has a different tolerance to pain.  I agree it can be game changing and career ending.

I don't think he has a big passion for the game either.  My reason for this is he refused to put in work to develop his three point shot or his free throws.   A guy should show some improvement over time.  Guy who want to dominate fix the weak spots in their game.   He did not do this prior to the back injuries.  He has not shot two three's after leaving Philly.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/simmobe01.html

His best shooting is within 0-3 and that has not really changed in 7 years

[lbgreen33]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

[lbgreen33]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

You bashed ESPN to me before, seeing I started this post, I will point out how ridiculous you sound when you do it! I hope you know that ESPN is a company and not person, correct? Like any company, it is made up of employees, there are some really good people there. But, when you broadly put down a whole company that makes no sense. ESPN is a company of people! Now, corporations on the other hand all suck! Let?s face it, any public company is out to make money, so they all suck! They care about the stock price, not the employees. That goes for all companies. But, saying ESPN sucks is just silly. You can hate a reporter, or a story, but you don?t know everyone that works there, so how can you hate ESPN! Just silly

I apologize if that came off harsh, but, sometimes it's easy to put down an entity, bet there are always people behind it. Some good I am sure some bad, but they are someone's family. It is hard when you have people you really care about lumped into a simple company name. But, a company doesn't breath, a company doesn't cry when it gets hurt, the people do. At the end of the day, that is all we are, just people doing the best we can.

[boscel33]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

You bashed ESPN to me before, seeing I started this post, I will point out how ridiculous you sound when you do it! I hope you know that ESPN is a company and not person, correct? Like any company, it is made up of employees, there are some really good people there. But, when you broadly put down a whole company that makes no sense. ESPN is a company of people! Now, corporations on the other hand all suck! Let?s face it, any public company is out to make money, so they all suck! They care about the stock price, not the employees. That goes for all companies. But, saying ESPN sucks is just silly. You can hate a reporter, or a story, but you don?t know everyone that works there, so how can you hate ESPN! Just silly

I apologize if that came off harsh, but, sometimes it's easy to put down an entity, bet there are always people behind it. Some good I am sure some bad, but they are someone's family. It is hard when you have people you really care about lumped into a simple company name. But, a company doesn't breath, a company doesn't cry when it gets hurt, the people do. At the end of the day, that is all we are, just people doing the best we can.

Hey, some of my posts where I reference B/R are bashed like crazy because of B/R.  Personally, I like reading it, but obviously others dont.

[Neurotic Guy]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

You bashed ESPN to me before, seeing I started this post, I will point out how ridiculous you sound when you do it! I hope you know that ESPN is a company and not person, correct? Like any company, it is made up of employees, there are some really good people there. But, when you broadly put down a whole company that makes no sense. ESPN is a company of people! Now, corporations on the other hand all suck! Let?s face it, any public company is out to make money, so they all suck! They care about the stock price, not the employees. That goes for all companies. But, saying ESPN sucks is just silly. You can hate a reporter, or a story, but you don?t know everyone that works there, so how can you hate ESPN! Just silly

I apologize if that came off harsh, but, sometimes it's easy to put down an entity, bet there are always people behind it. Some good I am sure some bad, but they are someone's family. It is hard when you have people you really care about lumped into a simple company name. But, a company doesn't breath, a company doesn't cry when it gets hurt, the people do. At the end of the day, that is all we are, just people doing the best we can.

I honestly don?t know much about ESPN generally or ESPN personalities individually, but I always think we?re having a clearer conversation, whether sports or politics, when we can be specific about actual comments and about specific individuals rather that using generalizations, stereotypes, or assumptions.  That said, efficiency in making points on a blog often does lead to some generalizing.

[lbgreen33]

I would take a flyer as long as he plays PF or C for us, no PG, he will not agree to this request.   I think some of his injury problems are because he is soft and avoids pressure.  Everyone has some back issues if you're a pro it comes with all the wear and tear.   Some push through it and some take advantage of it.

He was way over hyped to his talent level and the league promoted with their crony ESPN.   He is soft as wet toilet paper and generally does not play to his strength.   Still he has size and nice athleticism.   Buy low.

You bashed ESPN to me before, seeing I started this post, I will point out how ridiculous you sound when you do it! I hope you know that ESPN is a company and not person, correct? Like any company, it is made up of employees, there are some really good people there. But, when you broadly put down a whole company that makes no sense. ESPN is a company of people! Now, corporations on the other hand all suck! Let?s face it, any public company is out to make money, so they all suck! They care about the stock price, not the employees. That goes for all companies. But, saying ESPN sucks is just silly. You can hate a reporter, or a story, but you don?t know everyone that works there, so how can you hate ESPN! Just silly

I apologize if that came off harsh, but, sometimes it's easy to put down an entity, bet there are always people behind it. Some good I am sure some bad, but they are someone's family. It is hard when you have people you really care about lumped into a simple company name. But, a company doesn't breath, a company doesn't cry when it gets hurt, the people do. At the end of the day, that is all we are, just people doing the best we can.

I honestly don?t know much about ESPN generally or ESPN personalities individually, but I always think we?re having a clearer conversation, whether sports or politics, when we can be specific about actual comments and about specific individuals rather that using generalizations, stereotypes, or assumptions.  That said, efficiency in making points on a blog often does lead to some generalizing.

Well said and true. I really do enjoy reading this forum!

[radiohead]

The Ben Simmons sweepstakes is taking longer than expected 😅

[ozgod]

I'm not getting my hopes up. I know the only fireworks in this offseason have been ones we don't want, but I think this guy will be worse than useless in terms of production even if we get him for vet min. The only saving grace is that he should at least outperform a vet min contract. Anything more than that would be a reach.

And if you somehow convince yourself he could be a difference maker, keep in mind we are $1,938,785 below the second apron right now after Davison was waived. Signing Simmons to a vet min - which for him, given he has 7 years of experience, will be around $3m at least (the actual number doesn't matter as long as it's over $1.938k). which would put us back over the 2nd apron with all those restrictions on roster building:

Includes all first-apron penalties
Cannot have access to the MLE in free agency or absorbing contracts.
Cannot trade first-round picks from seven years out.
Cannot use trade exceptions from previous years.
Cannot use cash in trades.
First round pick moves straight to the end of the first round if the team stays in the second apron for three of five years.

Do we really want to go back into the second apron after we traded away KP and Jrue to get under it, for the sake of getting Ben Simmons so we can  have an exciting shiny toy? I think not. We would have to waive another of the bottom feeders we have that I highlighted to create the space under the 2nd apron to accommodate him. Maybe he would be better than X? X would be  the guy at risk if this were to happen, but his salary is guaranteed, though $2.5m is peanuts in the grand scheme of things. We could waive our presumed starter, Q, his salary of $2.3m isn't guaranteed till Oct 25.

Unless...Brad executes a trade, maybe with Simons, that somehow carves out the $1.2m we need to stay under the second apron while signing our savior...get rid of Simons to get an extra m in Simmons 

Here's the numbers that lead to the uncomfortable math. Apologies if it comes out small, it's the only way I could get all the data in one screenshot, you can click on it to make it bigger. If you want to know where the raw salary and cap data came from it's from www.spotrac.com.

(click to enlarge and scroll to the right)

[boscel33]

The Ben Simmons sweepstakes is taking longer than expected 😅

Are they waiting for the Claxton shoe to drop?  Simons to the Nets for Claxton in a straight up deal?

[Vermont Green]

I am not sure that the Celtics are in any hurry, nor should they be.  As others have said, Simmons would put us back over the 2nd apron.  Not necessarily the end of the world, I am sure that there will be other deals made.  My guess is that they have other things in the works.

[lbgreen33]

I am not sure that the Celtics are in any hurry, nor should they be.  As others have said, Simmons would put us back over the 2nd apron.  Not necessarily the end of the world, I am sure that there will be other deals made.  My guess is that they have other things in the works.

I agree with this. I don?t doubt that Brad is kicking the tires here. But, there is no hurry. The funny thing is, I won?t be surprised if he becomes a Celtic and I won?t be surprised if he doesn?t.